White Sox winter meetings thread...

[Lemon_44]

I'm not all hyped up on Upton either. I saw, I think it was Verducci, on MLBN and he said that looking at Upton's stats on the road, they were basically equivalent to Shelley Duncan. Obviously, Upton's a better player but I'm not selling the farm for him.

 

If the Dbacks can get a blockbuster deal for him, they shold take it. Plus, I'm not giving up on Viciedo so early. What is he 23 and had 25 HR his first year as full time player. I like his ceiling, offensively, almost as much as Upton's. Viciedo should only get better from here on out too.

Upton's first full year: .250 15 HR 42RBI .816 OPS

Viciedo: .255 25 HR 78 RBI .744 OPS

 

There slugging %'s were about the same, so basically Upton walked more. Upton definitley brings more to the table, all around, but I'd just as soon stick with Dayan and add to the team.

[Dick Allen]

I'm lazy and am not going to do this, but I heard something today that leads me to believe somebody might want to check Upton's home/road splits. Pretty damn good at home, not so much on the road. We do play 81 games per year on the road.

It's probably the reason he is available.

[LittleHurt05]

I'm lazy and am not going to do this, but I heard something today that leads me to believe somebody might want to check Upton's home/road splits. Pretty damn good at home, not so much on the road. We do play 81 games per year on the road.

 

Wow, good call. .937 OPS in Arizona, .731 OPS on the road. And that's over 4.5 seasons so it's more than just a small sample size.

[oldsox]

Upton played very well against the Rockies the last 2-3 years, for whatever that's worth.

[Marty34]

We've spent years amassing the young talent that we have. Why is Justin Upton the guy we sell all the young pieces for? JU is really the missing piece on this team? I bet I could come up with 15-20 outfielders I'd rather have than Upton- he's no superstar. Now we all understand that he's already done a lot at a young age, and that's the path HoF-type players take, but he's shown zero ability to improve over the years. So Viciedo, De Aza plus a bunch of young guys gets us a guy who was out-slugged by Tank and Rios last year. Great. Tank hits lefties like nobody ever has. I'd bet on Tank improving more than Upton improving next year.

 

First, Viciedo is no Justin Upton. I applaud Hahn's effort to get creative in his pursuit of Upton, but it would have to be considered something of a longshot if he could turn Viciedo and De Aza into a group of more attractive prospects. We'll see.

 

As for Upton, I think he's the best player on the market and well worth emptying anything we have on the farm (aside from Hawkins) to get. Think about it, when Hawkins is scheduled to be in the big leagues Upton will just be hitting his prime years. 35-40 HR's a year in his prime at the Cell.

[elrockinMT]

First, Viciedo is no Justin Upton. I applaud Hahn's effort to get creative in his pursuit of Upton, but it would have to be considered something of a longshot if he could turn Viciedo and De Aza into a group of more attractive prospects. We'll see.

 

As for Upton, I think he's the best player on the market and well worth emptying anything we have on the farm (aside from Hawkins) to get. Think about it, when Hawkins is scheduled to be in the big leagues Upton will just be hitting his prime years. 35-40 HR's a year in his prime at the Cell.

 

 

Your take on Upton is a bold call. I personally think that Viciedo showed some real improvement last year and may be on the verge of being a star. De Aza did fine also but I would be less upset about him being traded. However, no one is untouchable I guess and it all depends on the return

[Dick Allen]

First, Viciedo is no Justin Upton. I applaud Hahn's effort to get creative in his pursuit of Upton, but it would have to be considered something of a longshot if he could turn Viciedo and De Aza into a group of more attractive prospects. We'll see.

 

As for Upton, I think he's the best player on the market and well worth emptying anything we have on the farm (aside from Hawkins) to get. Think about it, when Hawkins is scheduled to be in the big leagues Upton will just be hitting his prime years. 35-40 HR's a year in his prime at the Cell.

How do you know he is pursuing Upton?

[Eminor3rd]

I don't know what any of that means. I know they're similar players outside of Rios' awful '11. Upton's slightly better. The idea that the guy still has considerable upside after 3,000 PA's is kind of laughable. Yeah, he was a number 1 pick and a sexy prospect, but he's probably not going to get significantly better. 3,000 PA's is substantial.

 

Upton is substantially better than Rios, and he's like 25, and his down year last year, which was about as good as an above average year for Rios, happened when he was playing through injuries.

 

I'm not sure why you think Rios is as good as Upton -- look at their stats. But, the question, for me, isn't whether or not Upton is better, but whether or not Upton is enough better to justify paying big for him. The marginal upgrade looks like it may not be worth it.

 

Although, the only way I can imagine getting him would be moving Viciedo/De Aza for prospects or in a multi-team deal, so it may not be a question of upgrading Rios but upgrading one of the others.

[Marty34]

How do you know he is pursuing Upton?

 

Info from someone connected to organization.

[Marty34]

Upton is substantially better than Rios, and he's like 25, and his down year last year, which was about as good as an above average year for Rios, happened when he was playing through injuries.

 

I'm not sure why you think Rios is as good as Upton -- look at their stats. But, the question, for me, isn't whether or not Upton is better, but whether or not Upton is enough better to justify paying big for him. The marginal upgrade looks like it may not be worth it.

 

Although, the only way I can imagine getting him would be moving Viciedo/De Aza for prospects or in a multi-team deal, so it may not be a question of upgrading Rios but upgrading one of the others.

 

The most important thing about Upton is his age. At 25, he gives the Sox time to build an offense around him. All eggs would not be in the 2013 basket.

[Dick Allen]

Info from someone connected to organization.

Is this the same guy who told you Hahn wants to bring Ozzie back?

[Marty34]

The other thing I was told is even if they can't get Upton, they wouldn't hesitate to deal Viciedo and De Aza and keep the package of players they got in return.

[Marty34]

Is this the same guy who told you Hahn wants to bring Ozzie back?

 

did you see the really nice things Hahn said about Guillen after he was fired? I was tempted to post it.

[Dick Allen]

did you see the really nice things Hahn said about Guillen after he was fired? I was tempted to post it.

KW said some really nice things as well. It's easy when he's not your problem anymore.

[Marty34]

KW said some really nice things as well. It's easy when he's not your problem anymore.

 

Hahn, who was promoted this week from assistant GM, was not ready to say a change in clubhouse atmosphere after Guillen left was the reason for success. It can't be denied, however, that the players didn't have to deal with daily questions regarding the feud between Guillen and former GM Ken Williams, who was promoted to executive vice president this week.

 

"In some ways it's too easy to say well you changed X, so therefore Y and Z happened automatically," Hahn said. "I think it was a lot of factors, ranging from health to preparation to a different voice in the dugout.

 

"I do know that over the [eight] years Ozzie was with us, we had some tremendous performances from guys that he played a vital role in unleashing, and developing them and having them fulfill their potential at the big league level. And that banner is going to wave above U.S Cellular Field forever, in large part because of him."

 

Hahn said he recently exchanged texts with Guillen.

 

"We texted back and forth after what happened down in Florida, and he sent me some real nice messages after our announcement was made last week," Hahn said.

 

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/...ired-one-season

 

There was no problems between Hahn and Guillen.

[Dick Allen]

There was no problems between Hahn and Guillen.

Except Oney didn't think too much of Hahn because he didn't play professionally. Hahn can say and play nice with Ozzie all he wants, but he is far too smart to bring him back to the dugout.

[Marty34]

Except Oney didn't think too much of Hahn because he didn't play professionally. Hahn can say and play nice with Ozzie all he wants, but he is far too smart to bring him back to the dugout.

 

I'll trust my source on the Hahn/Guillen relationship over your speculation.

[Dick Allen]

I'll trust my source on the Hahn/Guillen relationship over your speculation.

That doesn't hurt me. Just don't be too surprised if neither Upton or Guillen are ever collecting White Sox paychecks.

[RockRaines]

You guys are ruining the fact I have Marty on ignore.

 

Ozzie rubbed all of mgmt wrong, he's not coming back.

 

I haven't heard anything about Upton but I've heard a lot of chatter about our OF'ers. Personally I don't think we have anything close to what it takes to get him and we aren't going to rape another team with our guys for better guys to flip for a guy like that. That's Xbox stuff.

[Marty34]

That doesn't hurt me. Just don't be too surprised if neither Upton or Guillen are ever collecting White Sox paychecks.

 

Is that what your source says?

[TaylorStSox]

Has Marty's "source" ever been right about anything? I honestly don't know.

[Marty34]

You guys are ruining the fact I have Marty on ignore.

 

Ozzie rubbed all of mgmt wrong, he's not coming back.

 

I haven't heard anything about Upton but I've heard a lot of chatter about our OF'ers. Personally I don't think we have anything close to what it takes to get him and we aren't going to rape another team with our guys for better guys to flip for a guy like that. That's Xbox stuff.

 

Please Rock take me off ignore.

[Marty34]

Has Marty's "source" ever been right about anything? I honestly don't know.

 

Has Rock's source every been right? What about yours?

[TaylorStSox]

Has Rock's source every been right? What about yours?

 

I have a source? Sweet.

[Dick Allen]

Is that what your source says?

Everyone knows Upton is available, so just by MO, the White Sox have inquired. But minor leaguers like what they would get from Viciedo are not what Arizona covets.

 

That's what my source, mlbtraderumors.com, Jon Heyman, Ken Rosenthal, Jon Moresi, Peter Gammons say. The D-Backs want a major league SS, not prospects. They have been working on trades for Cabrera and Andrus but can't get those done. If your source was legit, he would know the DBacks would either have to be interested in Ramirez or De Aza/Viciedo/Floyd would have to be dangled to a team for a SS of Arizona's liking, as part of the package.

 

For a guy who wants nothing more than to re-build, stating that you would gut the Sox entire minor leagues except for one player for Justin Upton is beyond curious. And even if Upton was acquired, if he was anywhere near the player he could be, the chances of him and Hawkins playing together for more than one season, if that, are remote. He's signed for 3 more seasons. Hawkins is in the minors at least the next 2.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Dick Allen