StrangeSox Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) Anti-Discrimination laws? That doesn't impact the power of your individual vote. Minorities aren't given more votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I really dislike this argument so to answer the question. Amendment process needs super majority to ensure that mere majority cant trample on minority rights. Im pretty sure you are looking for Federalist Paper 10 partially about Tyranny of the Majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) That doesn't impact the power of your individual vote. Minorities aren't given more votes. Anything campaign finance oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 QUOTE (vandy125 @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 08:22 PM) There are some interesting statistics out there. In the whole US population, 80% lives in Urban locations. It would be very easy to override any concerns that a rural area would have (ie farming). What actions might a President take to screw over rural areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 03:41 PM) Anything campaign finance oriented. I'm not following. How does this relate to the EC, anyway? Even if you do point out other instances with similar distortions, that's still not an affirmative argument in favor of the EC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) I'm not following. How does this relate to the EC, anyway? Even if you do point out other instances with similar distortions, that's still not an affirmative argument in favor of the EC. I have been saying all along that these distortions are built into the system on purpose as a protection of minority rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 03:49 PM) I have been saying all along that these distortions are built into the system on purpose as a protection of minority rights. The original EC does not really resemble the modern EC at all. Hamilton's arguments in the Federalist Papers (60-something) were basically that the populous was not to be trusted with direct election and that it should instead be in the hands of well-informed electors. It also predates and naively does not address political parties. I don't see how this particular distortion provides any meaningful protection of minority rights. For example, someone living in Wyoming has roughly double the EC vote power of someone living in California. What minority is being protected here? At whose expense does this come? How is that analogous to anti-discrimination laws or other civil rights? Do the collective citizens of Ohio, our country's 9th most populous state, represent some minority whose rights need protection that they wouldn't otherwise receive in a true national vote? To expand on this, Nate Silver has a column up today on Arizona becoming a battleground state in the near future. What minority rights of the citizens of Arizona are currently not protected by the EC (as no one is campaigning their or really paying attention to their specific issues as Arizonans) but will be protected in say 2016, when the population demographics push it into the toss-up column? How are those minority rights not better served by giving them equal voice now? Edited October 23, 2012 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Well, a timely post over on Volokh on the rare-but-potential result of no majority winner for the President or Vice-President in the Electoral College http://www.volokh.com/2012/10/23/and-somet...-framers-erred/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 23, 2012 -> 03:49 PM) I have been saying all along that these distortions are built into the system on purpose as a protection of minority rights. And it has never been true, for the purpose of the Electoral College. Go look up the history, first of all. As I said before, they did it due to lack of trust of the masses, and to get smaller states on board with having a nation at all. Second and beyond that, you have still not once come up with a single example of how any system other than a national vote would be more fair to voters. Not one. All you have done is try to defend the idea that rural states should get privileged leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 The world and country is so different than it was when so many concessions were made for small states. The different large states are so different and spread apart at this point that it is not as if they are going to make some coalition to trample over other states. No one at the national level is doing much for their state specifically anyway, they're all idealogues that only think of their home district/state when it comes to things that might get them re-elected (here, have a highway!) and I think those will be given out at roughly the same rates in either sort of system. On the national presidential election level, it doesn't make any sense to have this nondemocratic buffer. It is one position in government that is already balanced by the Congress that accounts for giving extra seats to small states that magically need extra help via representation. Even if a simple "most votes wins" Presidential election is not as just something like the Alternate Vote I presented earlier, it is unequivocally better than the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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