White Sox winter meetings thread...

[Jerksticks]

What kinda s*** is this? Justin Upton is barely 25 and done things none our current outfielders or garbage minor league outfielders have done and can never dream of doing. Like Cali said, you can get Justin Upton without giving up Sale, you do that s***.

Like I said, his stats say he's a nice young player that hasnt made an adjustment in 5 years. That's about it.

 

I'm all in favor of a shakeup or a major trade but I hope it's for a more badass player. We need a #3 impact bat.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Like I said, his stats say he's a nice young player that hasnt made an adjustment in 5 years. That's about it.

 

I'm all in favor of a shakeup or a major trade but I hope it's for a more badass player. We need a #3 impact bat.

 

Well, Miggy, Trout and Posey aren't available. So I have no problem settling for Upton. This is Chicago. The smallest "large" market in the country when it comes to sports. Upton would be an amazing get.

[justBLAZE]

Like I said, his stats say he's a nice young player that hasnt made an adjustment in 5 years. That's about it.

 

I'm all in favor of a shakeup or a major trade but I hope it's for a more badass player. We need a #3 impact bat.

 

Upton

Rios

Dunn

Konerko

 

as 3-4-5-6 in whatever order is great middle of the pack, assuming Rios and Dunn hit like they did last year.

[LittleHurt05]

Like I said, his stats say he's a nice young player that hasnt made an adjustment in 5 years. That's about it.

 

I'm all in favor of a shakeup or a major trade but I hope it's for a more badass player. We need a #3 impact bat.

 

Who exactly is more badass than Upton that is available? (Other than Hamilton) This is a 25 year old with 5 years experience, in a bad year he puts up a .800 OPS, in a good year it's nearly .900. And you would only owe him 3/$39 which is not a bad deal.

[Jerksticks]

Well, Miggy, Trout and Posey aren't available. So I have no problem settling for Upton. This is Chicago. The smallest "large" market in the country when it comes to sports. Upton would be an amazing get.

Fair enough. If this is as good as it gets for the Sox then I'm in. At least it would shake things up and he's young. I just want to win the World Series next year. 3/80 to left-handed Hammynuts sounds better to me.

[hi8is]

Give me Upton and Trevor Bauer and I'll poop my pants.

[Jerksticks]

Who exactly is more badass than Upton that is available? (Other than Hamilton) This is a 25 year old with 5 years experience, in a bad year he puts up a .800 OPS, in a good year it's nearly .900. And you would only owe him 3/$39 which is not a bad deal.

 

I feel ya. We gotta trade everybody to get that 120K, right-handed .850 OPS though. If he played 2b or SS or CF I'd be singing your song without hesitation, but as is, it wouldn't be that easy of a decision if I was Mr. Hahn.

[Lillian]

Upton

Rios

Dunn

Konerko

 

as 3-4-5-6 in whatever order is great middle of the pack, assuming Rios and Dunn hit like they did last year.

 

You are still ignoring that fact that such a lineup is missing the other left handed hitter. Do you really feel comfortable with Dunn as the only one? I don't.

Please suggest a left handed hitter who could hit 3RD, followed by Konerko at clean up, then Dunn 5TH and Rios 6TH. How about someone like Eithier, who is really good vs. RHP, and would not require as many players in the trade? Apparently, the Dodgers are eager to unload that contract. Wouldn't you be happy trading Thornton and Floyd to the Dodgers for Eithier, with some salary relief?

Edited December 8, 2012 by Lillian

[Marty34]

What kinda s*** is this? Justin Upton is barely 25 and done things none our current outfielders or garbage minor league outfielders have done and can never dream of doing. Like Cali said, you can get Justin Upton without giving up Sale, you do that s***.

 

This is exactly right.

[Chicago White Sox]

This is exactly right.

This isn't the NBA though. If we give up 4 or 5 good pieces, we'd most likely struggle to build around Upton.

 

Marty, what to guess the cost would be?

[Princess Dye]

I basically just dislike losing our cheap labor guys. If they're good and they've got several years of cheap labor on the way for us, I hate to lose them. Plain and simple.

 

I'd like to keep guys like that, and spend all the money it takes to get free agents that cost me no player in return. Call me crazy, but these are my hopes.

 

 

 

If we have already told ourselves "WE'RE THE WHITE SOX WE HAVE TO BE CRAFTY TO GET THE REALLY GOOD GUYS" then that's about defeatist enough where I will expect zero titles for my last 40-50 years on the planet

Edited December 8, 2012 by Jose Paniagua

[max power]

I basically just dislike losing our cheap labor guys. If they're good and they've got several years of cheap labor on the way for us, I hate to lose them. Plain and simple.

 

I'd like to keep guys like that, and spend all the money it takes to get free agents that cost me no player in return. Call me crazy, but these are my hopes.

 

 

 

If we have already told ourselves "WE'RE THE WHITE SOX WE HAVE TO BE CRAFTY TO GET THE REALLY GOOD GUYS" then that's about defeatist enough where I will expect zero titles for my last 40-50 years on the planet

You can't get that great of a player without losing a possible cheap player, since it costs you your first round draft pick.

 

Are you suggesting we focus our efforts on aquiring b level (maybe they dont even call them that anymore) free agents?

 

If so, I don't think that would make the sox a championship team.

[RockRaines]

If the Sox could get Upton without giving up Sale, I would lose my s***....

Yeah with what? Magically flipping these guys here and those guys there for something worth his value?

 

I dont buy it.

[TaylorStSox]

Upton's one of those guys that if he was a Sox player, people couldn't wait to move him. But, since he plays for another team and was an uber prospect he's the bee's knees. Upton already plays for this team, his name is Alex Rios. You really think he's suddenly going to get better after 3,000 PA's?

[chw42]

Upton's one of those guys that if he was a Sox player, people couldn't wait to move him. But, since he plays for another team and was an uber prospect he's the bee's knees. Upton already plays for this team, his name is Alex Rios. You really think he's suddenly going to get better after 3,000 PA's?

 

Upton's ceiling is much higher. But yeah, Upton likes to have a pattern of up and down years.

[TaylorStSox]

Upton's ceiling is much higher. But yeah, Upton likes to have a pattern of up and down years.

His ceiling? 3,000 plate appearances. He is who he is. He's slightly better than Rios. He walks more, k's more and steals fewer bases.

[TaylorStSox]

I'd love to have Upton, but I'm not going to getting moist and sell the farm for him.

[chw42]

His ceiling? 3,000 plate appearances. He is who he is. He's slightly better than Rios. He walks more, k's more and steals fewer bases.

 

Upton's wOBA the past 4 years

2009 .385

2010 .349

2011 .385

2012 .341

 

Rios' wOBA the past 4 years

2009 .302

2010 .344

2011 .267

2012 .361

 

There's also a 6 year age difference between the two.

 

Not only does Upton have a higher ceiling, even though it looks like he hasn't completely hit it yet, but he's also not as awful as Rios when he has what is considered a down year. In fact, Upton's bad years are considered good years for Rios.

 

These guys aren't in the same league.

 

And obvious fantasy advice...draft Upton next year, don't draft Rios. The pattern is quite obvious.

Edited December 8, 2012 by chw42

[TaylorStSox]

Upton's wOBA the past 4 years

2009 .385

2010 .349

2011 .385

2012 .341

 

Rios' wOBA the past 4 years

2009 .302

2010 .344

2011 .267

2012 .361

 

There's also a 6 year age difference between the two.

 

Not only does Upton have a higher ceiling, even though it looks like he hasn't completely hit it yet, but he's also not as awful as Rios when he has what is considered a down year. In fact, Upton's bad years are considered good years for Rios.

 

These guys aren't in the same league.

 

And obvious fantasy advice...draft Upton next year, don't draft Rios. The pattern is quite obvious.

I don't know what any of that means. I know they're similar players outside of Rios' awful '11. Upton's slightly better. The idea that the guy still has considerable upside after 3,000 PA's is kind of laughable. Yeah, he was a number 1 pick and a sexy prospect, but he's probably not going to get significantly better. 3,000 PA's is substantial.

[TaylorStSox]

Hey, don't let me stop you guys from creaming your pants over somebody else's uber prospect with an unlimited ceiling.

[chw42]

I don't know what any of that means. I know they're similar players outside of Rios' awful '11. Upton's slightly better. The idea that the guy still has considerable upside after 3,000 PA's is kind of laughable. Yeah, he was a number 1 pick and a sexy prospect, but he's probably not going to get significantly better. 3,000 PA's is substantial.

 

wOBA is like OPS, but a little more extensive and accurate. It's weighted to be like an on base percentage.

 

But you can see there, outside of last year, Rios' was a lot worse and the variation in his good years and bad years was anywhere from 40 points to almost 100 points on the wOBA.

 

So yeah, Upton's much more of a sure thing to produce and there's a chance Rios is completely useless in any given year. You never get that with Upton. And there's also that 6 year age difference.

 

I would never trade Sale for Upton, but anybody else is fair game.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Im pretty sure it meant Sox would trade De Aza to the Reds.

 

Could Homer Bailey be the guy we've wanted for 5 years that Rock or whoever made reference to?

[Jerksticks]

We've spent years amassing the young talent that we have. Why is Justin Upton the guy we sell all the young pieces for? JU is really the missing piece on this team? I bet I could come up with 15-20 outfielders I'd rather have than Upton- he's no superstar. Now we all understand that he's already done a lot at a young age, and that's the path HoF-type players take, but he's shown zero ability to improve over the years. So Viciedo, De Aza plus a bunch of young guys gets us a guy who was out-slugged by Tank and Rios last year. Great. Tank hits lefties like nobody ever has. I'd bet on Tank improving more than Upton improving next year.

 

 

Alex Rios was a better player last year and has the same if not better contract than Upton. AND has seen AL pitchers.

 

PASS, unless you can convince me that JU will become a superstar.

[TaylorStSox]

We've spent years amassing the young talent that we have. Why is Justin Upton the guy we sell all the young pieces for? JU is really the missing piece on this team? I bet I could come up with 15-20 outfielders I'd rather have than Upton- he's no superstar. Now we all understand that he's already done a lot at a young age, and that's the path HoF-type players take, but he's shown zero ability to improve over the years. So Viciedo, De Aza plus a bunch of young guys gets us a guy who was out-slugged by Tank and Rios last year. Great. Tank hits lefties like nobody ever has. I'd bet on Tank improving more than Upton improving next year.

 

 

Alex Rios was a better player last year and has the same if not better contract than Upton. AND has seen AL pitchers.

 

PASS, unless you can convince me that JU will become a superstar.

Everything you say is true, but damnit, Justin Upton is sexy! He was a the number 1 draft pick overall. Some prospect site probably had him rated as the number 1 prospect in baseball 5 years ago. Players always suddenly become superstars after 3,000 PA's.

[YASNY]

I'm lazy and am not going to do this, but I heard something today that leads me to believe somebody might want to check Upton's home/road splits. Pretty damn good at home, not so much on the road. We do play 81 games per year on the road.