southsider2k5 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien White Sox name Daryl Boston 1st base coach, Bobby Thigpen bullpen coach. Harold Baines will be assistant hitting coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I miss the note that Baines is gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Brian @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) I miss the note that Baines is gone? That is new. Well he isn't completely gone, but will be the ast hitting coach instead of 1B coach anyway. Honestly, I think Boston is a better fit for the 1B job anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Sox are joining the new group of teams to have two hitting coaches, even if Baines is only an "assistant" hitting coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Hawk Harrelson was actually preaching teams needed 2 hitting coaches over 25 years ago. I wonder what this means for Gellinger. He was the assistant hitting coach. Will the Sox have 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 11:39 AM) Hawk Harrelson was actually preaching teams needed 2 hitting coaches over 25 years ago. I wonder what this means for Gellinger. He was the assistant hitting coach. Will the Sox have 2?having I watched the hitting coach work with q . at spring training they were working with the timing of the leg kick. I don't think it could hurt having 2 as long as they are not contradicting each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Chicago White Sox @whitesox Don Cooper, Jeff Manto, Joe McEwing, Mark Parent and Mark Salas return to complete the CWS coaching staff in 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 05:34 PM) Sox are joining the new group of teams to have two hitting coaches, even if Baines is only an "assistant" hitting coach. Why was this move made? Anyone have insight? Is it a promotion of sorts considering Harold's hitting history or did he not fit in as a coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Yay Thiggy...got his autograph when the Barons were here last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 And people were complaining about moves not being made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN #WhiteSox hitting coach Jeff Manto excited to work officially w/ 1-time teammate Harold Baines, his new asst. Jeff Manto said he leaned heavily on Harold Baines's opinion last season. "I trust him as much as I trust anyone." #WhiteSox #Orioles #MLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 07:23 PM) Dan Hayes @DanHayesCSN #WhiteSox hitting coach Jeff Manto excited to work officially w/ 1-time teammate Harold Baines, his new asst. Jeff Manto said he leaned heavily on Harold Baines's opinion last season. "I trust him as much as I trust anyone." #WhiteSox #Orioles #MLB The offseason might be time to legitimately discuss the actual value of a hitting coach aside from providing all the tools night and day for players: tapes, access to hitting apparatus, etc. We go from Walker to Manto, yet the team still was station to station and still only won when we hit home runs. Was there an improvement? Was there increased value? I say no. Players: Dunn - he did improve in home run bomb totals but still whiffed a ton and still had horrific batting average. Was Manto the reason he made contact 30 more times and got the ball up in the air? Maybe. Advantage Manto. Beckham - He stunk again. Manto made no difference. Lexi - He did not have a good year. Manto made no difference. Youk - As a veteran surely did not listen much to Manto. He definitely didn't revitalize his hitting under Manto. Manto made no difference. Viciedo - He had the same bad tendencies at the plate, swinging at everything, although amazingly he drew as many walks as Rios. He did not look like he had a clue at the plate, albeit only a rookie. Manto made no difference. DeAza - Decent enough year, but nothing special to make you think Manto created some special player. Manto made no difference. If you argue violently on this one, I'd be willing to give Manto some applause on DeAza. Rios - Is Rios Manto's guy? The guy who makes it seem as Manto is great? Or did Rios figure some things out on his own as a veteran? Advantage Manto. AJ - Had a nice power season. Is Manto the reason? Doubtful being AJ is a headstrung veteran, but we'll give it to Manto. Advantage Manto. Paulie - Was streakier than he's been, had that long long stretch of nothingness cause of injury probably. Definitely no better under Manto than Walker. Manto made no difference. Lilly - Terrible before we let him go. Manto made no difference. Hudson - No reclamation under Manto. Flowers - Did pretty well for a young guy but did he seem like a guy blossoming under a new hitting coach? No. Manto made no difference. So in conclusion did Dunn's increased home run totals and Rios' outstanding season and AJ's excellence mean Manto is some sort of guru? That he is that much better than Walker? Three veterans' improvement?? I say No. I say Walker and Manto are the same guy, folks. They are capable hitting coaches who provide the tools but it's the player who swings the bat. This is not an attack at Manto, but more a defense of Walker and more a commentary on the hitting coach position. It is my belief they don't matter that much. If they did, well, Manto has all offseason to fix Beckham, doesn't he? Edited November 27, 2012 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 01:38 PM) The offseason might be time to legitimately discuss the actual value of a hitting coach aside from providing all the tools night and day for players: tapes, access to hitting apparatus, etc. We go from Walker to Manto, yet the team still was station to station and still only won when we hit home runs. Was there an improvement? Was there increased value? I say no. Players: Dunn - he did improve in home run bomb totals but still whiffed a ton and still had horrific batting average. Was Manto the reason he made contact 30 more times and got the ball up in the air? Maybe. Advantage Manto. Beckham - He stunk again. Manto made no difference. Lexi - He did not have a good year. Manto made no difference. Youk - As a veteran surely did not listen much to Manto. He definitely didn't revitalize his hitting under Manto. Manto made no difference. Viciedo - He had the same bad tendencies at the plate, swinging at everything, although amazingly he drew as many walks as Rios. He did not look like he had a clue at the plate, albeit only a rookie. Manto made no difference. DeAza - Decent enough year, but nothing special to make you think Manto created some special player. Manto made no difference. If you argue violently on this one, I'd be willing to give Manto some applause on DeAza. Rios - Is Rios Manto's guy? The guy who makes it seem as Manto is great? Or did Rios figure some things out on his own as a veteran? Advantage Manto. AJ - Had a nice power season. Is Manto the reason? Doubtful being AJ is a headstrung veteran, but we'll give it to Manto. Advantage Manto. Paulie - Was streakier than he's been, had that long long stretch of nothingness cause of injury probably. Definitely no better under Manto than Walker. Manto made no difference. Lilly - Terrible before we let him go. Manto made no difference. Hudson - No reclamation under Manto. Flowers - Did pretty well for a young guy but did he seem like a guy blossoming under a new hitting coach? No. Manto made no difference. So in conclusion did Dunn's increased home run totals and Rios' outstanding season and AJ's excellence mean Manto is some sort of guru? That he is that much better than Walker? Three veterans' improvement?? I say No. I say Walker and Manto are the same guy, folks. They are capable hitting coaches who provide the tools but it's the player who swings the bat. This is not an attack at Manto, but more a defense of Walker and more a commentary on the hitting coach position. It is my belief they don't matter that much. If they did, well, Manto has all offseason to fix Beckham, doesn't he? I'm not sure I disagree with your ultimate conclusion, Greg, but what are you basing all of this on? How can you confidently gauge Manto's influence on these guys without any inside information? I posit that you cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 07:53 PM) I'm not sure I disagree with your ultimate conclusion, Greg, but what are you basing all of this on? How can you confidently gauge Manto's influence on these guys without any inside information? I posit that you cannot. I have no inside information so I only go by basic results/stats. If you are all agreeing with me on my basic premise, that just 3 or 4 guys were revitalized last season (if you count DeAza) I contend there isn't much proof that Manto made a bit of difference. Our team couldn't move runners. It couldn't score runners from third and short with less than two outs the entire second half of the season. But it could hit home runs much of the time. At least during our victories. Sounds a lot like our team under Mr. Walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) I say No. I say Walker and Manto are the same guy, folks. They are capable hitting coaches who provide the tools but it's the player who swings the bat. Says the guy who gives Ozzie all the credit in the world for the WS title. But I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Baines should of been a hitting coach from day 1.............wasted as a 1st base coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) I have no inside information so I only go by basic results/stats. If you are all agreeing with me on my basic premise, that just 3 or 4 guys were revitalized last season (if you count DeAza) I contend there isn't much proof that Manto made a bit of difference. Our team couldn't move runners. It couldn't score runners from third and short with less than two outs the entire second half of the season. But it could hit home runs much of the time. At least during our victories. Sounds a lot like our team under Mr. Walker. Ultimately, if you want a better offense, your line-up needs better hitters. Rudy Jaramillo was a guru when he had Texas Rangers hitters. When he had Cubs hitters, he became a dope. It works with pitchers too. Leo Mazzone was the guru, the gold standard, when he had Maddux and Glavine and Smoltz. He cashes in, goes to Baltimore where they have a staff Soxtalk could pound, he loses his job and suddenly he can't get hired anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) I have no inside information so I only go by basic results/stats. If you are all agreeing with me on my basic premise, that just 3 or 4 guys were revitalized last season (if you count DeAza) I contend there isn't much proof that Manto made a bit of difference. Our team couldn't move runners. It couldn't score runners from third and short with less than two outs the entire second half of the season. But it could hit home runs much of the time. At least during our victories. Sounds a lot like our team under Mr. Walker. How about the fact that the 2012 team scored 94 more runs than the 2011 team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 03:05 PM) Ultimately, if you want a better offense, your line-up needs better hitters. Rudy Jaramillo was a guru when he had Texas Rangers hitters. When he had Cubs hitters, he became a dope. It works with pitchers too. Leo Mazzone was the guru, the gold standard, when he had Maddux and Glavine and Smoltz. He cashes in, goes to Baltimore where they have a staff Soxtalk could pound, he loses his job and suddenly he can't get hired anywhere. Really? I gotta think Leo Mazzone would be able to walk into a pitching coach job tomorrow if he really wanted one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 01:38 PM) The offseason might be time to legitimately discuss the actual value of a hitting coach aside from providing all the tools night and day for players: tapes, access to hitting apparatus, etc. We go from Walker to Manto, yet the team still was station to station and still only won when we hit home runs. Was there an improvement? Was there increased value? I say no. Players: Dunn - he did improve in home run bomb totals but still whiffed a ton and still had horrific batting average. Was Manto the reason he made contact 30 more times and got the ball up in the air? Maybe. Advantage Manto. Beckham - He stunk again. Manto made no difference. Lexi - He did not have a good year. Manto made no difference. Youk - As a veteran surely did not listen much to Manto. He definitely didn't revitalize his hitting under Manto. Manto made no difference. Viciedo - He had the same bad tendencies at the plate, swinging at everything, although amazingly he drew as many walks as Rios. He did not look like he had a clue at the plate, albeit only a rookie. Manto made no difference. DeAza - Decent enough year, but nothing special to make you think Manto created some special player. Manto made no difference. If you argue violently on this one, I'd be willing to give Manto some applause on DeAza. Rios - Is Rios Manto's guy? The guy who makes it seem as Manto is great? Or did Rios figure some things out on his own as a veteran? Advantage Manto. AJ - Had a nice power season. Is Manto the reason? Doubtful being AJ is a headstrung veteran, but we'll give it to Manto. Advantage Manto. Paulie - Was streakier than he's been, had that long long stretch of nothingness cause of injury probably. Definitely no better under Manto than Walker. Manto made no difference. Lilly - Terrible before we let him go. Manto made no difference. Hudson - No reclamation under Manto. Flowers - Did pretty well for a young guy but did he seem like a guy blossoming under a new hitting coach? No. Manto made no difference. So in conclusion did Dunn's increased home run totals and Rios' outstanding season and AJ's excellence mean Manto is some sort of guru? That he is that much better than Walker? Three veterans' improvement?? I say No. I say Walker and Manto are the same guy, folks. They are capable hitting coaches who provide the tools but it's the player who swings the bat. This is not an attack at Manto, but more a defense of Walker and more a commentary on the hitting coach position. It is my belief they don't matter that much. If they did, well, Manto has all offseason to fix Beckham, doesn't he? I don't think you'll find anyone on this site that will tell you that a hitting coach makes a huge difference. That being said a change was needed and the way you come to your conclusions is just so bizarre, "well 3 of our guys were MUCH better this year but I think that proves my point that hitting coaches don't matter." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 09:02 PM) Says the guy who gives Ozzie all the credit in the world for the WS title. But I agree. Ugh. I hope I have not led people to believe that I feel Ozzie is the only reason the Sox won the WS. I give Ozzie and Kenny their huge props, but I think most people would agree I have given a ton of credit to the players on that team. I could go down the whole roster if you like and praise most all of them. In the past I have been loyal on this site to most all of them. I hope the Sox can win another one, but sadly, all momentum from that title has been long gone. But please believe me when I say I do not give Ozzie all the credit for that title team. I thank him as a fan and I thank KW and the players who did the real work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 02:07 PM) Really? I gotta think Leo Mazzone would be able to walk into a pitching coach job tomorrow if he really wanted one. He really wanted one and couldn't get hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 09:05 PM) Ultimately, if you want a better offense, your line-up needs better hitters. Rudy Jaramillo was a guru when he had Texas Rangers hitters. When he had Cubs hitters, he became a dope. It works with pitchers too. Leo Mazzone was the guru, the gold standard, when he had Maddux and Glavine and Smoltz. He cashes in, goes to Baltimore where they have a staff Soxtalk could pound, he loses his job and suddenly he can't get hired anywhere. Well written IMO. This is the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 27, 2012 -> 11:39 AM) Hawk Harrelson was actually preaching teams needed 2 hitting coaches over 25 years ago. I wonder what this means for Gellinger. He was the assistant hitting coach. Will the Sox have 2? Mark Gonzales @MDGonzales RV said Mike Gellinger remains with org., could have duties shifted to role that allows him to be closer to home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Gellinger had a lot of health problems this past year, that has to be the main reason behind changing those roles. Thigpen, not sure about. Just an internal promotion, "Sox Loyalty" thing there apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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