John Danks surgery/rehab/recovery thread

[caulfield12]

Danks has been throwing 88-89-90 already.

 

If he was like Jim Parque after injury and now throwing in the low 80's, then we would have a REAL reason to worry.

 

He's probably rushing to come back, he's losing his release point, his mechanics are a bit of a mess or maybe he's battling some scar tissue issues or even a "dead arm" from not having thrown for 9 months and then hitting that first wall in the comeback.

 

Patience, young Jedi.

 

 

[nickofypres]

I hope you're right. Injuries always make me fear the absolute worst.

[peteward]

I fail to see how RV was wrong in the quote you provided? Capsule is far superior to labrum.

 

RV was obviously wrong about the relative severity of a capsule tear (which he knows about as much about as we do) and in stating that Danks would be ready for the beginning of this season, no problem.

 

OK, RV meant well and was being positive, but at the same time you don't want to raise false expectations.

The fact remains that there is no way to tell when Danks will return if at all this season. We do not even know what the details of the surgical procedure were, i.e., how large the tear or damage was, whether there is any scar tissue in the capsule from the repair, and how they capsule will mechanically impact throwing motion, location of pitches, and velocity.

 

As to the velocity of Danks pitches, it has been reported that he touched 90 but if you saw the last game he pitched, they must have been using a speed gun that was not calibrated recently. The hitters had enough time to hitch up and take softball swings at his pitches.

 

I hope Danks comes back strong because we need him in the rotation and not Axelrod or Santiago.

Also, it will make my signed Danks stuff worth more.

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

RV was obviously wrong about the relative severity of a capsule tear (which he knows about as much about as we do) and in stating that Danks would be ready for the beginning of this season, no problem.

 

OK, RV meant well and was being positive, but at the same time you don't want to raise false expectations.

The fact remains that there is no way to tell when Danks will return if at all this season. We do not even know what the details of the surgical procedure were, i.e., how large the tear or damage was, whether there is any scar tissue in the capsule from the repair, and how they capsule will mechanically impact throwing motion, location of pitches, and velocity.

 

As to the velocity of Danks pitches, it has been reported that he touched 90 but if you saw the last game he pitched, they must have been using a speed gun that was not calibrated recently. The hitters had enough time to hitch up and take softball swings at his pitches.

 

I hope Danks comes back strong because we need him in the rotation and not Axelrod or Santiago.

Also, it will make my signed Danks stuff worth more.

 

With your attitude, you may as well just not ever count on John Danks to pitch again. Seriously, this is not a significant injury but this is the first he's pitched since like May or June of last year, and at that point, he was hurt. He hasn't been "perfectly" healthy since 2011 as far as we know, so there is going to be an adjustment period.

 

Robin Ventura had no reason to believe that Danks wouldn't be ready, but the Sox have been prepared for him start the year on the DL too. It's not a big deal that Ventura said he expects him to start the year on the MLB roster. Saying he didn't expect him to when he's in camp and throwing and getting his velocity up would be far more misleading because it suggests he's not close. Throwing 90 MPH tells me he's close.

 

Speaking of which, not sure if you've ever stood in the 85 MPH batting cage, but it's not super fast. Another 5 MPH makes it a bit faster, but then we're dealing with professionals here too. And, when anybody's offspeed pitches are trash, the fastball is straight, and it's anywhere up and over the plate, it's going to be hit really hard and usually a long ways. In the MLB, 90 MPH is slow without anything to complement it. The slowest you will see someone work while throwing primarily 4 seam fastballs is 96 or so, and that's with dynamite command. Danks isn't commanding his pitches yet.

 

Oh, and I don't envision much difference in numbers between Axelrod, Santiago, and Danks in the first half. It's going to be the second half when Danks is strong and figuring everything out when he is going to be awesome for the Sox.

[ptatc]

RV was obviously wrong about the relative severity of a capsule tear (which he knows about as much about as we do) and in stating that Danks would be ready for the beginning of this season, no problem.

 

OK, RV meant well and was being positive, but at the same time you don't want to raise false expectations.

The fact remains that there is no way to tell when Danks will return if at all this season. We do not even know what the details of the surgical procedure were, i.e., how large the tear or damage was, whether there is any scar tissue in the capsule from the repair, and how they capsule will mechanically impact throwing motion, location of pitches, and velocity.

 

As to the velocity of Danks pitches, it has been reported that he touched 90 but if you saw the last game he pitched, they must have been using a speed gun that was not calibrated recently. The hitters had enough time to hitch up and take softball swings at his pitches.

 

I hope Danks comes back strong because we need him in the rotation and not Axelrod or Santiago.

Also, it will make my signed Danks stuff worth more.

The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season. The variable is how long it takes the strength to return. The capsule is structurally sound after the repair and scar tissue would be a good thing to reinforce it. It is a very thin structure. Many times it takes a while for a pitcher to get a feel for the new shoulder but the fact that he has been reported to be painfree is the reason to think he will be back and probably soon.

[peteward]

With your attitude, you may as well just not ever count on John Danks to pitch again. Seriously, this is not a significant injury

 

The injury was significant as is ANY injury that requires surgery.

And, yes, I am concerned about the likelihood of Danks not being able to return any time soon.

That is a rational and reasonable thought given what I know, it isn't an "attitude."

 

 

[witesoxfan]

The injury was significant as is ANY injury that requires surgery.

And, yes, I am concerned about the likelihood of Danks not being able to return any time soon.

That is a rational and reasonable thought given what I know, it isn't an "attitude."

 

The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season. The variable is how long it takes the strength to return. The capsule is structurally sound after the repair and scar tissue would be a good thing to reinforce it. It is a very thin structure. Many times it takes a while for a pitcher to get a feel for the new shoulder but the fact that he has been reported to be painfree is the reason to think he will be back and probably soon.

 

 

I'll just let the PT talk.

[peteward]

I'll just let the PT talk.

"The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season."

 

That is a mere presumption that is not based on fact.

It is precisely the sort of wishful thinking that resulted in Ventura believing that

Danks would be ready at the start of the season.

Again, the fact is that no one knows when Danks will return to

his prior form or even if he will. If you disagree with that, you are welcome to your opinion, but that is based on your belief, nothing more.

As far as predictions on rehabilitation from injury. How about Derrick Rose?

He feels OK and reportedly can dunk, but he is not able to play.

No one can predict when he will return with any certainty.

This situation is similar. Just accept the fact.

 

Regarding Santana's similar injury return to being close to his prior form:

 

" The small number of pitchers who have undergone the procedure thus far leaves recovery timetable estimates imprecise. It's too small a number to really be confident about when they're going to come back, and how to exactly manage their recovery," Altchek says. "We're still feeling our way through, quite honestly. It obviously takes a minimum of a year. That's the absolute minimum. And probably the average is going to net out to be closer to two."

 

Wang similarly made his major league return on the two-year anniversary of his anterior capsule surgery.

 

Inside Johan Santana's comeback

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2013 by southside_hitman

[southsider2k5]

"The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season."

That is a mere presumption that is not based on fact.

It is precisely the sort of wishful thinking that resulted in Ventura believing that

Danks would be ready at the start of the season.

Again, the fact is that no one knows when Danks will return to

his prior form or even if he will. If you disagree with that, you are welcome to your opinion, but that is based on your belief, nothing more.

As far as predictions on rehabilitation from injury. How about Derrick Rose?

He feels OK and reportedly can dunk, but he is not able to play.

No one can predict when he will return with any certainty.

This situation is similar. Just accept the fact.

 

What proof do you have that it isn't?

[witesoxfan]

This situation is as similar to Derrick Rose's as peanut butter is similar to car washes. Danks wants to get into games but the team won't let him. Rose has been MEDICALLY CLEARED TO PLAY FOR A MONTH but chooses to sit out because he is not "comfortable."

 

Nobody knows, you're right, so idle speculation is rather dumb. I'm going to listen and appreciate what our resident physical therapist has said rather than dispute his educated opinion with my blind, uneducated, wild guesses. For all we know, it could be 14 years before he can pitch again, and by that point it's too late because outfielders have already been equipped with jetpacks and the apes have taken over, so f*** it.

[southsider2k5]

This situation is as similar to Derrick Rose's as peanut butter is similar to car washes. Danks wants to get into games but the team won't let him. Rose has been MEDICALLY CLEARED TO PLAY FOR A MONTH but chooses to sit out because he is not "comfortable."

 

Nobody knows, you're right, so idle speculation is rather dumb. I'm going to listen and appreciate what our resident physical therapist has said rather than dispute his educated opinion with my blind, uneducated, wild guesses. For all we know, it could be 14 years before he can pitch again, and by that point it's too late because outfielders have already been equipped with jetpacks and the apes have taken over, so f*** it.

 

I WANT MY ROCKETPACK!

[peteward]

What proof do you have that it isn't?

 

 

My point is the opposite of what you suggest.

There is no "proof" of when Danks could return to form.

The closest examples of this kind of injury to a pitcher and the surgical repair and rehab suggest

that the recovery may take longer than some, including Ventura predicted.

He had no basis to make that prediction given that other pitchers who sustained that injury and had that surgical procedure took two years to recover.

 

I am starting to discern an attitude or demeanor that is common to some posters.

 

"We've discussed this....what proof do you have...."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[elrockinMT]

I think John Danks is on schedule. Maybe not the schedule we as fans want, or even what Danks wants, but I think it is realistic to think he needs more time to get his strength back in that shoulder and arm. If he needs more time I think it's good that he misses cold weather and is back like the end of April or first part of May.

[southsider2k5]

My point is the opposite of what you suggest.

There is no "proof" of when Danks could return to form.

The closest examples of this kind of injury to a pitcher and the surgical repair and rehab suggest

that the recovery may take longer than some, including Ventura predicted.

He had no basis to make that prediction given that other pitchers who sustained that injury and had that surgical procedure took two years to recover.

 

I am starting to discern an attitude or demeanor that is common to some posters.

 

"We've discussed this....what proof do you have...."

 

You just said there is no proof he is healthy. What is your proof that he isn't? Or are you you apparently the only one who is allowed to question people, without it being an attitude problem?

[ptatc]

"The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season."

 

That is a mere presumption that is not based on fact.

It is precisely the sort of wishful thinking that resulted in Ventura believing that

Danks would be ready at the start of the season.

Again, the fact is that no one knows when Danks will return to

his prior form or even if he will. If you disagree with that, you are welcome to your opinion, but that is based on your belief, nothing more.

As far as predictions on rehabilitation from injury. How about Derrick Rose?

He feels OK and reportedly can dunk, but he is not able to play.

No one can predict when he will return with any certainty.

This situation is similar. Just accept the fact.

 

Regarding Santana's similar injury return to being close to his prior form:

 

" The small number of pitchers who have undergone the procedure thus far leaves recovery timetable estimates imprecise. It's too small a number to really be confident about when they're going to come back, and how to exactly manage their recovery," Altchek says. "We're still feeling our way through, quite honestly. It obviously takes a minimum of a year. That's the absolute minimum. And probably the average is going to net out to be closer to two."

 

Wang similarly made his major league return on the two-year anniversary of his anterior capsule surgery.

 

Inside Johan Santana's comeback

All rehab is based on current research however since all people are different there is no such thing as a medical fact. However, based on common surgical and rehab protocols (and alot of experience) there is every reason to believe that everything is going on schedule. Of course there is no guarantee or fact after injury especially surgery. But the way he is progressing should show nothing but positives.

[witesoxfan]

We'll do this again.

 

My point is the opposite of what you suggest.

There is no "proof" of when Danks could return to form.

The closest examples of this kind of injury to a pitcher and the surgical repair and rehab suggest

that the recovery may take longer than some, including Ventura predicted.

He had no basis to make that prediction given that other pitchers who sustained that injury and had that surgical procedure took two years to recover.

 

I am starting to discern an attitude or demeanor that is common to some posters.

 

"We've discussed this....what proof do you have...."

 

Are you a physical therapist? If you are, then I will concede all my points and listen to what you say. My gut tells me you are not.

 

Now, this IS a physical therapist and his opinion with all the knowledge he has of the Danks situation...

 

The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season. The variable is how long it takes the strength to return. The capsule is structurally sound after the repair and scar tissue would be a good thing to reinforce it. It is a very thin structure. Many times it takes a while for a pitcher to get a feel for the new shoulder but the fact that he has been reported to be painfree is the reason to think he will be back and probably soon.

 

This is an educated opinion. Your opinion, as well as mine and ss2k and generally anyone else on this board will be the aforementioned "blind, wild, uneducated guess." I'm going to trust the professional who has knowledge and an education in the field rather than random clippings from articles. Some of those injuries were 5-7 years ago (or more) and even in that time frame, I imagine the process itself has become better and more refined with superior knowledge to that which we had even those 5-7 years ago (or more). On top of that, the White Sox have about the best physiological staff in the entire MLB (which I point out by injury prevention and recovery rates, which ARE the best in the MLB).

 

Now, you are completely entitled to your opinion (which I believe is wrong, but that's my opinion, so I can think that), and you can continue writing the same thing over and over and over again, because this will be the last time I try reason with to you. We realize there is a chance that this could extend out even into July or who knows how long. We have a physical therapist on the board who has indicated he believes otherwise. I'm going to believe him more than I'm going to believe a person who continues to use the same argument over and over when people didn't believe or buy it the first time it was brought up.

 

[peteward]

You just said there is no proof he is healthy. What is your proof that he isn't? Or are you you apparently the only one who is allowed to question people, without it being an attitude problem?

 

Of course you are misquoting AND providing a false characterization of what I said.

I never stated that Danks is or isn't "healthy" but in any case, his health is not the issue.

Danks feels fine and the shoulder may well be healed structurally...but the fact is that he can't pitch

at a near an acceptable level as a starter, as demonstrated in his last four starts which have been abysmal

 

Danks further away from Chicago after ugly fourth outing

 

If you want to believe he will return earlier than other pitchers have from this kind of injury and surgical procedure, fine. I hope he does and that you are right. The fact remains though that this is just conjecture and wishful thinking.

 

 

 

 

[RockRaines]

Your posting style resembles someone else.

[pettie4sox]

Man do people love to b**** just to b****.

 

Atleast opening day is around the corner albeit the weather does not make it bode well.

[Kyyle23]

Man do people love to b**** just to b****.

 

Atleast opening day is around the corner albeit the weather does not make it bode well.

 

stop b****ing about the weather

[ptatc]

Of course you are misquoting AND providing a false characterization of what I said.

I never stated that Danks is or isn't "healthy" but in any case, his health is not the issue.

Danks feels fine and the shoulder may well be healed structurally...but the fact is that he can't pitch

at a near an acceptable level as a starter, as demonstrated in his last four starts which have been abysmal

 

Danks further away from Chicago after ugly fourth outing

 

If you want to believe he will return earlier than other pitchers have from this kind of injury and surgical procedure, fine. I hope he does and that you are right. The fact remains though that this is just conjecture and wishful thinking.

He has returned earlier than the others. He started throwing earlier and has been painfree doing so. It is not wishful thinking or conjecture it is an educated guess based on rehab progression. Until there is a set back there is no reason to think otherwise and every reason to be positive. Now if it's reported that he needs to stop throwing due to pain, it's a whole new ballgame, so to speak.

[pettie4sox]

stop b****ing about the weather

 

Touche.

[Kyyle23]

Touche.

 

[southsider2k5]

"The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season."

 

That is a mere presumption that is not based on fact.

It is precisely the sort of wishful thinking that resulted in Ventura believing that

Danks would be ready at the start of the season.

Again, the fact is that no one knows when Danks will return to

his prior form or even if he will. If you disagree with that, you are welcome to your opinion, but that is based on your belief, nothing more.

As far as predictions on rehabilitation from injury. How about Derrick Rose?

He feels OK and reportedly can dunk, but he is not able to play.

No one can predict when he will return with any certainty.

This situation is similar. Just accept the fact.

 

Regarding Santana's similar injury return to being close to his prior form:

 

" The small number of pitchers who have undergone the procedure thus far leaves recovery timetable estimates imprecise. It's too small a number to really be confident about when they're going to come back, and how to exactly manage their recovery," Altchek says. "We're still feeling our way through, quite honestly. It obviously takes a minimum of a year. That's the absolute minimum. And probably the average is going to net out to be closer to two."

 

Wang similarly made his major league return on the two-year anniversary of his anterior capsule surgery.

 

Inside Johan Santana's comeback

 

 

Of course you are misquoting AND providing a false characterization of what I said.

I never stated that Danks is or isn't "healthy" but in any case, his health is not the issue.

Danks feels fine and the shoulder may well be healed structurally...but the fact is that he can't pitch

at a near an acceptable level as a starter, as demonstrated in his last four starts which have been abysmal

 

Danks further away from Chicago after ugly fourth outing

 

If you want to believe he will return earlier than other pitchers have from this kind of injury and surgical procedure, fine. I hope he does and that you are right. The fact remains though that this is just conjecture and wishful thinking.

 

Your words are bolded above. You said that him throwing pain free is not based on fact. Unless you are trying to tell me that you misquoted yourself.

[flavum]

Danks will pitch Sunday in a minor league game.