Interview: Hector Santiago

[Eminor3rd]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/q...rewball-artist/

 

Hector Santiago reads FanGraphs and throws a screwball. The former puts the Chicago White Sox southpaw in the minority among big-league players. The latter makes him quite unique.

 

A handful of present-day hurlers pull the occasional screwball out of their back pocket, but none feature the pitch. Santiago doesn’t either, but if he wins a job in the starting rotation next season — a distinct possibility — there is a good chance it will become his signature offering.

 

The 24-year-old New Jersey native worked out of the bullpen in 42 of his 46 appearances this year, which impacted his repertoire. As he explained during a visit to Fenway Park, “It‘s tough to come in for one inning and throw screwballs. As a starter, you have more opportunities to throw it.”

 

Santiago wants to start, and knows what he needs to do to earn that role. Along with reintroducing more screwballs to his mix, he said he needs to “work on a two-seam fastball, something that is going to sink down out of the zone, so I can get more ground balls.” His GB-rate was 38.2, which he’s well aware of. He hasn’t yet established himself as a starter, but he’s already a stat-savvy screwball artist.

 

—–

 

Santiago on his repertoire and approach: “I basically try to go after hitters and hit my spots. I’m a guy who is mostly on the inner half to right-handers and away to lefties. I try to get it down and in to righties and down and away to lefties, and let them basically get themselves out. How my ball moves is a big part of how I pitch.

 

“I watch at a lot of video, especially when I’m getting hit, or when I’m missing and think some of the pitches are balls or strikes. I go back and check the k-zone to see how the pitches were moving and where they finished up. That’s especially true on my off-speed. I feel that I can see pretty well on my fastball — where it’s going to go and where it lands — but with my off-speed, sometimes I think it’s a good pitch, just off the plate, and when I go back in, it’s more on the plate than I expected. When I get hurt is when I‘m missing over the middle of the plate. That‘s when they‘ll run into it.

 

“When I came into pro ball, I was a one-pitch guy. They helped me develop a changeup, and I started to be able to spin a slider in there. I can work in other pitches now. I can throw my changeup for a strike, or out of the zone, I have a cutter now. I can throw my slider early in the count or behind in the count, although it’s still a work in progress. And then there’s my screwball.”

 

On his screwball: “Last year, my screwball was the reason I had crazy success and got called up to the big leagues. It was like they fell in love with it. It’s a great pitch that can trick hitters. I can have hitters off-balance and sometimes I‘ll even fool umpires. It will be coming like a right-handed curveball with a mix of left-handed changeup in there. It will be 12-to-6 with a circle changeup dive, down and away.

 

“When I’m throwing it well, I’ll get swings and misses over the top, and ground balls. I’ve had guys asking after the pitch, ‘What was that?’ It’s something weird, something unique. I’m not sure, but I might be the only person in the big leagues right now who throws it.

 

“I started throwing it in winter ball, coming into the 2011 season. I figured I wasn’t in the big leagues with the stuff I had, so it wasn’t going to hurt me. It couldn’t push me back, it could only make me better and give me that little something extra in my arsenal to hopefully push me to the big leagues. It worked out.

 

“In 2008, my first year of winter ball, I played with a guy named Angel Miranda. He threw one. I used to play catch with him every day, and I learned my changeup there. One day in 2010, I decided to try some out in a game. I started throwing it in bullpens, then went into a game one day and the first five guys I faced, I was ahead either 1-2 or 0-2. I threw it every time I had two strikes and I had five strikeouts with it. I was like, ‘Wow, I guess this can be a really effective pitch.’ I kind of ran with it and took it into my season as a starter. It worked out great.

 

“When I came to spring training, I threw some in front of Buddy Bell and Cappy [Nick Capra] and a couple of other pitching coaches. Kirk Champion, Curt Hasler, and Coop [Don Cooper] were there. Once I was done with my bullpen, Buddy Bell came up to me. He said, ‘Hey, when anybody asks you, let them know I showed you how to throw it.’ It was pretty funny.

 

“I grip it like a two-seam changeup. I put my middle finger and my ring finger right on top of the seams to be able to pull them through. I’ll try to get over the top of it, just like you would a curveball, if you‘re throwing a curveball 12-to-6. It’s just the opposite way. It’s like a curveball reversed. I get on top of it, and try to be inside of it as much as I can. When I was tossing it to Miranda, he said I had a perfect arm slot. I’m high three-quarters, which gives me a good chance to get on top of the ball.

 

“It’s similar to a changeup and the only way I can see a hitter picking it up is if I slow my arm down. From the times I’ve thrown it, I’ve seen people kind of fall forward on it and not even see it coming. There’s a big difference in velocity. There’s almost a 20 mph difference between my fastball and my screwball.”

 

——-

 

Tyler Flowers on Santiago‘s screwball: “I feel like I pull it out more in games than A.J. [Pierzynski] does, although that might be coincidence from getting more situations to use it. It’s kind of amazing to catch and amazing that someone can actually get a ball to spin that much, and that strong, in the direction that it does. He gets it to roll over like a right-handed slider, almost. He doesn’t throw it as hard, obviously, but the spin is virtually the same as a right-hander’s slider. I’ve never seen anybody do that, and I know there haven’t been too many guys that can actually throw that pitch and be effective with it. It’s a great pitch for him. It’s a kind of an equalizer.

 

“The majority of the time, the hitter is surprised. At the same time, if you hang that pitch and it’s elevated, belt and above, there’s not a lot behind it when it’s that high and slow. But when it’s down in the zone, it’s very deceptive. It almost appears to never get to the plate. It looks good out of the hand — ‘OK, it’s coming’ — and then kind of dives at the end. Guys will be completely fooled, swinging with one hand, trying to just touch the ball, because they’ve already committed. It’s very deceptive.”

[TaylorStSox]

Flowers" quote is interesting. Maybe it's just me, and I'm not sure if there are stats to back this up, but Tyler seems a lot more creative in his pitch calling. He seems to call a lot more breaking balls in hitter's counts and 3/2 counts. He also seems to call for more balls in the dirt. Are there stats to back this up?

[The Ultimate Champion]

Hector has the exact mindset you want out of a pitcher. Nice read & thanks for posting. Lots of new topics on SoxTalk this morning, it almost makes it look like our FO hasn't been sitting on their hands or something. Make a trade dadgummit.

[Cali]

Hector needs to be starting in 2013

[YASNY]

This kind of insight from Flowers, along with what I have heard that the pitching staff on his pitch calling and the organization on his overall catching skills have been saying is why I believe Flowers is ready for the full time job behind the plate. I'll take what offense I can get from him if he can handle that staff and infield leadership position a catcher needs.

[TaylorStSox]

This kind of insight from Flowers, along with what I have heard that the pitching staff on his pitch calling and the organization on his overall catching skills have been saying is why I believe Flowers is ready for the full time job behind the plate. I'll take what offense I can get from him if he can handle that staff and infield leadership position a catcher needs.

Peavy preferring Flowers behind the plate is all the endorsement I need.

[Chicago White Sox]

Honestly, I want to see Hector as the #5 starter and Flowers as our regular catcher. Use Floyd or Quintana to help fill the need at 3B or get a left-handed bat (ideally both). If Santiago falters so be it, we'd at least have Axelrod as insurance, but I really think Santiago has legitimate #3 starter potential.

 

And I have no problem letting A.J. walk, as Flowers is already the superior defensive catcher and I think his bat will greatly improve with regular playing time, while A.J.'s is due for some serious regression. I actually think Flowers could be a more valuable player next year, before even accounting for salary.

[southsider2k5]

Peavy preferring Flowers behind the plate is all the endorsement I need.

 

I'd be shocked if Jake and AJ really liked each other at all.

[YASNY]

I'd be shocked if Jake and AJ really liked each other at all.

 

They both seem to be bullheaded which reinforces your statement. Still, I'll stand by my previous post.

[southsider2k5]

They both seem to be bullheaded which reinforces your statement. Still, I'll stand by my previous post.

 

And they have had a couple of go arounds in front of the cameras. Who knows what has happened in the lockerroom.

[JoshPR]

Flowers" quote is interesting. Maybe it's just me, and I'm not sure if there are stats to back this up, but Tyler seems a lot more creative in his pitch calling. He seems to call a lot more breaking balls in hitter's counts and 3/2 counts. He also seems to call for more balls in the dirt. Are there stats to back this up?

I said the same thing in game threads in the past, Gavin pitched better with flowers and farmio mentioned it a lot, but I got called crazy here and all people were throwing at me was AJ's offensive season. How many times did AJ call bad sliders from Gavin when the curve was working? That's just a small sample, but all people threw at me were the damn sabermetrics bulls***.

[Rooftop Shots]

Peavy preferring Flowers behind the plate is all the endorsement I need.

 

Well one main reason for Peavy liking Flowers is not just for his game callling, but mainly so Peavy can controll the show. AJ obviously has a game calling plan with every batter. The guy does his homework and takes pride in helping a young staff.(just like Fisk used to with Hoyt, Burns, Bannister, etc) The problem.......... both him and Peavy like to call the shots. In essence Flowers being a "kid" and Peavy a successful veteran..............he can shake him off if and when he pleases and throw what he wants. Flowers can be to Peavy what DJ was to Hawk in the booth. Peavy and Hawk are 2 people who want their way and a puppet to follow and thats that. Does the pitcher have the right to call off a catcher?? Absolutely. A pitcher may just not have the FEEL for certain pitches on that day. But in essence the catcher (especially a veteran who knows a lot of the hitters and is a proven veteran) should be the "Main" Game Caller. And thats where AJ and Peavy Butt heads. BOTH want CONTROL ........................and unless they are BOTH on the same page as to their approach.................yes Conflict will always be there.

Sooo if we dont sign AJ......... then welcome aboard "D.J." (OOOPS.........I mean Flowers!!!)

[mmmmmbeeer]

It's pretty funny reading posts about having Flowers start because he's a good catcher and we'll take whatever he can muster on offense.....when we traded for him, it was the exact opposite....big bat but a horrible catcher. Really speaks volumes about how much work this kid has put into his game.

 

Great read on Hector. Knowing that he appreciates and studies the "art" of pitching, as opposed to just going out there and throwing, makes me want to root for him even more.

[Eminor3rd]

I said the same thing in game threads in the past, Gavin pitched better with flowers and farmio mentioned it a lot, but I got called crazy here and all people were throwing at me was AJ's offensive season. How many times did AJ call bad sliders from Gavin when the curve was working? That's just a small sample, but all people threw at me were the damn sabermetrics bulls***.

 

Lol, what the hell does any of that have to do with sabermetrics?

[YASNY]

Lol, what the hell does any of that have to do with sabermetrics?

 

I think you just proved his point.

[Eminor3rd]

I think you just proved his point.

 

[witesoxfan]

Lol, what the hell does any of that have to do with sabermetrics?

 

 

I think you just proved his point.

 

I'd like to see the posts in question to see what exactly was being deemed sabermetrics. It's entirely possible, but there's no sabermetric stat that tracks "bad sliders" (though there are statistics that track pitch-type usage, which suggest that either Floyd doesn't throw a slider, or that his slider and cutter have been confused for 4 years now).

Edited November 19, 2012 by witesoxfan

[Dick Allen]

I'm sure this doesn't mean anything because wins and losses apparently are an overrated stat, but the Sox won a higher percentage of their games when AJP caught vs. games Flowers caught.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Dick Allen

[cabiness42]

I'm sure this doesn't mean anything because wins and losses apparently are an overrated stat, but the Sox won a higher percentage of their games when AJP caught vs. games Flowers caught.

 

The question is how much of that can be attributed to AJ's hitting compared to his game-calling? There was no question the Sox lineup was better with AJ.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'm sure this doesn't mean anything because wins and losses apparently are an overrated stat, but the Sox won a higher percentage of their games when AJP caught vs. games Flowers caught.

 

 

The question is how much of that can be attributed to AJ's hitting compared to his game-calling? There was no question the Sox lineup was better with AJ.

 

CERA may help with that, since it focuses purely on the ERA of pitchers they are catching. And since most of the time, catchers don't come in with runners on base, ERA should be a pretty good metric. In 2012...

 

AJ CERA: 4.08

TF CERA: 4.07

 

Of course, Flowers' numbers are a problem somewhat due to small sample size. But in general, it appears that the results during games they caught from their pitchers were very similar.

 

Another question to ask with this may be, which pitchers did they tend to catch? Did one of them catch Sale and Peavy more often (relatively)? Did another one have to catch 1st half Humber or 2nd half Quintana more often?

 

[witesoxfan]

CERA may help with that, since it focuses purely on the ERA of pitchers they are catching. And since most of the time, catchers don't come in with runners on base, ERA should be a pretty good metric. In 2012...

 

AJ CERA: 4.08

TF CERA: 4.07

 

Of course, Flowers' numbers are a problem somewhat due to small sample size. But in general, it appears that the results during games they caught from their pitchers were very similar.

 

Another question to ask with this may be, which pitchers did they tend to catch? Did one of them catch Sale and Peavy more often (relatively)? Did another one have to catch 1st half Humber or 2nd half Quintana more often?

 

This is the biggest flaw with CERA, because it doesn't hold anything constant.

 

If someone had time, the thing to do would be to compare the performances of common pitchers and compare the results, and even that isn't fail safe (due to strength of offenses and park factors). And even then, there's nothing objective about one being a better game caller than the other because some will prefer throwing to AJ, others to Flowers.

 

What could be tracked would be the amount and types of pitches thrown to each catcher, which would give a basic idea of what type of pitches each catcher calls for.

[southsider2k5]

This is the biggest flaw with CERA, because it doesn't hold anything constant.

 

If someone had time, the thing to do would be to compare the performances of common pitchers and compare the results, and even that isn't fail safe (due to strength of offenses and park factors). And even then, there's nothing objective about one being a better game caller than the other because some will prefer throwing to AJ, others to Flowers.

 

What could be tracked would be the amount and types of pitches thrown to each catcher, which would give a basic idea of what type of pitches each catcher calls for.

 

It would be interesting to see a stat done that takes the pitchers ERA and gives a plus or minus to the catcher based on what the pitchers performance was.

[Eminor3rd]

It would be interesting to see a stat done that takes the pitchers ERA and gives a plus or minus to the catcher based on what the pitchers performance was.

 

You'd have to control for the quality of the pitcher and have lots of instances where pitcher's pitched a ton to different catchers. I think you'd have a very small sample of data and possibly no one would end up a standard deviation above or below average.

 

Good idea though. Might be worth requesting this type of research from some of the writers at BP or FanGraphs.

[southsider2k5]

You'd have to control for the quality of the pitcher and have lots of instances where pitcher's pitched a ton to different catchers. I think you'd have a very small sample of data and possibly no one would end up a standard deviation above or below average.

 

Good idea though. Might be worth requesting this type of research from some of the writers at BP or FanGraphs.

 

The catchers stat wouldn't be reflective of the pitchers quality per se.

 

For example, Pitcher A has an ERA of 4.50. When Catcher A catches for them, their ERA was 4.00. When catcher B catches for them, their ERA was 5.00.

 

Catcher A would have a ERA difference of +.50. Catcher B would be at -.50. Taken over the course of a season, it should equalize out to give a pretty good number based not on who they catch, but how much better or worse they are on average, when a particular catcher is behind the plate.

[Eminor3rd]

The catchers stat wouldn't be reflective of the pitchers quality per se.

 

For example, Pitcher A has an ERA of 4.50. When Catcher A catches for them, their ERA was 4.00. When catcher B catches for them, their ERA was 5.00.

 

Catcher A would have a ERA difference of +.50. Catcher B would be at -.50. Taken over the course of a season, it should equalize out to give a pretty good number based not on who they catch, but how much better or worse they are on average, when a particular catcher is behind the plate.

 

That would indeed be controlling for quality of pitcher, by using the pitcher's average. I understand now.

 

You should make it happen