LittleHurt05 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) The Sox average more customers per game than the Blackhawks and Bulls. Comparing them to the Bears with 8 home dates isn't fair. Plus those 3 are the only teams in town in their respective sports. If ticket brokers owned the same number of season tickets for the Cubs as they do for the Sox, their attendance would be far less, but we all know there are more Cubs fans in the area than Sox fans. The Sox are drawing from a fairly small pool compared to the others except probably the Blackhawks, but if they go a few seasons without the playoffs, their attendance will be dismal. People will come, but pricing is a problem. If you compare those teams to other teams in the same leagues, they all are among the highest in average ticket price and attendance. It doesn't appear that the economy & high ticket prices have had an effect on them. Other NHL/NBA/NFL/MLB teams have much lower ticket prices, yet also have attendance issues. If the economy in Chicago is so bad, why don't any of the other teams have issues like the White Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:22 PM) If the argument is price points, then the amount of home games is immaterial. Aren't people usually willing to pay higher prices for something if they know it's in shorter supply? Less home games = less supply. Also as I mentioned earlier, they don't have to share the city with any other football teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) That's not true at all. You pay more for something in higher demand. With unlimited supply, there is no surplus demand to accommodate high prices. Like I said before, how often are people "supposed" to go? The typical football game attender probably goes to one game a year. That's plenty to fill 8 games. How many people do you need to go to one game a year to fill up 81 games? It's actually kind of ridiculous to compare the Bears and the White Sox in this case. Typical White Sox fan probably shows up several times more often than the typical Bears fan, yet former has an attendance problem and the latter never fails to sell out. It's apples to oranges. EDIT: Using iwritecode's capacity numbers above, the Bears have 192,000 seats to sell every year. The White Sox have 3,240,000 seats to sell every year. In other words the face value of the tickets aren't the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) If you compare those teams to other teams in the same leagues, they all are among the highest in average ticket price and attendance. It doesn't appear that the economy & high ticket prices have had an effect on them. Other NHL/NBA/NFL/MLB teams have much lower ticket prices, yet also have attendance issues. If the economy in Chicago is so bad, why don't any of the other teams have issues like the White Sox? Their season ticket bases are extremely high. A lot of that is corporate, also its not an 81 game committment but a 41 game committment. The Bears is a 10 game committment with pre season. There is also a larger pool for those teams, as many people loyal to the Cubs won't go to a Sox game if it were free. You don't get buses from Iowa at Sox games on a Wednesday afternoon. In fact, one article I read had a Cubs official saying 40% of their attendance was tourists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) If you compare those teams to other teams in the same leagues, they all are among the highest in average ticket price and attendance. It doesn't appear that the economy & high ticket prices have had an effect on them. Other NHL/NBA/NFL/MLB teams have much lower ticket prices, yet also have attendance issues. If the economy in Chicago is so bad, why don't any of the other teams have issues like the White Sox? Exactly. It is time to accept that the White Sox have a small, bandwagon, fandom. It is what it is. If people don't want to go to games, for whatever reason, that is fine. But then as a fanbase, we can't complain about things like payroll and attendance. In my eyes you can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 not necessarily germain to the topic, but the cubs just announced they are cutting ticket prices by two percent next year. bleacher seats cut by 10 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If you compare those teams to other teams in the same leagues, they all are among the highest in average ticket price and attendance. It doesn't appear that the economy & high ticket prices have had an effect on them. Other NHL/NBA/NFL/MLB teams have much lower ticket prices, yet also have attendance issues. If the economy in Chicago is so bad, why don't any of the other teams have issues like the White Sox? Chicago is a city of 2.7 million people in a metro area of 9.8 million people. There are less than 600,000 available football tickets per year, about 900,000 available basketball and hockey tickets per year, and over 6.5 million available baseball tickets per year. It's not a very fair comparison. The biggest way to improve attendance is sell more season tickets. Every season ticket sold adds 81 to the season total.. Sell 6,172 more season tickets and you've added 500,000 to the season total. That alone moves the Sox from 24th to 14th. Winning helps sell season tickets. The economy improving would help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) In other words the face value of the tickets aren't the problem. One way to increase demand is to make it more attractive. Lowering the price usually is one way to do that. When stores want to get rid of inventory, they occassionally have sales. If the Sox want to sell some more tickets, they should lower the prices and make their pricing model easy enough for a monkey to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) Their season ticket bases are extremely high. A lot of that is corporate, also its not an 81 game committment but a 41 game committment. The Bears is a 10 game committment with pre season. There is also a larger pool for those teams, as many people loyal to the Cubs won't go to a Sox game if it were free. You don't get buses from Iowa at Sox games on a Wednesday afternoon. In fact, one article I read had a Cubs official saying 40% of their attendance was tourists. So maybe that's the main problem. A small fan base, not pricing. Opening a new ballpark & winning the World Series both expanded that fanbase for a while, but now it's back to it's core again. I don't think it's as simple as high prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (thedoctor @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) not necessarily germain to the topic, but the cubs just announced they are cutting ticket prices by two percent next year. bleacher seats cut by 10 percent. That situation isn't totally comparable, because the Cubs GM has publicly stated that they will not compete for a playoff spot in 2013, and probably not in 2014 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) In other words the face value of the tickets aren't the problem. No, quite to the contrary, the point is that you can't expect to sell 3.2 million Sox tickets at the same or similar price point you think a Bears game should be. If tickets were $5 apiece, you'd get way closer to that number. It's got nothing to do with "the economy," and everything to do with supply and demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) No, quite to the contrary, the point is that you can't expect to sell 3.2 million Sox tickets at the same or similar price point you think a Bears game should be. If tickets were $5 apiece, you'd get way closer to that number. It's got nothing to do with "the economy," and everything to do with supply and demand. But if tickets were $5 apiece, then payroll would probably have to be drastically reduced. Then you might have a hard time selling 3.2 million tickets to watch a s***ty baseball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:45 PM) But if tickets were $5 apiece, then payroll would probably have to be drastically reduced. Then you might have a hard time selling 3.2 million tickets to watch a s***ty baseball team. I'm not saying it SHOULD be $5 apiece, I'm just saying that the price DOES matter, because in order to sell the place out consistently, you need a whole lot of people to commit at least several hundred dollars to go to a lot of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) So maybe that's the main problem. A small fan base, not pricing. Opening a new ballpark & winning the World Series both expanded that fanbase for a while, but now it's back to it's core again. I don't think it's as simple as high prices. If the Sox priced every ticket at $5, parking was free, beer $.50, hot dogs $.50, I'd bet they would set an attendance record. The problem is, the Sox attendance problems sort of create a snowball effect. All the talk of attendance woes, seeing empty seats on TV when in first place, decreases chances of tickets being sold, especially at inflated prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) I'm not saying it SHOULD be $5 apiece, I'm just saying that the price DOES matter, because in order to sell the place out consistently, you need a whole lot of people to commit at least several hundred dollars to go to a lot of games. Yet getting people to spend five times that to go to a Bears game isn't a problem at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:45 PM) But if tickets were $5 apiece, then payroll would probably have to be drastically reduced. Then you might have a hard time selling 3.2 million tickets to watch a s***ty baseball team. The point being if the prices were lower, more people would attend which means price has to be an issue. If it isn't an issue, why don't they just double the prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:52 PM) Yet getting people to spend five times that to go to a Bears game isn't a problem at all. The Bears have about 500,000 seats to sell. Probably 450,000 or more are sold to season ticketholders with a waiting list probably 20 years long, so the reality is, they have to sell about 50,000 seats a year at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) The Bears have about 500,000 seats to sell. Probably 450,000 or more are sold to season ticketholders with a waiting list probably 20 years long, so the reality is, they have to sell about 50,000 seats a year at most. When people are saying ticket prices are too high, they aren't saying that only if there were less tickets for sale, they could afford to buy tickets. They are saying the price of tickets are too expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) When people are saying ticket prices are too high, they aren't saying that only if there were less tickets for sale, they could afford to buy tickets. They are saying the price of tickets are too expensive. Not counting secondary markets, there are probably less than 100,000 people that actually purchase Bears tickets during a season, and when a team plays 8 home games a year, one game is actually more of an event than going to a baseball game where 10 times the number of games are played. People are willing to pay up for the event, and if they are not season ticketholders the experience of a Bears game. More people go to White Sox games each year. Its like if you needed some gym shoes, if the K Mart shoes were $75, most would say they were too expensive. If the Air Jordans were $85, the same person wouldn't think the same thing. White Sox tickets are too expensive for the non diehard. Some things you are willing to pay up for, some things you aren't. White Sox tickets apparently are on the are not list for the majority of people living in this area. Edited October 16, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 03:05 PM) Not counting secondary markets, there are probably less than 100,000 people that actually purchase Bears tickets during a season, and when a team plays 8 home games a year, one game is actually more of an event than going to a baseball game where 10 times the number of games are played. People are willing to pay up for the event, and if they are not season ticketholders the experience of a Bears game. More people go to White Sox games each year. Its like if you needed some gym shoes, if the K Mart shoes were $75, most would say they were too expensive. If the Air Jordans were $85, the same person wouldn't think the same thing. White Sox tickets are too expensive for the non diehard. Some things you are willing to pay up for, some things you aren't. White Sox tickets apparently are on the are not list for the majority of people living in this area. If Sox tickets are too expensive at $50 for someone, Bears tickets aren't affordable at $200 for that same person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 03:17 PM) If Sox tickets are too expensive at $50 for someone, Bears tickets aren't affordable at $200 for that same person. I think whenpeople say "tix are too expensive", they really mean "lower deck tix are too expensive" Too many lower level snobs. Upper deck tix with a code were as low as $7 thi year yet the upper deck was half empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 02:52 PM) Yet getting people to spend five times that to go to a Bears game isn't a problem at all. I feel like you're not reading what I'm posting at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 03:29 PM) I feel like you're not reading what I'm posting at all. That's exactly how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 16, 2012 -> 03:17 PM) If Sox tickets are too expensive at $50 for someone, Bears tickets aren't affordable at $200 for that same person. That might be true. How many people in this city are Bears fans and not Sox fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Just looking back at the Sox 2012 attendance and the top 5 largest crowds were: Friday, Apr 13 = 38,676 (opening day) Monday, Jul 23 = 37,788 (half-price Monday) Tuesday, Jul 24 = 34,715 Monday, Jun 18 = 33,215 (half-price Monday) Saturday, Apr 14 = 33,025 (opening weekend) They only broke 30,000 16 times including these dates. Of the other dates, 2 were Cubs games, 2 were Mondays, 1 was the 4th of July and 1 was during the final scheduled homestand vs the Tigers. What happened on that random Tuesday in July against the Twins? Because it’s those days we need to focus on. Obviously the Cubs and half-price Mondays draw people in. The 3 lowest dates were in April except for Sept 25 when the team had been all but eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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