Balta1701 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 04:44 PM) From 1996 through 1999 - ages 19-22 for AJ - he never OPS'd better than .718. He did have OPS's better than .800 - during his 2nd time in rookie ball and his 3rd time in AAA. That just proves that you don't have to dominate to be good or effective. However, you act as if Flowers was mediocre in the minors. He had 1 season below an .838 OPS, and 4 of his 6 seasons were .866 or better, leaving him with a career split in the minors of .275/.391/.484/.876. Mike Napoli showed better home run potential, but I honestly don't think that comparison is too far off. Flowers needs to play regularly, and I do think he can be a really, really good hitter for the Sox. No, you don't have to dominate to be good or effective. But if you want to get a quality catcher out of your way, and convince the team to clear you a spot, you better dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 06:00 PM) No, you don't have to dominate to be good or effective. But if you want to get a quality catcher out of your way, and convince the team to clear you a spot, you better dominate. Or have that catcher get old and expensive while your team is up against a payroll wall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 06:00 PM) No, you don't have to dominate to be good or effective. But if you want to get a quality catcher out of your way, and convince the team to clear you a spot, you better dominate. 4 out of 6 years with an OPS of .866 or better and a career OPS in the minors of .876 along with a second half OPS .840 (even in very limited plate appearances) tells me that they need to give the guy a shot. Bring in a good veteran backstop who you know will work well with the pitching staff as an insurance policy and consider the catching situation taken care of. At some point, the guy's going to have to sink or swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 06:22 PM) 4 out of 6 years with an OPS of .866 or better and a career OPS in the minors of .876 along with a second half OPS .840 (even in very limited plate appearances) tells me that they need to give the guy a shot. Bring in a good veteran backstop who you know will work well with the pitching staff as an insurance policy and consider the catching situation taken care of. At some point, the guy's going to have to sink or swim. I agree and I imagine the brass wants to give Tyler AT LEAST one year behind the plate. A lot of good White Sox people have invested a lot of time and energy into Mr. Flowers, and from all accounts he works his dick off. AJ doesn't have to retire here to be part of the Sox family forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Rick stop sitting on your Hahn's or I'm gonna start calling you Goldie you little f***er. At this point I don't even care if you trade Chris Sale to the Twins for a bag of balls, just do something. I'm not a football fan & I don't give a crap about the Bulls ATM. I don't even know what hockey is. Do something already because I miss my sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 06:22 PM) 4 out of 6 years with an OPS of .866 or better and a career OPS in the minors of .876 along with a second half OPS .840 (even in very limited plate appearances) tells me that they need to give the guy a shot. Bring in a good veteran backstop who you know will work well with the pitching staff as an insurance policy and consider the catching situation taken care of. At some point, the guy's going to have to sink or swim. I agree give him a fair shake behind the dish; his second half was very encouraging from Jul 3, 2012 to Oct 2, 2012 he put up this line .244/.326/.476 .802OPS his babip was reasonable at .326. His season pace at that rate looks like this 28HR, 44BB/168SO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (beautox @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 08:59 PM) I agree give him a fair shake behind the dish; his second half was very encouraging from Jul 3, 2012 to Oct 2, 2012 he put up this line .244/.326/.476 .802OPS his babip was reasonable at .326. His season pace at that rate looks like this 28HR, 44BB/168SO. The strikeout rate just scares me a lot, over a full season against MLB pitching, and with him being a righty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 The real question is once things start to heat up, are you going to be happy with the moves that happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickofypres Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 08:18 PM) The real question is once things start to heat up, are you going to be happy with the moves that happen? What are you implying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 28, 2012 -> 09:55 PM) What are you implying? I know Rock has connections, but it seems to me that he is just playing to the general psyche and typically angry mob personality of the average sports fan in general where, unless it's an outstanding move, people will be upset and believe their team gave up too much. People ask for moves, moves are made, and then people are upset that moves were made. Just the general idea to hope that people don't talk out of both sides of their mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 rock, people want to discuss something... even if a move isn't popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Dan Bernstein's sources say there is a good chance the Sox make a blockbuster move. They say it is also very possible they do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 02:40 AM) I know Rock has connections, but it seems to me that he is just playing to the general psyche and typically angry mob personality of the average sports fan in general where, unless it's an outstanding move, people will be upset and believe their team gave up too much. People ask for moves, moves are made, and then people are upset that moves were made. Just the general idea to hope that people don't talk out of both sides of their mouth. Mostly. But I'm almost positive a trade of a well liked player will happen for what is going to be considered on here to be small returns. And then we'll wish it was quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 05:56 AM) Mostly. But I'm almost positive a trade of a well liked player will happen for what is going to be considered on here to be small returns. And then we'll wish it was quiet. Uh oh. That sounds like a move to clear salary. Are yu saying you're positive as in you have some info, or positive as in a good gut feeling? Either way, if it happens and the deal clears salary to sign a player we need, that would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 05:56 AM) Mostly. But I'm almost positive a trade of a well liked player will happen for what is going to be considered on here to be small returns. And then we'll wish it was quiet. You got a specific player in mind? Honestly, it almost sounds like you're referring to Paulie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 06:38 AM) You got a specific player in mind? Honestly, it almost sounds like you're referring to Paulie. That sounds like the type of move I'm sort of expecting. My assumption is that this well liked player makes money and the move is meant to free up some payroll, but also provide a younger player in return. I do think Gavin Floyd is a player to be moved,but I'm not sure he's a well liked one :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) Mostly. But I'm almost positive a trade of a well liked player will happen for what is going to be considered on here to be small returns. And then we'll wish it was quiet. Well-liked means probably not Rios, Dunn, or Beckham. Paulie is certainly well liked but I can't see him approving a trade to anywhere but Arizona. That leaves DeAza, Viciedo, and Ramirez as the most likely candidates, unless we're talking pitchers. It it is Paulie, though, that really isn't the worst thing in the world. Viciedo moves to 1B/DH with Dunn, and corner OF is certainly where the FA/trade market is strongest. I also think Paulie might be done. Edited November 29, 2012 by HickoryHuskers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 06:57 AM) That sounds like the type of move I'm sort of expecting. My assumption is that this well liked player makes money and the move is meant to free up some payroll, but also provide a younger player in return. I do think Gavin Floyd is a player to be moved,but I'm not sure he's a well liked one :-) Exactly, I can't think of anyone else that's well liked who makes a lot of money. I guess Ramirez makes sense, but there is no obvious replacement, unless Hahn thinks Beckham can play SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Exactly, I can't think of anyone else that's well liked who makes a lot of money. I guess Ramirez makes sense, but there is no obvious replacement, unless Hahn thinks Beckham can play SS. Beckham may be able to play an average SS, but he'll never be as good as Alexei there. At whatever point somebody else takes over for Alexei at SS, I think we'll all realize how awesome he really is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) How much money, realistically, do the White Sox have to play with? Aren't they at about 90 million already with around 8 guys? If they keep their payroll in the low 100's, that doesn't leave much room for resigning Youk/AJ without cutting elsewhere, not to mention, trying to improve the team.It depends on how successful their new ticketing policies work. I think if Kenny and Jerry feel the new ticket movies will increase revenue, then I think you'll see the payroll inch up. The good thing is there is a lot of unused 2012 playoff money sitting in ticketholder accounts(event eh 7 game plan buyers!) so I expect sales to be brisk enough to give Hahn cash to work with. That said, I think they'll go cheap at 3b, and possibly sign AJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 06:38 AM) You got a specific player in mind? Honestly, it almost sounds like you're referring to Paulie. Konerko was the first player I thought of as well. He fits the description best of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (spiderman @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 06:57 AM) That sounds like the type of move I'm sort of expecting. My assumption is that this well liked player makes money and the move is meant to free up some payroll, but also provide a younger player in return. I do think Gavin Floyd is a player to be moved,but I'm not sure he's a well liked one :-) Plus everyone expects Floyd to be dealt, so no one would be too upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Here is what is weird to me about the AJ situation... if you look at the noise on Twitter, MLBTR, and other places from the usual chatterboxes... the catchers being talked about all the time are Martin, Salty, and a few others. I have not seen AJ mentioned at ALL, except in reference to the Sox wanting him back but maybe not able to get him. I can't tell what that means, but I think it is interesting. My personal theory is that the teams looking for a C, at least some of them, may be scared off of him due to a combination of age and reputation. If I'm right, then the Sox will sign him late, and for cheaper than most of you are supposing. Of course, I could be wrong. As for Rock's intimation about a deal sending off a popular player... if it clear salary room, I think they will then quickly sign Youk for 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 29, 2012 -> 07:49 AM) Plus everyone expects Floyd to be dealt, so no one would be too upset. Plus most of this site during the season didn't think Floyd was worth his option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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