how would YOU fix the sox attendance woes?

[cabiness42]

I would imagine Cincy has a better market down there than the White Sox.

 

The Reds TV station is on cable/satellite systems in Indy and CSN is not, so of course Cincy has a better market. That's why they need to get CSN on--to change that market.

[ewokpelts]

Yes, but if CSN is airing in more households, that equals bigger ratings which equals more ad revenue which equals more money in the next TV contract.

they may not be ALLOWED to broadcast on cable networks in central indiana. i know they are on directv, but that's satellite.

 

[ewokpelts]

One thing the sox did right was offer 1/2 off coupons during fan appreciation day. Coupon is good for "buy one get one free" lower reserved ticket for mon-thurs april games.

 

I think they are starting to get the hint.

[southsider2k5]

they may not be ALLOWED to broadcast on cable networks in central indiana. i know they are on directv, but that's satellite.

 

Yeah, this is where I was going with this. Baseball's TV market rules are a b****. Teams get exclusive rights to certain markets.

[southsider2k5]

One thing the sox did right was offer 1/2 off coupons during fan appreciation day. Coupon is good for "buy one get one free" lower reserved ticket for mon-thurs april games.

 

I think they are starting to get the hint.

 

They have always given out tickets to April games like candy. They have always given them away for anyone who gets a weekend package at Soxfest.

[ewokpelts]

They have always given out tickets to April games like candy. They have always given them away for anyone who gets a weekend package at Soxfest.

soxfest is $300 for a family of four BEFORE the hotel.

[cabiness42]

they may not be ALLOWED to broadcast on cable networks in central indiana. i know they are on directv, but that's satellite.

 

Central Indiana is within the Sox/Cubs "exclusive rights territory", so games on CSN would not be blacked out. CSN is only available on DirecTV/DishNetwork if you buy the "sports package" that includes all of the local sports channels from all over the country (which is a very very small percentage of households). It is not available in the same programming packages as the Reds' station.

 

What's worse is despite the fact that CSN gets hardly any distribution in Central Indiana, Sox/Cubs games are blacked out on MLBEI/mlb.tv because it is within the Sox/Cubs exclusive rights territory, so for about 99% of people in Central Indiana, WGN games are the only games they can watch.

[cabiness42]

Since we're on the subject of TV markets, here's a link to the map:

 

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/images/MLB_Bl...Map1000x733.gif

 

You can see what teams are considered "local" to any area of the country.

[ewokpelts]

Central Indiana is within the Sox/Cubs "exclusive rights territory", so games on CSN would not be blacked out. CSN is only available on DirecTV/DishNetwork if you buy the "sports package" that includes all of the local sports channels from all over the country (which is a very very small percentage of households). It is not available in the same programming packages as the Reds' station.

 

What's worse is despite the fact that CSN gets hardly any distribution in Central Indiana, Sox/Cubs games are blacked out on MLBEI/mlb.tv because it is within the Sox/Cubs exclusive rights territory, so for about 99% of people in Central Indiana, WGN games are the only games they can watch.

while the indy is considered "sox territory", csn chicago may not be allowed to be carried on cable outlets in that market.

 

it's not just the mlb territory to consider, but also the territories of the cable operators.

 

[SI1020]

Since we're on the subject of TV markets, here's a link to the map:

 

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/images/MLB_Bl...Map1000x733.gif

 

You can see what teams are considered "local" to any area of the country.

Thanks for that link. A lot of territories overlap.

 

[cabiness42]

while the indy is considered "sox territory", csn chicago may not be allowed to be carried on cable outlets in that market.

 

it's not just the mlb territory to consider, but also the territories of the cable operators.

 

The NBA may have blackout rules that would prohibit showing Bulls games in the Pacers market, but there aren't any prohibitions against carrying the channel. The e-mail exchanges I had with Scott Reifert a few years back are that CSN has chosen not to pursue distribution in some locations even though they are within the team's territory. When I pressed him as to whether or not the Sox would challenge a re-drawing of their local territory to match CSN's distribution, he couldn't (wouldn't?) answer that question.

[southsider2k5]

The NBA may have blackout rules that would prohibit showing Bulls games in the Pacers market, but there aren't any prohibitions against carrying the channel. The e-mail exchanges I had with Scott Reifert a few years back are that CSN has chosen not to pursue distribution in some locations even though they are within the team's territory. When I pressed him as to whether or not the Sox would challenge a re-drawing of their local territory to match CSN's distribution, he couldn't (wouldn't?) answer that question.

 

It is proprietary information. No way he tells a fan that.

[jasonxctf]

Two things...

 

Immediately

- Drop Parking Prices

 

Long-Term

- Move Minor League Affiliates closer to home. Having Kane County go to the Cubs, without a presumed fight, is a horrendous decision. Peoria, South Bend, Iowa, grab some fringe fans who, when they take vacations to Chicago, may have a nice incentive to go see the big league team play. Grow the base.

[southsider2k5]

Two things...

 

Immediately

- Drop Parking Prices

 

Long-Term

- Move Minor League Affiliates closer to home. Having Kane County go to the Cubs, without a presumed fight, is a horrendous decision. Peoria, South Bend, Iowa, grab some fringe fans who, when they take vacations to Chicago, may have a nice incentive to go see the big league team play. Grow the base.

 

The Sox like having their minor league affiliates all close to each other, that way they can move players around on short notice if needed. About the only way I could see that changing is if somewhere like Indianapolis opened up on a year when the Sox weren't still contracted to Charlotte, so they could move their AAA players closer to Chicago to facilitate emergency call ups. As it is now, this set up also benefits them because their roving instructors don't have far to go, and neither do their scouts.

[joeynach]

That's how I thought it would work, that the pricing would fluctuate depending on the demand. Obviously that wasn't the case, judging by all the empty seats at the Cubs & Yankees series, while the prices stayed high up to first pitch.

 

You would think right. Dyanmic pricing should lower prices when they are more tickets available and keep lowering them as it gets closer to gametime to try and move the supply curve down towards an intersection point with demand. In theory dynamic pricing should do both, benefit the consumer with lower prices (compared to box office price) and offer the supplier a vehicle to move his product, albeit for a less than "retail price" to a point where consumer demand and supplier supply meet each other for that specific game. It doesnt work if its not truly dynamic or on demand, like if the system has floors/ceilings and thresholds galore than whats the point (supply demand curves are based on free markets), Im just speculation that though.

[Iwritecode]

The Sox like having their minor league affiliates all close to each other, that way they can move players around on short notice if needed. About the only way I could see that changing is if somewhere like Indianapolis opened up on a year when the Sox weren't still contracted to Charlotte, so they could move their AAA players closer to Chicago to facilitate emergency call ups. As it is now, this set up also benefits them because their roving instructors don't have far to go, and neither do their scouts.

 

I'm trying to figure out what sort of competitive advantage that would give them other than saving a few bucks on travel costs.

 

How often does a situation really come up where they need to get a player from one minor league team to another on short notice?

 

Seems to me it would make more sense to want to get a player from the minors to the major league club on short notice.

 

[Dick Allen]

I'm trying to figure out what sort of competitive advantage that would give them other than saving a few bucks on travel costs.

 

How often does a situation really come up where they need to get a player from one minor league team to another on short notice?

 

Seems to me it would make more sense to want to get a player from the minors to the major league club on short notice.

I think its more for their staff of evaluators and roving instructors.

[jasonxctf]

The Sox like having their minor league affiliates all close to each other, that way they can move players around on short notice if needed. About the only way I could see that changing is if somewhere like Indianapolis opened up on a year when the Sox weren't still contracted to Charlotte, so they could move their AAA players closer to Chicago to facilitate emergency call ups. As it is now, this set up also benefits them because their roving instructors don't have far to go, and neither do their scouts.

 

and from what I've heard, from some ex-minor leaguers, this concept is without merit.

 

What's more important, travel time for roaming instructors or developing a fan base?

[southsider2k5]

and from what I've heard, from some ex-minor leaguers, this concept is without merit.

 

What's more important, travel time for roaming instructors or developing a fan base?

 

Where is the proof that a minor league team builds a major league fan base?

[Iwritecode]

Where is the proof that a minor league team builds a major league fan base?

 

I'm sure there are other factors but having the Iowa Cubs and (at one time) the Rockford Cubbies helped a little.

 

I've heard lots of people say how nice it is to have the Rockford Icehogs close for the Blackhawks as well.

 

I'm not saying it would make a huge difference but it sure can't hurt. I don't really see the advantage having the entire minor league system in the south.

 

[bigruss]

Where is the proof that a minor league team builds a major league fan base?

Plus you run the risk of competing with yourself.

[cabiness42]

Where is the proof that a minor league team builds a major league fan base?

 

I don't know if this constitutes proof, but there seemed to be a bit more excitement about the Sox in the South Bend area while the team there was affiliated with them.

 

[LittleHurt05]

Plus you run the risk of competing with yourself.

 

Exactly. All these new fans will be used to paying minor league prices for baseball, they may not want to suddenly pay more for the MLB team.

[jasonxctf]

Where is the proof that a minor league team builds a major league fan base?

 

Lets call geograhpically close (within 4 hours driving) Which camp would you rather be in? MLB attendance #, next to AAA name. 8 of the top 10 teams in attendance, have a AAA team nearby.

 

Teams with AAA ball clubs geographically close to MLB affiliate

Toronto (Buffalo)-23

Philadelphia (Allentown)- 1

Boston (Rhode Island)- 8

Atlanta (Lawrenceville, GA)- 15

Baltimore (Norfolk)-20

Cleveland (Columbus)-29

Cincinnati (Louisville)-16

Detroit (Toledo)- 9

Chicago NL (Des Moines)- 10

St Louis (Memphis)- 6

Kansas City (Omaha)-25

Texas (Round Rock)- 3

Colorado (Colorado Springs)- 13

Seattle (Tacoma)-26

San Francisco (Fresno)- 4

Oakland (Sacramento)-27

New York AL (Moosic)- 2

 

Teams without AAA ball clubs georgraphically close to MLB affiliate

Minnesota (Rochester, NY)- 12

Washington (Syracuse, NY)- 14

Chicago AL (Charlotte)-24

Tampa Bay (Durham)-30

Pittsburgh (Indianpolis)-22

Milwaukee (Nashville)- 11

Los Angeles NL (Alberquere)- 5

Miami (New Orleans)-18

Houston (Oklahoma City)-28

San Diego (Tucson)-21

New York NL (Las Vegas)-17

Arizona (Reno)-19

Los Angeles AL (Salt Lake)- 7

[Paint it Black]

and from what I've heard, from some ex-minor leaguers, this concept is without merit.

 

What's more important, travel time for roaming instructors or developing a fan base?

 

Chicken or the egg question. You could argue that roaming instructors help develop better talent, and better talent makes your major league team better, which in theory should draw more fans to the big club.

 

I personally don't think having the White Sox in Kane County would have considerably. I think this because the "average" fan gives a damn about prospects. Further, I grew up in the western burbs and there just are not as many Sox fans out there, as say, the south suburbs. I don't see south suburban fans driving all the way to Geneva to catch a minor league game.

 

I guess I just disagree with your premise. If winning this year doesn't bring the fan base out to the game and "develop new fans" than why do you think having a low A affiliated team in Kane County would?