The Ultimate Champion Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:54 PM) And let's be honest, one of KW's weaknesses was his impatience. He often took the first deal he liked instead of waiting for a market to develop for his players. We saw this most recently with the Sergio Santos trade where some teams didn't even know he was available. And if he had held onto Sergio because the deal wasn't there, then what? He'd have an injured player he couldn't trade. Also Kenny's lack on info on Molina makes me very seriously think that this was a Hahn move & Molina was a Hahn target. Kenny IIRC didn't even know what Molina was doing over that offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if last offseason KW kind of let Rick make some decisions on his own to prep him for the promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:50 PM) I am hoping this was a green fail. Nope, meant to be black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) You often turn it to be about the messenger as if you're above the fray. Anyway, the Sox don't have the talent level to contend and rebuild at the same time. Missing the playoffs again because of Viciedo not being able to produce against right-handers isn't worth the time spent to develop him. You can't take a guy that young and platoon him. It has a better than average chance of ruining his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) Right. And people wait in lines at McDonalds for french fries they have to pay for, then eat said french fries, make noises (via their bums), get fat, and then also poop in toilets at home which they also have to pay for. Seagulls have bopped their heads on the question-marked block, collected the mushroom, and have 1-UP'ed their human competitors. Ricky "The Mild THing" Hahn has 1-UP'ed whom? Exactly. At least cars are afraid of seagulls, cars which by the way are cared for & pampered by people. What does that tell you? I need a beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) And if he had held onto Sergio because the deal wasn't there, then what? He'd have an injured player he couldn't trade. Also Kenny's lack on info on Molina makes me very seriously think that this was a Hahn move & Molina was a Hahn target. Kenny IIRC didn't even know what Molina was doing over that offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if last offseason KW kind of let Rick make some decisions on his own to prep him for the promotion. Molina came recommended by Marco Paddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:48 PM) The few chips? What are you talking about? We have three SPs, three OFs, two veteran RPs, and plenty of prospects that have value and can be used to improve the team. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much demand for these chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:50 PM) I am hoping this was a green fail. He's exactly right. We have a 1-year closer, a 1-year setup man, a vet lefty setup guy & a vet righty setup guy who have been among the better setup men out there during their careers, plus an excess of LHSP (I doubt anyone is looking for that...) plus 2 OFers one of which has serious potential and the other who is a lead-off hitter. Right, little to no value there. Oh yeah, also a vet SP in Floyd. We have lots of chips & have made no moves. I want to know what Hahn is trying to do here. He brought back Peavy but Peavy basically brought back himself. In the wake of the Annabelle Sanchez deal & knowing what EJax is going to get, Peavy left a gigantic amount of money on the table & only Peavy deserves the credit for that. But hey, maybe Blake Tecotte or whatever is going to be a serviceable 5th OF. That'll help. NOT!QQ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) And if he had held onto Sergio because the deal wasn't there, then what? He'd have an injured player he couldn't trade. Also Kenny's lack on info on Molina makes me very seriously think that this was a Hahn move & Molina was a Hahn target. Kenny IIRC didn't even know what Molina was doing over that offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if last offseason KW kind of let Rick make some decisions on his own to prep him for the promotion. The Andrew Bailey trade happened shortly after the Santos deal was completed and it netted the A's Reddick and their current #6 prospect. That's incredibly more value than KW got for Santos, especially considering he had signed a cheap long-term extension with three team options earlier that off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:05 PM) I need a beer. Me too.. I just drank the last 1 I had. It's rainy & muddy outside & I've only had 7 so far, & what sucks about 7 beers is it puts you right ar the point where you won't go driving... yeah, I'll run. I haven't run in a little while, I think I'll run to the liquor store & pick up another 30pack & walk back. That's a good idea. See yall, & if you were here I'd give you a beer but since you're not I'll just drink an extra one for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) The Andrew Bailey trade happened shortly after the Santos deal was completed and it netted the A's Reddick and their current #6 prospect. That's incredibly more value than KW got for Santos, especially considering he had signed a cheap long-term extension with three team options earlier that off-season. I wish he had made that deal instead too. But it is worth noting that Santos was out of options & that would havebrought his value down a lot, since you'd have to pass him through waivers to send him down in the event of a struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much demand for these chips. The off-season has barely begun. We've seen a lot more moves made in late December & January over the past few off-seasons. Plus free agency has been extremely slow this year. Since most teams would rather spend money than talent to fill their holes, we need guys like Nick Swisher & Edwin Jackson (I know he just did) to sign so a market can develop for our players. I'll start getting worried in late January if Hahn hasn't made any other big moves. Edited December 20, 2012 by Chicago White Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:21 PM) The off-season has barely begun. We've seen a lot more moves made in late December & January over the past few off-seasons. Plus free agency has been extremely slow this year. Since most teams would rather spend money than talent to fill their holes, we need guys like Nick Swisher & Edwin Jackson (I know he just did) to sign so a market can develop for our players. I'll start getting worried in late January if Hahn hasn't made any other big moves. I don't think we can expect a very good return on whatever pieces are on the block if teams prefer filling their needs with free-agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Unless a trade happens today, I doubt anything is gonna happen until after the new year, so it'll be a few more weeks of no news for our Sox.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) I don't think we can expect a very good return on whatever pieces are on the block if teams prefer filling their needs with free-agents. I don't follow. Most teams would rather overpay in terms of money than talent to fill their needs. As the quantity of quality free agents starts to shrink, teams are forced to explore the trade market for alternatives. That's when guys like Gavin & Thornton become attractive and we're just starting to get to that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Cali @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) Unless a trade happens today, I doubt anything is gonna happen until after the new year, so it'll be a few more weeks of no news for our Sox.... I feel like B-Mac got dealt on X-mas, but that could have been Thanksgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) I feel like B-Mac got dealt on X-mas, but that could have been Thanksgiving. December 23rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) I don't follow. Most teams would rather overpay in terms of money than talent to fill their needs. As the quantity of quality free agents starts to shrink, teams are forced to explore the trade market for alternatives. That's when guys like Gavin & Thornton become attractive and we're just starting to get to that point. Porcello will get more back in a trade than Floyd and I certainly don't see a market for Thornton. De Aza probbly is their best chip, but I'm not sure how much you get back for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 04:04 PM) Porcello will get more back in a trade than Floyd and I certainly don't see a market for Thornton. De Aza probbly is their best chip, but I'm not sure how much you get back for him. There's no way there's no market for Thornton. He's a reliever with 1 year left on his deal (plus an option) so the value isn't incredible, but I just can't and won't believe there's no value or market there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 05:24 PM) There's no way there's no market for Thornton. He's a reliever with 1 year left on his deal (plus an option) so the value isn't incredible, but I just can't and won't believe there's no value or market there. The problem with all of these guys isn't that there's no value or market for them...it's that the Sox would want a return good enough to make the team worse next year by subtracting the guy. Unless they're desperate to shed salary (and based on the Peavy contract they're not), they can wait and see if someone offers them something worth while. If not, they can be content to go into the season with this team. They're not going to just give these guys up for spare parts. Hahn has every reason to wait and let people meet his price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 04:24 PM) There's no way there's no market for Thornton. He's a reliever with 1 year left on his deal (plus an option) so the value isn't incredible, but I just can't and won't believe there's no value or market there. LOL, yeah that was ridiculous, there is a very good market for a left handed power pitcher out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) LOL, yeah that was ridiculous, there is a very good market for a left handed power pitcher out of the pen. If there were any kind of market for him I think he'd be gone by now given the Sox have some depth there and he'd provide salary relief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Think you could get more for Veal than Thornton in a trade right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 04:57 PM) Think you could get more for Veal than Thornton in a trade right now? No. A year ago Veal was minor league fodder. Anybody that trades for him based on 2 months is way overplaying their hand, no matter how good he did in fact look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The other thing to consider is that, whether or not you believe in it, a lot of people on the Sox coaching staff have commented on their worries that the bullpen is too young. I don't think they'll trade him for a live arm and $5m in salary relief -- I think they feel like they need the "veteran presence." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) The other thing to consider is that, whether or not you believe in it, a lot of people on the Sox coaching staff have commented on their worries that the bullpen is too young. I don't think they'll trade him for a live arm and $5m in salary relief -- I think they feel like they need the "veteran presence." I think the way they used Thornton last year (going through everyone other than him to close) suggests to me that they are not enamored with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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