The Debates!

[Soxbadger]

While true, I personally don't see a problem with flip-flopping...as a matter of fact, I think it's a good trait for a candidate to have, and every politician SHOULD have this trait. It shows that they can/will change their minds if they feel they're wrong, instead of staying the course ala GW Bush and many others. A lot of people have a problem with flip flopping, and I think that's a mistake, it's one of those negatives that isn't really a negative if you look at it objectivly. There is nothing wrong with changing your position/mind on something, especially in politics as different times call for different strategies/measures, and just because it doesn't suit your initial vision doesn't mean you shouldn't change it just so you aren't known as a flip-flopper.

 

Im fine with a politician changing their mind. But that involves admitting that you once had a different plan and now at the last minute decided you are going with a new plan that only you knew about.

 

You may win a debate like that, but in my opinion, it shows you are untrustworthy. How can I trust a word Romney said, when tomorrow when pressed he may come up with a different plan, that is entirely different, but he knows itll work because no one else has tried it before.

 

If I was Obama's camp id be gleeful, way to early for this type of stunt. This was a 3rd debate move, when Obama had no chance of retaliating.

[Y2HH]

What do you call it when Romney implemented Romneycare in MA, then he was against it in the primaries, then he said he would repeal all of Obamacare, then he said he wouldn't repeal all of it then he said last night he would repeal all of it? I don't know about you but I call that a bulls***ter who will tell that particular audience what it wants to hear or do you think Romney finds out something new about Obamacare that makes him change his mind back and forth?

 

I bet he'll say he won't repeal all of Obamacare in his next interview, SMH.

 

I think Romney's point is that it should be up to the individual states to determine if "Romney/Obamacare" is what's good for them, instead of it being a national law. While I disagree with him on this point when it comes to healthcare, his point is that what may be good for one state isn't necessarily good for another...and it's a valid opinion to have, whether I agree with it or not.

[Y2HH]

Im fine with a politician changing their mind. But that involves admitting that you once had a different plan and now at the last minute decided you are going with a new plan that only you knew about.

 

You may win a debate like that, but in my opinion, it shows you are untrustworthy. How can I trust a word Romney said, when tomorrow when pressed he may come up with a different plan, that is entirely different, but he knows itll work because no one else has tried it before.

 

If I was Obama's camp id be gleeful, way to early for this type of stunt. This was a 3rd debate move, when Obama had no chance of retaliating.

 

By that rational, Ol' "staying the course" GW Bush *was* trustworthy?!

 

I don't care how you or anyone else spins flip-flopping...I think any politician that's never flip flopped, regardless of what reason you have for it, is a blinders wearing douche that's ok with driving into a wall despite seeing it coming...just so they can say, "Hey...at least I'm not a flip-flopper!"

[Jake]

This is so full of crap, it's not even funny.

 

I love how you point to Romney "loving to fire poor people while at Bain", but you have no problem whatsoever with Obama appointing people like Jeffrey Immelt (CEO of GE) to his "US jobs creation council", all the while GE (under the watchful eye of Immelt) is outsourcing jobs to foreign countries for cheap labor and firing "poor people" the same exact f***ing way Bain Capital did.

 

Obama said he'd create 50 billion trillion new jobs, too...and did little to explain how that would happen other than "we're going to spend a bunch of money re-building roads and bridges that we seem to be re-building every f***ing year anyway".

 

Both of them are full of s***...it's just funny how you think only one of them is.

 

You keep saying that and ignoring the fact that that is an advisory board that has no real legal power. I would want to know, from the outsourcer, what things might cause outsourcers to stop outsourcing. Now say that fives time fast.

 

It's not the same as having a President who had some questionable business practices. I really wouldn't care how much money the guy made if he wasn't so arrogant about it -- the 47% business, etc. is just a confirmation of what makes so many people not trust rich businessmen.

[Soxbadger]

By that rational, Ol' "staying the course" GW Bush *was* trustworthy?!

 

I don't care how you or anyone else spins flip-flopping...I think any politician that's never flip flopped, regardless of what reason you have for it, is a blinders wearing douche that's ok with driving into a wall despite seeing it coming...just so they can say, "Hey...at least I'm not a flip-flopper!"

 

I never said anything like that. I think one of the best things any President ever has done was when GH raised taxes because he thought it was in the best interest of the country.

 

That makes sense.

 

Changing your position to win political points in a "gotchya" moment is completely different. Id have to see the transcript, but I dont believe Romney ever said why he changed his position or what new factors caused him to have a change of heart.

 

I trust GH, I dont trust Romney. There is a difference between legitimately changing your position based on new facts, and changing your position to try and win at all costs. Its a pretty important distinction.

[southsider2k5]

I never said anything like that. I think one of the best things any President ever has done was when GH raised taxes because he thought it was in the best interest of the country.

 

That makes sense.

 

Changing your position to win political points in a "gotchya" moment is completely different. Id have to see the transcript, but I dont believe Romney ever said why he changed his position or what new factors caused him to have a change of heart.

 

I trust GH, I dont trust Romney. There is a difference between legitimately changing your position based on new facts, and changing your position to try and win at all costs. Its a pretty important distinction.

 

coughgaymarriagecough

[Jenksismyhero]

coughgaymarriagecough

 

Pssh, that doesn't count because people are happy with the result...

[Soxbadger]

coughgaymarriagecough

 

Whether you believe him or not, at least Obama has stated that the reason he has changed his mind is because of his interactions with gay people.

 

Im not sure Romney ever explained why he changed his mind, but Im pretty sure thats because even he doesnt know his plan.

 

Lets be honest, he said that revenue would stay the same, but he would lower taxes and reduce write-offs/deductions. This plan is going to create jobs.

 

How?

 

Its like saying that McDonalds is going to change their menu and that every item will cost $100, but now theyll give each customer a "Thanks for shopping at McDonalds discount" so the amount the customer pays the same as before.

 

Woooooo math magic. That type of smooth talking logic may look good on tv, but should Romney be getting "points" for just making s*** up?

[Y2HH]

You keep saying that and ignoring the fact that that is an advisory board that has no real legal power. I would want to know, from the outsourcer, what things might cause outsourcers to stop outsourcing. Now say that fives time fast.

 

It's not the same as having a President who had some questionable business practices. I really wouldn't care how much money the guy made if he wasn't so arrogant about it -- the 47% business, etc. is just a confirmation of what makes so many people not trust rich businessmen.

 

It doesn't matter if they "have any real legal power or not", the fact is, he put people EXACTLY like Romney in charge of his jobs creation advisory board. You keep ignoring that, because it fits your agenda, but it's exactly what Obama did.

[Y2HH]

Whether you believe him or not, at least Obama has stated that the reason he has changed his mind is because of his interactions with gay people.

 

Im not sure Romney ever explained why he changed his mind, but Im pretty sure thats because even he doesnt know his plan.

 

Lets be honest, he said that revenue would stay the same, but he would lower taxes and reduce write-offs/deductions. This plan is going to create jobs.

 

How?

 

Its like saying that McDonalds is going to change their menu and that every item will cost $100, but now theyll give each customer a "Thanks for shopping at McDonalds discount" so the amount the customer pays the same as before.

 

Woooooo math magic. That type of smooth talking logic may look good on tv, but should Romney be getting "points" for just making s*** up?

 

I get it...when Obama flip-flops, it's because he had a legitimate change of opinion...he saw the error of his ways...but when Romney does it, it's because it's a better political play at that time. LOL.

[southsider2k5]

Whether you believe him or not, at least Obama has stated that the reason he has changed his mind is because of his interactions with gay people.

 

Im not sure Romney ever explained why he changed his mind, but Im pretty sure thats because even he doesnt know his plan.

 

Lets be honest, he said that revenue would stay the same, but he would lower taxes and reduce write-offs/deductions. This plan is going to create jobs.

 

How?

 

Its like saying that McDonalds is going to change their menu and that every item will cost $100, but now theyll give each customer a "Thanks for shopping at McDonalds discount" so the amount the customer pays the same as before.

 

Woooooo math magic. That type of smooth talking logic may look good on tv, but should Romney be getting "points" for just making s*** up?

 

So did he talk to not-gay people when he changed his mind the first time?

[Y2HH]

So did he talk to not-gay people when he changed his mind the first time?

 

He must have, because when Obama does it, it's for perfectly legitimate reasons...it's not at all political maneuvering.

[Soxbadger]

I get it...when Obama flip-flops, it's because he had a legitimate change of opinion...he saw the error of his ways...but when Romney does it, it's because it's a better political play at that time. LOL.

 

LOL

 

Really? That is the best you got. Explain to me why Romney changed his position and then I can judge on my own whether it was reasonable or not. Until then you are just blindly believing Romney because he is your boy.

 

I hold both Obama and Romney to the same standard. You clearly are just willing to have blind faith in Romney, that is fine, but dont act like I do the same with Obama. I dont like Obama, I think he is terrible at many things. The economy isnt the reason I will be voting for either candidate so to try and show bias on that debate is pretty ridiculous as I am way more against govt interference than either candidate.

 

So if you want to talk seriously about Romney, lets do it. But if you just want to keep arguing about Obama, its wasting both of our time, because I dont think Obama is anything special.

 

Which is why my statements have been, Obama was terrible, but Romney's plan makes no sense.

 

So far not one person has actually tried to defend Romneys, Ill lower taxes, get rid of credits, make the same money and improve the govt scheme.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

LOL

 

Really? That is the best you got. Explain to me why Romney changed his position and then I can judge on my own whether it was reasonable or not. Until then you are just blindly believing Romney because he is your boy.

 

I hold both Obama and Romney to the same standard. You clearly are just willing to have blind faith in Romney, that is fine, but dont act like I do the same with Obama. I dont like Obama, I think he is terrible at many things. The economy isnt the reason I will be voting for either candidate so to try and show bias on that debate is pretty ridiculous as I am way more against govt interference than either candidate.

 

So if you want to talk seriously about Romney, lets do it. But if you just want to keep arguing about Obama, its wasting both of our time, because I dont think Obama is anything special.

 

Which is why my statements have been, Obama was terrible, but Romney's plan makes no sense.

 

So far not one person has actually tried to defend Romneys, Ill lower taxes, get rid of credits, make the same money and improve the govt scheme.

 

Romney's an opportunist, which is why people aren't making excuses for his "changes of heart". I don't know why people aren't holding Obama to the same standards.

[Soxbadger]

So did he talk to not-gay people when he changed his mind the first time?

 

Why do you care so much about Obama?

 

Why not try and explain to me what Romney was talking about.

 

If I had to guess Obama was a bigot and didnt like gay people until it suited him. How does that explain Romney's economic plan?

[Y2HH]

LOL

 

Really? That is the best you got. Explain to me why Romney changed his position and then I can judge on my own whether it was reasonable or not. Until then you are just blindly believing Romney because he is your boy.

 

I hold both Obama and Romney to the same standard. You clearly are just willing to have blind faith in Romney, that is fine, but dont act like I do the same with Obama. I dont like Obama, I think he is terrible at many things. The economy isnt the reason I will be voting for either candidate so to try and show bias on that debate is pretty ridiculous as I am way more against govt interference than either candidate.

 

So if you want to talk seriously about Romney, lets do it. But if you just want to keep arguing about Obama, its wasting both of our time, because I dont think Obama is anything special.

 

Which is why my statements have been, Obama was terrible, but Romney's plan makes no sense.

 

So far not one person has actually tried to defend Romneys, Ill lower taxes, get rid of credits, make the same money and improve the govt scheme.

 

Yes, LOL is all I have for YOU, because there is no point in having this discussion, with you in specific.

 

You've already made up your mind in every conceivable way on this. When Obama does it, it's legit. When Romney does it, it's a lie, and Romney sucks...

 

So again.

 

LOLBIASED.

 

That's all you get, because it's all you shown you deserve at this point.

[Y2HH]

Romney's an opportunist, which is why people aren't making excuses for his "changes of heart". I don't know why people aren't holding Obama to the same standards.

 

Exactly this.

 

They're both opportunists in this regard...but what's the point in even discussing it with him, or others like him? He has Obama colored blinders on, and it shows in every post he makes. He tries to cover this by somewhat dismissing Obama as "not very good", but repeatedly attempts to attack Romney's bulls***, while ignoring Obama's bulls*** at the same time.

 

So again, he asks why I won't engage in a conversation about this with him, and that's why.

 

I'm not going to defend Romney's bulls***, or explain his bulls*** made up plan, because it doesn't make any sense. Just like it doesn't make any sense for Obama to ride on Romney's Bain record of laying off people and outsourcing jobs, while instating an advisory board that's full of people that are famous in the business world for doing the same exact thing as Romney did at Bain.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Y2HH

[Soxbadger]

Romney's an opportunist, which is why people aren't making excuses for his "changes of heart". I don't know why people aren't holding Obama to the same standards.

 

They are just holding Obama to the same standards as Romney, no standards.

 

The only person Ive seen holding either of them to standards, is sadly me, who rated Obama as terrible and Romney as not good.

 

I just want to hear from the people who said Romney did "great" last night. Because I literally saw the sales pitch for Grandpa Simpsons miracle elixir.

 

My plan will create jobs, lower taxes, increase revenue, not tax the rich more, increase jobs, spend more money, its never been done before and I look damn fine in a suit.

 

/raucous cheers

 

Thats how you win a debate.

[Kyyle23]

So is this thread about what happened last night, or just about debating about debates. I am debating this question, and it is quite deflating

[Soxbadger]

Exactly this.

 

They're both opportunists in this regard...but what's the point in even discussing it with him? He has Obama colored blinders on, and it shows in every post he makes.

 

hahahaha

 

Perhaps you should read my posts. Im only a Democrat due to social positions and I dont even like Obama.

 

Once again, quit avoiding the question, we all know Obama was terrible, you said Romney was great, what was so great about his plan last night.

[Y2HH]

hahahaha

 

Perhaps you should read my posts. Im only a Democrat due to social positions and I dont even like Obama.

 

Once again, quit avoiding the question, we all know Obama was terrible, you said Romney was great, what was so great about his plan last night.

 

I amended my post, as I usually do in order to answer this exact question...

 

I'll paste it here...

 

Exactly this.

 

They're both opportunists in this regard...but what's the point in even discussing it with him, or others like him? He has Obama colored blinders on, and it shows in every post he makes. He tries to cover this by somewhat dismissing Obama as "not very good", but repeatedly attempts to attack Romney's bulls***, while ignoring Obama's bulls*** at the same time.

 

So again, he asks why I won't engage in a conversation about this with him, and that's why.

 

I'm not going to defend Romney's bulls***, or explain his bulls*** made up plan, because it doesn't make any sense. Just like it doesn't make any sense for Obama to ride on Romney's Bain record of laying off people and outsourcing jobs, while instating an advisory board that's full of people that are famous in the business world for doing the same exact thing as Romney did at Bain. Because doing this doesn't make any sense, either.

 

TL;DR: They're both bulls***ters. I refuse to defend either one.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Y2HH

[Soxbadger]

So is this thread about what happened last night, or just about debating about debates. I am debating this question, and it is quite deflating

 

This thread is a sad reflection on the US society. The masses believe that there has to be a winner and a loser, when last night showed quite clearly that we are all going to be losers.

 

 

[Y2HH]

This thread is a sad reflection on the US society. The masses believe that there has to be a winner and a loser, when last night showed quite clearly that we are all going to be losers.

 

Well, there you go...we agree for a change.

[southsider2k5]

Why do you care so much about Obama?

 

Why not try and explain to me what Romney was talking about.

 

If I had to guess Obama was a bigot and didnt like gay people until it suited him. How does that explain Romney's economic plan?

 

What kind of question is this? Obama is the President of the United States of America. Of course I care what he has to say. The other choice is to bury my head in the sand with all of the rest of the people who "don't care about politics" because "it doesn't matter", but freak out about things like American Idol and NFL replacement officials, as if they do matter.

 

Romney doesn't have an economic plan. What else is there to say? He is running the same campaign the Democrats ran four years ago... I'm the one who is not the President, which is reason enough to vote for me. Romney is a con-artist running for President. I have zero respect for him, and won't be voting for him.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

TL;DR: They're both bulls***ters. I refuse to defend either one.

 

Im not defending either one.

 

You literally said Romney was "great" last night, where I said Obama was terrible and Romney was "not good". To me that looked like you defending Romney.

 

Where have I defended Obama?

 

I just have attacked Romney. I dont defend Obama, I defend my positions. Until Obama has me on the payroll, he doesnt get my services.