**2012 Election Day thread**

[Y2HH]

the economy went from good to good. right now, it's going to go from crap to better. there's a huge difference there.

 

Not necessarily. This assumes nothing else will go wrong, and I assure you, if you've ever owned a house, which is much like owning an economy, just when you think nothing else can go wrong, something most assuredly will.

 

The one thing he democrats will need to worry about now is our national debt. Whether its their fault or not dowsnt matter, after 8 years in office, the onus is on them now. If this goes from bad to worse and our credit crumbles, the democrats will be blamed even if they didn't do it on their own. That, and as far as I can see, only that is what will give the Republican Party an entry point in getting back into the good graces of the people. The Democratic Party needs to pay attention to this if they want to stay the party in power.

[Marty34]

This, by the way, is something probably very upsetting to the GOP looking forward. Not only all the problems they will have that will worsen in terms of the makeup of the electorate... but I am sure they know that, no matter who was elected President, there is a very good chance the economy will get stronger at some point in the next few years. And with a Dem in the White House, that could spell big trouble for the GOP in 2014 Midterms and the 2016 General. Not to mention the GOP is defending a lot more Senate seats in 2014 than they were this year.

 

The only thing that kept this from being a complete disaster, was that they happened to control most state legislatures in 2010-2012 when redistricting was occurring, which is why the House makeup stayed static. If not for that, they may have lost the house too.

 

I believe after a weak recovery we're in for another recession in '13-'14. I would have preferred not to have a lame-duck President in office over the next four years.

[iamshack]

Obama's data crunchers

 

Good read

[RockRaines]

I can understand people wanting to get rid of the EC. But, how can anyone argue that going to popular vote someone in a state like North Dakota would be worth more. The EC benefits the smaller states and gives them more of a say than their population does. I don't think the EC is perfect but popular vote isn't the answer be open to hearing other ideas to replace it.

Because once you get rid of the states powers the only thing that matters is each person's vote. So everyone is valued the same regardless of state, creed, race, income level etc. Smaller states have the same say because the power is with the individual not the state.

[RockRaines]

Well, let's be honest, the GOP lost a chance to gain Senate control almost entirely because of a handful of Tea Party right wingers made outlandish and offensive comments about women. So no, not all Republicans in the electorate are like that, at all. But the Senate candidates in the key races were that way, in many cases.

And the GOP helped them oust very conservative republicans in the primaries with their backing and funds. It's their fault.

[southsider2k5]

That's exactly why going district-by district for the ec only makes things worse. A majority of Pennsylvanians voted democratic for house, but the make up is something like 16-5 republicans.

 

Edit: this is also why state races are really important!

 

This is why the "my vote doesn't count" people need to be smacked. There is more than the President on the ballot. People who have a lot more say in your day to day life than Barack does.

[StrangeSox]

This is why the "my vote doesn't count" people need to be smacked. There is more than the President on the ballot. People who have a lot more say in your day to day life than Barack does.

Otoh i read that on a three page South Carolina ballot, there were exactly four democrats, two of them being Obama and Biden. The other races were unopposed republicans.

[Jake]

Otoh i read that on a three page South Carolina ballot, there were exactly four democrats, two of them being Obama and Biden. The other races were unopposed republicans.

 

The losing US Congressman and Obama/Biden were the only Dems on the ballot I voted on

[Reddy]

Otoh i read that on a three page South Carolina ballot, there were exactly four democrats, two of them being Obama and Biden. The other races were unopposed republicans.

that's how it is in NYC just reversed.

[GoodAsGould]

Because once you get rid of the states powers the only thing that matters is each person's vote. So everyone is valued the same regardless of state, creed, race, income level etc. Smaller states have the same say because the power is with the individual not the state.

 

Yeah but nobody is going to agree to get rid of states having their own identity and I wouldn't be for that either, it is nice you can live in the same country but find an area that is more suited for your beliefs or whatever reason. As long as we have state governments which is going to be for the foreseeable future a popular vote doesn't make any sense.

[Soxbadger]

Yeah but nobody is going to agree to get rid of states having their own identity and I wouldn't be for that either, it is nice you can live in the same country but find an area that is more suited for your beliefs or whatever reason. As long as we have state governments which is going to be for the foreseeable future a popular vote doesn't make any sense.

 

So does a popular governor vote make no sense because we have counties?

[GoodAsGould]

So does a popular governor vote make no sense because we have counties?

 

 

I never said the electoral college was perfect, just nationwide as long as states have their own government a popular vote isn't a better solution.

[StrangeSox]

It's a nation-wide office, not a representative for a state. Why doesn't a popular vote make sense? Plenty of other federal systems run that way.

[Soxbadger]

I never said the electoral college was perfect, just nationwide as long as states have their own government a popular vote isn't a better solution.

 

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, obviously EC has been controversial for 200 years, I just dont like a system where 1 persons vote is 4x more important than another persons. To me that seems unfair. And if Im going to be convinced to do something that unfair, Id need to have a really good reason.

[StrangeSox]

I never said the electoral college was perfect, just statewide as long as counties have their own government a popular vote isn't a better solution.

I never said the electoral college was perfect, just countywide as long as cities have their own government a popular vote isn't a better solution.

 

[GoodAsGould]

Why do people quote things and change words, you can make a point without coming off as an asshole.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

i didn't mean to come off dickish there, it was a quicker way of making the point.

[caulfield12]

I believe after a weak recovery we're in for another recession in '13-'14. I would have preferred not to have a lame-duck President in office over the next four years.

 

 

We were definitely going to be in for another recession if we went over the financial cliff.

 

That happening is a LOT less likely in an Obama 2nd term than a Romney first term.

 

There's absolutely zero reason to believe that the country can "grow" it's way out of $16 trillion in debt by LOWERING tax rates. It has been tried 2-3 times already.

 

And the last time we had a truly successful and expanding economy was under Clinton. One of the biggest reasons for the budgets to be balanced back then was capital gains taxes, yet another area where the Republicans believe it's "unreasonable" to be taxed.

 

In the end, talking about 2016, too many variables are in play to say that the Dems are set up for a nice run...the demographics trends (young people, women, minorities expanding) definitely are aligned for them.

 

But as we saw with the Vietnam War in the 60's (breaking the JFK/LBJ run), Watergate, the Iranian Hostage Crisis/inflation/fuel shortages, the LA riots and recession of the early 90's (combined with Bush looking out of touch and Ross Perot's siphoning off votes that would have gone more GOP), the make-up of the Supreme Court in 2000 (as much as some argue there's no way Obama should have won a 2nd terms, there's no way that Bush should have won back then because the economy was doing so well, but Clinton had his scandal and also Gore distanced himself on purpose, which turned out to be a huge mistake, along with his "populist" war against the wealthy)...

 

There are just five million things that always get in the way of projecting "automatic" victories for Hillary...and it's not a slam dunk because of her age and the residual vitriol which the Clinton brand means for non-Dem's.

 

And Rubio looks in the best position to be formidable simply due to his being Hispanic, which nullifies the immigration issue and rebalance the equation voting-wise to 50/50 or favoring the GOP even....of course, he's got a great storyline/bio, one that is somewhat similar to Obama's (and some of it is hype and myth more than reality, like his "escape" from Castro's persecution).

[Soxbadger]

Cubans are already the most pro-Republican hispanic minority. Not sure that Rubio would resonate with Mexican or other latino immigrants.

 

(edit)

 

Jeb Bush on the other hand is married to Columba Gallo, who he met in Mexico. Right now Id say he is a pretty strong 2016 candidate, and purposefully did not run this election.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Soxbadger

[StrangeSox]

"being hispanic" doesn't nullify the immigration issue. Actually having policy that Hispanics like will nullify the immigration issue.

 

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/lar...-not-the-answer

The bigger flaw in that statement from Will is the assumption that this is something to be fixed by nominating the right sort of person, as if a party’s demographic appeal depended mainly on the personal history of its presidential candidates or other political leaders. If a party has little or nothing relevant to say to a certain constituency or group, the people at the top of the party won’t make any difference.

 

BTW, Obama won Cuban-Americans 49-47 in Florida.

 

[StrangeSox]

However, for me, I’m choosing another rather unique path; a personal boycott, if you will. Starting early this morning, I am going to un-friend every single individual on Facebook who voted for Obama, or I even suspect may have Democrat leanings. I will do the same in person. All family and friends, even close family and friends, who I know to be Democrats are hereby dead to me. I vow never to speak to them again for the rest of my life, or have any communications with them. They are in short, the enemies of liberty. They deserve nothing less than hatred and utter contempt

 

I strongly urge all other libertarians to do the same. Are you married to someone who voted for Obama, have a girlfriend who voted ‘O’. Divorce them. Break up with them without haste. Vow not to attend family functions, Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas for example, if there will be any family members in attendance who are Democrats

[mr_genius]

Otoh i read that on a three page South Carolina ballot, there were exactly four democrats, two of them being Obama and Biden. The other races were unopposed republicans.

 

Sounds like a Chicago ballot

[Jake]

If a Repub believes that Mexicans will automatically vote for someone because they are a Cuban...they have their head up their ass.

 

If the Mexican vote can be absorbed due to a Cuban running, then I'm going to get sick.

[mr_genius]

"being hispanic" doesn't nullify the immigration issue. Actually having policy that Hispanics like will nullify the immigration issue.

 

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/lar...-not-the-answer

 

 

BTW, Obama won Cuban-Americans 49-47 in Florida.

 

the establishment GOP thinks they can win by pandering to the 'latino' vote. it's the 2016 plan for them. but i doubt a establishment guy makes it out of the primary.

 

our democracy is now in the failure state of people merely voting for the most free stuff to their group. they are not voting to have a sustainable country/society. with this in mind, i have a plan in which the GOP is now going to be giving away special entitlements to the hard working white middle class voter. simply winning 65% of this vote equals a landslide win. i have been composing a list of free stuff they will get. once they have those entitlements, it will be impossible to take them away and they will vote GOP 4eva.

Edited November 8, 2012 by mr_genius

[Soxbadger]

"being hispanic" doesn't nullify the immigration issue. Actually having policy that Hispanics like will nullify the immigration issue.

 

Which is why you should keep an eye on Jeb Bush. His handlers were smart enough to keep him out of this election, but he could be tough in the future.