John Danks surgery/rehab/recovery thread

[Marty34]

According to who?

 

It's not who, it's what. 53 and 2/3 innings in 2012.

[Marty34]

Call it what you like. When information is consistently misrepresented, I am going to correct it.

 

Start with an e-mail to Cots/Baseball Prospectus then.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Marty34

[caulfield12]

Well, let's get to the main point.

 

KW (not Hahn) and JR okayed the signing of Danks, Dunn, etc.

 

Danks, according to Marty's insider knowledge, will never be healthy again for the remainder of his contract.

 

Therefore....what? They should fire KW? Reinsdorf should sell the team if he won't spend $150 million to make up for the Danks, Dunn and Alexei Ramirez contract disasters?

 

You can't really use Danks as a reason for a White Flag, because we have five other legit starters and an obvious replacement in Santiago, who might actually be even better for all we know, so that's not going to fly.

 

Plus, there's insurance on that contract just like Peavy's that Marty isn't taking fully into consideration, either.

[caulfield12]

Here's your next five to ten thread ideas, Marty34.

 

1) Trade Sale before it's too late and he goes all Sergio Santos on the Sox

2) Danks and Dunn are horrible contracts, fire JR/KW

3) Trade Viciedo

4) Trade Ramirez again

5) Gordon Beckham should be moved to SS

6) KW sucks

7) JR and Hahn suck....White Sox will never be competitive in the AL Central again in our lifetimes

8) It was a mistake to not keep AJ because Flowers sucks

9) White Sox wasted money on Peavy and Keppinger when they should have gone younger

10) Everyone is too optimistic about the Sox....conclusively, i am 100% sure they will win 72 games or less and draw less than 1.8 million in attendance, therefore there's no reason not to start rebuilding in full

[The Ultimate Champion]

Here's your next five to ten thread ideas, Marty34.

 

1) Trade Sale before it's too late and he goes all Sergio Santos on the Sox

2) Danks and Dunn are horrible contracts, fire JR/KW

3) Trade Viciedo

4) Trade Ramirez again

5) Gordon Beckham should be moved to SS

6) KW sucks

7) JR and Hahn suck....White Sox will never be competitive in the AL Central again in our lifetimes

8) It was a mistake to not keep AJ because Flowers sucks

9) White Sox wasted money on Peavy and Keppinger when they should have gone younger

10) Everyone is too optimistic about the Sox....conclusively, i am 100% sure they will win 72 games or less and draw less than 1.8 million in attendance, therefore there's no reason not to start rebuilding in full

Just boil all that down into one thread titled "Among Other Things Reinsdorf Needs to Sell."

 

[Dick Allen]

Here's your next five to ten thread ideas, Marty34.

 

1) Trade Sale before it's too late and he goes all Sergio Santos on the Sox

2) Danks and Dunn are horrible contracts, fire JR/KW

3) Trade Viciedo

4) Trade Ramirez again

5) Gordon Beckham should be moved to SS

6) KW sucks

7) JR and Hahn suck....White Sox will never be competitive in the AL Central again in our lifetimes

8) It was a mistake to not keep AJ because Flowers sucks

9) White Sox wasted money on Peavy and Keppinger when they should have gone younger

10) Everyone is too optimistic about the Sox....conclusively, i am 100% sure they will win 72 games or less and draw less than 1.8 million in attendance, therefore there's no reason not to start rebuilding in full

I would say for all the guys Marty wants to get rid of and totally rebuild, the one guy they should trade if they went into a total rebuild is Sale. Wouldn't make sense having him pitch for a bad team for 4 or 5 years minimum, and with his new comtract, he would net several top prospects.

[southsider2k5]

It's not who, it's what. 53 and 2/3 innings in 2012.

 

Was injured/=currently injured

[southsider2k5]

I would say for all the guys Marty wants to get rid of and totally rebuild, the one guy they should trade if they went into a total rebuild is Sale. Wouldn't make sense having him pitch for a bad team for 4 or 5 years minimum, and with his new comtract, he would net several top prospects.

 

Sale by far has the highest value of anyone on this team. We could get someone's top half of their farm system for him when you include his contract.

[Balta1701]

Sale by far has the highest value of anyone on this team. We could get someone's top half of their farm system for him when you include his contract.

It would be an absolute betrayal to sign a kid to that contract and then trade him within the first few years.

[southsider2k5]

It would be an absolute betrayal to sign a kid to that contract and then trade him within the first few years.

 

The Sox won't do it, because they aren't a lowlife asshole organization. In theoretical terms of value on this team, it is Sale, and no one else is close.

[Marty34]

It would be an absolute betrayal to sign a kid to that contract and then trade him within the first few years.

 

If it were best for the organization it should be done regardless.

[ScottyDo]

If it were best for the organization it should be done regardless.

The Sox' reputation as an organization has long term, real effects. The reason we got a guys like Sale, Peavy and Konerko to sign team-friendly contracts is because people like to play here and the organization is well-respected by everyone whose last name isn't Guillen. On the other hand, the Marlins had to overpay like crazy for all their spending spree stuff last year, in part because the ownership is not at all respected.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox' reputation as an organization has long term, real effects. The reason we got a guys like Sale, Peavy and Konerko to sign team-friendly contracts is because people like to play here and the organization is well-respected by everyone whose last name isn't Guillen. On the other hand, the Marlins had to overpay like crazy for all their spending spree stuff last year, in part because the ownership is not at all respected.

 

Bingo. Well said.

[caulfield12]

The Sox' reputation as an organization has long term, real effects. The reason we got a guys like Sale, Peavy and Konerko to sign team-friendly contracts is because people like to play here and the organization is well-respected by everyone whose last name isn't Guillen. On the other hand, the Marlins had to overpay like crazy for all their spending spree stuff last year, in part because the ownership is not at all respected.

 

And Swisher, Javy, Cabrera, etc.

 

But that's 90% on Ozzie, and 10% on KW for bringing in guys he didn't perform enough "due diligence" on.

[Marty34]

The Sox' reputation as an organization has long term, real effects. The reason we got a guys like Sale, Peavy and Konerko to sign team-friendly contracts is because people like to play here and the organization is well-respected by everyone whose last name isn't Guillen. On the other hand, the Marlins had to overpay like crazy for all their spending spree stuff last year, in part because the ownership is not at all respected.

 

Reminds me of how much the Orioles were supposed to benefit from players wanting to play for them because Peter Angelos sided with the players during the 1993 strike. It never happened. If the rebuilding effort stalls or for whatever other reason, it is determined that it's in the best interest of the organization to trade Sale it has to be done.

[caulfield12]

Reminds me of how much the Orioles were supposed to benefit from players wanting to play for them because Peter Angelos sided with the players during the 1993 strike. It never happened. If the rebuilding effort stalls or for whatever other reason, it is determined that it's in the best interest of the organization to trade Sale it has to be done.

 

 

But not even you are going to come out and advocate doing it right now, after bringing in Peavy, Lindstrom and Keppinger, and not dumping the likes of Thornton or Crain.

 

If the Sox, through some bizarre set of circumstances, were to have 2 seasons in a row with under 70 wins and Sale was still healthy, then I think fans would be reasonable enough to understand at THAT point the cost/benefit analysis of trading him vs. risk of future injury/non-performance.

 

That's also assuming he's an All-Star and Top 10 MVP/Cy Young candidate during that time.

 

 

And any comp to the Orioles is bunk, because the Jays were just coming off two World Series titles and then you had the Yankees and Red Sox as well in the same division. Other than accepting his overly generous FA contracts given out to all the wrong players, the Orioles went through an almost twenty year period of hoplessness since the Jeffrey Maier incident in Yankee Stadium.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Maier

 

 

Edited March 17, 2013 by caulfield12

[Quin]

Chris Sale's worth right now is "Your top 5 prospects, then more" due to that contract.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Chris Sale's worth right now is "Your top 5 prospects, then more" due to that contract.

 

1.Javier Baez, ss2.Albert Almora, of3.Jorge Soler, of4.Arodys Vizcaino, rhp5.Brett Jackson, of

So let's say the trade was those five, plus S. Castro, for Alexei Ramirez and Chris Sale, or just Sale alone, for the five prospects.

 

What about Rizzo and any three of those prospects for Sale and Viciedo?

Or Castro/Almora/Soler/Vizcaino/Jackson for Sale? Or Castro/Baez/Almora/Soler/Vizcaino/Jackson for Sale and Viciedo?

 

Who pulls the trigger any of those moves?

 

I would definitely do it, were I KW and falling on my own sword in the process...Hahn doesn't have that same luxury, nor do we have the fanbase to easily tolerate it.

Edited March 18, 2013 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

1.Javier Baez, ss2.Albert Almora, of3.Jorge Soler, of4.Arodys Vizcaino, rhp5.Brett Jackson, of

So let's say the trade was those five, plus S. Castro, for Alexei Ramirez and Chris Sale, or just Sale alone, for the five prospects.

 

What about Rizzo and any three of those prospects for Sale and Viciedo?

Or Castro/Almora/Soler/Vizcaino/Jackson for Sale? Or Castro/Baez/Almora/Soler/Vizcaino/Jackson for Sale and Viciedo?

 

Who pulls the trigger any of those moves?

 

I would definitely do it, were I KW and falling on my own sword in the process...Hahn doesn't have that same luxury, nor do we have the fanbase to easily tolerate it.

 

If we were to trade Sale, we wouldn't be adding a guy like Starlin back. It makes no sense.

[balfanman]

If we were to trade Sale, we wouldn't be adding a guy like Starlin back. It makes no sense.

 

Agree 100%. I want nothing to do with that weak minded loser.

[LittleHurt05]

1.Javier Baez, ss2.Albert Almora, of3.Jorge Soler, of4.Arodys Vizcaino, rhp5.Brett Jackson, of

So let's say the trade was those five, plus S. Castro, for Alexei Ramirez and Chris Sale, or just Sale alone, for the five prospects.

 

What about Rizzo and any three of those prospects for Sale and Viciedo?

Or Castro/Almora/Soler/Vizcaino/Jackson for Sale? Or Castro/Baez/Almora/Soler/Vizcaino/Jackson for Sale and Viciedo?

 

Who pulls the trigger any of those moves?

 

I would definitely do it, were I KW and falling on my own sword in the process...Hahn doesn't have that same luxury, nor do we have the fanbase to easily tolerate it.

 

 

I don't think either the Cubs or the Sox would make that trade.

[Jake]

All I can say about John Danks' health is that he better be healthy -- I'm getting a shoulder surgery from the same doc in May and I hope he keeps up his good run on Sox pitchers in the meantime

[southsider2k5]

Agree 100%. I want nothing to do with that weak minded loser.

 

It isn't about that... If we trade Chris Sale, it means we are going into a full sell off. You don't add guys with long term contracts and big future salaries in that situation.

[Dick Allen]

It isn't about that... If we trade Chris Sale, it means we are going into a full sell off. You don't add guys with long term contracts and big future salaries in that situation.

There are many people who seem far more concerned with the farm system ranking than the actual major league team. Trading Sale for prospects should make them happy. The farm system would be top 10.

 

Obviously, they aren't going into a total rebuild, and hopefully, at least for me, they won't anytime soon. I think the new pricing, as long as the Sox are competitive, will help at the gate, plus some guys coming off the books, plus the additional TV money starting next year. The Sox should be able to throw a little money at their shortcomings and remain competitive for at least the near future. The key will be spending wisely. They just can't have the misses other teams can make.

[ptatc]

There are many people who seem far more concerned with the farm system ranking than the actual major league team. Trading Sale for prospects should make them happy. The farm system would be top 10.

 

Obviously, they aren't going into a total rebuild, and hopefully, at least for me, they won't anytime soon. I think the new pricing, as long as the Sox are competitive, will help at the gate, plus some guys coming off the books, plus the additional TV money starting next year. The Sox should be able to throw a little money at their shortcomings and remain competitive for at least the near future. The key will be spending wisely. They just can't have the misses other teams can make.

Too many +1,000,000,000,000