How is Marlins trade different from what the cubs are doing?

[southsider2k5]

Whats to say Miami doesn't plan on spending more massive amounts of money this offseason??

 

I'd hate for Hamilton to go there but whats to say he doesn't?

 

I could see ARod going home and playing there too.

 

[flippedoutpunk]

Um, because their owner is Jeffrey Loria.

 

Yeah, marlins fans have seen this guy at work enough to know what this is all really about.. Although I could see Arod coming, we do need a 3rd baseman, and a short stop, and a pitching staff, and a starting lineup.

[Dick Allen]

I don't know what this means, he spent a boatload last year...they didn't work out and Lorias obviously impatient.

 

 

Im not saying that they WILL but I dont see why not.

No one will want to play there. If they won't give a no trade, if you make any money and they don't win, you will go. If somehow you do get a no trade, they will strip the rest of the team if they are not winning, and making a big profit.

Edited November 14, 2012 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

No one will want to play there. If they won't give a no trade, if you make any money and they don't win, you will go. If somehow you do get a no trade, they will strip the rest of the team if they are not winning, and making a big profit.

 

Playing for the Marlins is like hiring in with a temp agency. It is good enough until you can find a real job.

[Kyyle23]

I don't know what this means, he spent a boatload last year...they didn't work out and Lorias obviously impatient.

 

 

Im not saying that they WILL but I dont see why not.

 

I'd love to be the Marlins GM right now.

 

It was a ruse.

[ewokpelts]

I hate to defend the cubs, but they are rebuilding as management changed hands. Most of the bad paper the cubs hold were John McDonough (under orders from the Tribune) opening the checkbook for Hendry. Flash forward 5 years, and you have a different owner, different team president, different GM, different manager. Most of the Marlins senior leadership that participated in the 2006 dumping is the same as 2012.

 

Now, what the tribsters did is the same as loria, but they were trying to sell the team to a sucker(they succeeded).

[Soxfest]

I hate the Cubs, but what they are doing is not even remotely the same as the Marlins fire sale part 2.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I hate the Cubs, but what they are doing is not even remotely the same as the Marlins fire sale part 2.

 

What exactly are the Cubs doing?

[LittleHurt05]

What exactly are the Cubs doing?

 

Putting a bad team on the field in 2012, 2013, & 2014 and possibly later years, so that Theo can build the organization his way from the bottom up. Then the Cubs will be competitive every single year, or so he claims.

[Kyyle23]

What exactly are the Cubs doing?

 

rebuilding with the intention of contending to create more money for an extended period of time. Not making of pretend show of contending to build up the value of the franchise then shoving it in everyones faces and ditching the entire payroll so you can collect revenue sharing and tv money deal and keep it to yourself.

 

It isnt hard to figure out, i dont know why you arent getting this.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Putting a bad team on the field in 2012, 2013, & 2014 and possibly later years, so that Theo can build the organization his way from the bottom up. Then the Cubs will be competitive every single year, or so he claims.

 

So grabbing the #2, 5, & 7 prospect from the best farm system in baseball isn't doing the same thing?

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

So grabbing the #2, 5, & 7 prospect from the best farm system in baseball isn't doing the same thing?

 

 

I think you missed the competitive every season comment. Loria doesn't care about winning every year. He wants to make as much money as possible, while he might run into a good season or two. I agree he did make his team better for the future, but it's not part of some grand plan to be a great baseball organization.

 

The Cubs are trying to clean out the previous regime's mess and create their own system so that they can win every year.

[dpd9189]

I think Loria is a complete scumbag but I really don't feel bad for guys like Reyes and Buehrle. The Marlins have done this twice before and people were joking last offseason that it would only be a matter of time before Epic Firesale #3 happened. Those guys knew the history of the Marlins under Loria and decided to sign there anyways, the one smart guy was Pujols who didn't sign there even though they offered him more $$$ than the Angels or StL. If I remember right he didn't sign with the Marlins because they wouldn't give him a NTC. He knew what these guys were all about.

 

But back to the topic at hand this is totally different then what the Cubs are doing. Also any big time free agents in future years won't even consider the Marlins.

[Harry Chappas]

Loria could be a complete douche but the Marlin fans did not show up when they won and had a terrible stadium he got a brand new stadium built spent a ton of dough on the team last year and they still did not show up.

 

The Florida fans deserve whatever they get.

 

They have two championships and zeero fan base.

 

The state of Florida should not have professional sports.

[Kyyle23]

Loria could be a complete douche but the Marlin fans did not show up when they won and had a terrible stadium he got a brand new stadium built spent a ton of dough on the team last year and they still did not show up.

 

The Florida fans deserve whatever they get.

 

They have two championships and zeero fan base.

 

The state of Florida should not have professional sports.

 

Transplant states like Arizona and Florida seem to have a lot of problems establishing their own fanbase. Lots of retirees and people who still identify with where they grew up before they moved to the warmer climates.

[max power]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new marlins team out perform last years team, or the team contend two or three years from now, so I am not going to condemn Loria for what he did or pretend I know what motivates him. The fact is, they are a highly successful franchise when it comes to winning it all and overcome major shortcomings to do so. Once while loria was the owner.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2012 by MAX

[beautox]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new marlins team out perform last years team, or the team contend two or three years from now, so I am not going to condemn Loria for what he did or pretend I know what motivates him. The fact is, they are a highly successful franchise when it comes to winning it all and overcome major shortcomings to do so. Once while loria was the owner.

 

I agree as a marlins fan myself i truly hate Loria from a fandom stand point; but his scouts and front office consistently overcome the obstacles Jeffery throws at them. Having said that I expect them to move the following this offseason Stanton, Nolasco and Escobar. I imagine they will wait for Morrison, Coghlan and Sanchez to re-establish their value before they move them midseason and rebuilding once again. Having said that i fully expect them to get a haul for Stanton; honestly i would love to see him dealt to texas for profar, olt and martin.

[LittleHurt05]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see the new marlins team out perform last years team, or the team contend two or three years from now, so I am not going to condemn Loria for what he did or pretend I know what motivates him. The fact is, they are a highly successful franchise when it comes to winning it all and overcome major shortcomings to do so. Once while loria was the owner.

 

Obviously winning the WS is everyone's goal, so I don't want to take away the significance of their titles. But in 20 years of the franchise, those were their only two playoff berths and neither time did they win the division. But twice they got hot at the right time, so suddenly they are among the top 5 franchises in WS over the past 20 years, while being run like a clown college.

[Balta1701]

I agree as a marlins fan myself i truly hate Loria from a fandom stand point; but his scouts and front office consistently overcome the obstacles Jeffery throws at them. Having said that I expect them to move the following this offseason Stanton, Nolasco and Escobar. I imagine they will wait for Morrison, Coghlan and Sanchez to re-establish their value before they move them midseason and rebuilding once again. Having said that i fully expect them to get a haul for Stanton; honestly i would love to see him dealt to texas for profar, olt and martin.

Worth considering though...the Marlins latest rebuilding project wound up seemingly peaking around 2008-2009, and it was only good enough to get them over .500, but not good enough to put them in the playoffs this time. They've been under .500 for 5 of the last 7 years, since the 2005 teardown happened, and this time, their scouting and trades weren't good enough to put them up on top.

[YASNY]

We spend entirely too much time discussing the freaking Marlins around here. Right this minute, 3 of the 4 threads at the top of this Forum are Marlins oriented. Ozzie fired, Buehrle traded and this one. I mean this franchise is the the National League East for Crissake and a s***ty team to boot. They are the epitome of the word irrelevent.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

We spend entirely too much time discussing the freaking Marlins around here. Right this minute, 3 of the 4 threads at the top of this Forum are Marlins oriented. Ozzie fired, Buehrle traded and this one. I mean this franchise is the the National League East for Crissake and a s***ty team to boot. They are the epitome of the word irrelevent.

 

Our former and most polarizing manager in team history, our greatest pitcher in team history, and one of the largest and controversial trades in league history, or at least recent memory.

 

I don't see the surprise.

[LittleHurt05]

We spend entirely too much time discussing the freaking Marlins around here. Right this minute, 3 of the 4 threads at the top of this Forum are Marlins oriented. Ozzie fired, Buehrle traded and this one. I mean this franchise is the the National League East for Crissake and a s***ty team to boot. They are the epitome of the word irrelevent.

 

I find discussing the Marlins much more interesting than talking about 4 guys I never heard of getting added to the 40-man roster or listening to multiple people discuss trades for Chase Headley that will never ever happen.

[Quin]

Our former and most polarizing manager in team history, our greatest pitcher in team history, and one of the largest and controversial trades in league history, or at least recent memory.

 

I don't see the surprise.

 

While I love Mark, I have him #5. I don't think I'd put him #1.

 

1) Ed Walsh

2) Ted Lyons

3) Billy Pierce

4) Red Faber

5) Mark Buehrle

 

Now, you can argue he's 3rd, but Walsh and Lyons are pretty untouchable as 1-2.

 

Walsh has the lowest ERA ever. Sure, dead-ball era, but he was one of the best pitchers in the era of best pitchers.

 

As for Lyons...

 

"He never appeared in a postseason game, as the generally mediocre-to-poor White Sox were usually far behind the American League leaders during his career. In Lyons' 21 seasons with the Sox, they finished fifth or lower (in an eight-team league) 16 times, and never finished higher than third. New York Yankees manager Joe McCarthy said, "If he'd pitched for the Yankees, he would have won over 400 games."

Edited November 26, 2012 by Quinarvy

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

While I love Mark, I have him #5. I don't think I'd put him #1.

 

1) Ed Walsh

2) Ted Lyons

3) Billy Pierce

4) Red Faber

5) Mark Buehrle

 

Now, you can argue he's 3rd, but Walsh and Lyons are pretty untouchable as 1-2.

 

Walsh has the lowest ERA ever. Sure, dead-ball era, but he was one of the best pitchers in the era of best pitchers.

 

As for Lyons...

 

"He never appeared in a postseason game, as the generally mediocre-to-poor White Sox were usually far behind the American League leaders during his career. In Lyons' 21 seasons with the Sox, they finished fifth or lower (in an eight-team league) 16 times, and never finished higher than third. New York Yankees manager Joe McCarthy said, "If he'd pitched for the Yankees, he would have won over 400 games."

 

Ok, fine, semantics. "One of our best pitchers in team history." The point is still the same, Mark Buehrle is kind of a big deal to us, I'm not surprised people would still care to talk about him.

[chw42]

Miami flat out lied to their fans repeatedly. The Cubs have done no such thing.

 

Hah, they might not have not lied verbally, but Cubs fans have been believing a lie for the past 100 or so years. Haha.