Ode to the Steriod Era

[southsider2k5]

Part of the reason behind this is there is no correlation between shoulder muscle strength and your velocity. The strength needed for a pitcher is to have the shoulder remain stable through the pitching motion. This is the job of the rotator cuff and biceps tendon. It may be that the overall strength of the body makes your velocity increase as most of the power from a pitch really comes from the legs and back. However there are so many muscles and thus variables that it would be difficult to show a correlation.

Pitchers generally don't lift weights like a hitter to put on mass. This will decrease the flexibility no matter how much you stretch. They strengthen for endurance (lower weights higher reps) or with therabands. This allows them to keep the flexibility necessary to keep the large range needed to perform the pitching motion. This does not produce the massive increase in strength from PEDs but more endurance and recovery.

The primary purpose of PEDs really is to allow the body to work out harder and more often. If you took PEDs but didn't workout it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

In the 80's powerlifters at the Olympic level would lift a body segment 3x/wk. Today most of them are clean and only lift hard 1x/wk for a body segment.

 

Did you read this story when it came out? How do you feel about it?

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/maga...oids/index.html

[ptatc]

Gagne is the best example I can give of a guy who was incredible on the juice and seemingly flamed out right afterwards. If that's just improvement in his workouts, that's fine, whatever the mechanism is, that's a guy who came out of no where, threw 100, then flamed out.

 

Clemens is an interesting case and if we had the same data now as then I bet it would actually show up if you plotted his average velocity...because if he's recovering better, getting better workouts in-between outings, and in the offseason, it might not have made him throw hard on a single pitch, but it could have given him a higher average velocity by allowing him to endure better. Imagine Verlander except it doesn't tire him out to throw 100 all the time so he doesn't need to save anything.

The being able to have the velocity and endurance longer is definitely true. Some of the increased velocity could be linked to overall body strength as I said earlier. since there are so many variables involved it may just be to difficult to prove. However, some of it may be due to the "rage" effect as well ,especially for a reliever who only needs to do it for a short period of time.

[ptatc]

Did you read this story when it came out? How do you feel about it?

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/maga...oids/index.html

That is a common story for people who abuse the PEDs. If you take too much these are the things that cn happen. If you figure out what dosage will help your performance but not really change your personality too much (it will change some) these things don't always happen. This guy had an addictive personality to begin with shown by the alcohol abuse, so it's not surprising he abused the PEDs. He probably liked the way they made him feel more than the performance enhancement. This can be why some people use them who are not competitive athletes. They like the way it makes them look and feel.

[TaylorStSox]

That is a common story for people who abuse the PEDs. If you take too much these are the things that cn happen. If you figure out what dosage will help your performance but not really change your personality too much (it will change some) these things don't always happen. This guy had an addictive personality to begin with shown by the alcohol abuse, so it's not surprising he abused the PEDs. He probably liked the way they made him feel more than the performance enhancement. This can be why some people use them who are not competitive athletes. They like the way it makes them look and feel.

Imo, velocity is very similar to power in boxing. You can achieve slight gains by gaining strength and refining mechanics, but ultimately, it's something you're born with. I'm always skeptical of scouting reports that say a kid has the frame to add velocity. Sure, it happens, but it's rare.

 

Again, I think the main catalyst in the offensive spike was the ball. It was physically very different than the old balls and even the balls used in Japan. That's part of what makes Pedros achievements so remarkable. He was able to get extreme movement on a seamless ball on a variety of pitches. He also had a physical advantage. He had extremely long fingers relative to his hand. He could also bend his fingers back to his wrist. It enabled him to hold the ball longer and achieve greater spin.

 

Edit. I didn't mean to quote your post ptatc.

Edited December 11, 2012 by TaylorStSox

[Jake]

I've been around a fair amount of steroid users, some of whom use more than can be used safely, and I just haven't observed marked changes in behavior. I have seen assholes be assholes, but I don't buy the whole roid rage thing. Way overstated.

 

I also think ptatc summed up the concept of pitchers and steroids pretty damn well. It might sorta kinda add velocity, but strength is a surprisingly small part of the equation. My guess, like has been said, any increases in velocity were more related to the pitcher feeling healthy than having added on to his God-given strength. There is of course a huge performance boost just in feeling healthy day after day.

[TaylorStSox]

Steroids enable a guy like Gagne to throw 30 high impact pitches and wake up the next day and not feel like his arm is going to fall off. Then do the same thing that night.

[ptatc]

Imo, velocity is very similar to power in boxing. You can achieve slight gains by gaining strength and refining mechanics, but ultimately, it's something you're born with. I'm always skeptical of scouting reports that say a kid has the frame to add velocity. Sure, it happens, but it's rare.

 

Again, I think the main catalyst in the offensive spike was the ball. It was physically very different than the old balls and even the balls used in Japan. That's part of what makes Pedros achievements so remarkable. He was able to get extreme movement on a seamless ball on a variety of pitches. He also had a physical advantage. He had extremely long fingers relative to his hand. He could also bend his fingers back to his wrist. It enabled him to hold the ball longer and achieve greater spin.

 

Edit. I didn't mean to quote your post ptatc.

The guy who had the longest fingers relative to his size that I ever met was Jack McDowell. This was why he had that great splitter. He was just an anatomic freak. I've seen other pitchers have surgery to cut the web space between their fingers to have more "split" but no one matched his.

[witesoxfan]

The guy who had the longest fingers relative to his size that I ever met was Jack McDowell. This was why he had that great splitter. He was just an anatomic freak. I've seen other pitchers have surgery to cut the web space between their fingers to have more "split" but no one matched his.

 

Learn something new everyday.