White Sox winter meetings thread...

[GGajewski18]

I believe if the Rangers miss out on Lohse and/or Sanchez, the Sox could be good trading partners.

 

Floyd for Olt and others?

[chw42]

I believe if the Rangers miss out on Lohse and/or Sanchez, the Sox could be good trading partners.

 

Floyd for Olt and others?

 

Not in a million years. Floyd's value should be higher after those guys are off the market, but we're not getting Mike Olt for him.

Edited December 10, 2012 by chw42

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I believe if the Rangers miss out on Lohse and/or Sanchez, the Sox could be good trading partners.

 

Floyd for Olt and others?

 

I'd jizz in my panties if we could get Olt, but I'm getting my hopes up.

[chw42]

Unless Moose and Hosmer both go on to have breakout years, I don't see a rotation of Shields, Guthrie, Santana, Mendoza, and Chen/Hochevar doing any real damage.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

In related news, this was the best 22nd birthday gift Myers could have gotten.

[Lemon_44]

I like the trade for the Royals. Those prospects may turn out to be nothing at the MLB level. Wasn't Davis a hot shot prospect, like top 20, a couple years ago? Shileds and Davis have already shown they can play in the majors.

[spiderman]

I like the trade for the Royals. Those prospects may turn out to be nothing at the MLB level. Wasn't Davis a hot shot prospect, like top 20, a couple years ago? Shileds and Davis have already shown they can play in the majors.

 

It does make the Royals more formidable for next season. Their starting rotation had lagged behind their lineup the last few years. Now, it should be better although it's hard call that rotation special or really much better than average.

 

[daggins]

Lipstick on a pig, if the lipstick is made of gold flake and diamond dust.

 

Sullivan wrote a good piece on Lookout Landing about how unforgivably dumb and desperate this is.

 

The only potential upshot to this for Royals fans is that it is very likely Moore will be gone after this season.

 

Of course then they have to worry that Glass will hire another backwards-thinking GM and "The Process" will start all over again.

[The Ultimate Champion]

This move is great for Royals fans, finally that organization got the message.

 

The Rays will be lucky to get 2 good everyday players out of the 4 unproven prospects they received, while KC gets 2 good proven players now who will help them change the culture over there. Shields could be an extension candidate, but if not, this deal sends a message to him and other pitchers on the FA market next year that KC is a place you go if you want to win. Davis should be good for a while.

 

This deal could also help them extend some of their own players. Dayton Moore has finally done something, so now it's up to Glass to keep his end of the bargain. If he wants to pay, there's no reason to believe that that team can't support a $100M payroll after all the renovations and so forth.

 

Anyone b****ing about the prospects is missing the entire point. Remember how the KW supposedly killed the Sox trading Olivo, Reed, and Morse for Garcia? Yeah, what? That won him a WS the following season, and we didn't miss any of those guys. Winning at the MLB level is all that matters, I mean hell, even the Red Sox traded away Hanley Ramirez & Annibal Sanchez while taking on Mike Lowell and do you think they'd go back in time and not make a deal that put another ring on their hands? Hell no. Look at some of the "crazy" trade proposals that have been made on this very board over recent years, like Paulie/Crede for Brandon Wood as one example, and so many of them, in hindsight, would have ended up being major mistakes. The game is littered with can't miss types who miss; credit the Royals for getting 2 good pitchers from the one team in baseball that produces impact arms better than anyone else. No matter what the prospects TB received in return do, if this deal is the big move that pulls KC out of the perennial s***hole and puts them at or near the top of the AL Central for the next 5-6 years then it is a massive win for them.

 

Kudos to KC. I didn't think they'd ever act like a winning organization and trade their damn prospects, but now they have. Moore made a ballsy move and that's what he needed to do. They'll sucked balls last year and, unlike the Rays, they still have a very high draft pick and will replace the value of 1 of those guys in June. And they can always add to a strong farm system while continuing to add talent as long as ownership is going to sack up and act like winning matters.

 

I'll believe the Royals are real when I see them spend some real money (especially on the open market) but at least for now they're good enough to win as soon as 2013, and anyone who doesn't think so is in for a surprise. They've added 3 Major League starting pitchers and brought back Guthrie who they may have turned around. Santana has worlds of ability, Hochevar has talent also, Guthrie has looked good, Shields *is* good, and Davis is going to be a long-term anchor of their staff. You don't need a true #1 to win but you do need legitimate Major League arms with talent, and you need that in depth, and KC has that. They should still look to add another piece at the front of their rotation, but adding their bullpen, defense (espeically IF defense), and their offense to it gives them enough to win. They can still make some nice complementary moves too to get even better. It's still only the second week in December and you have to believe that FA bargains left out there in January are going to see KC as an attractive destination on a 1 year deal.

 

The best thing this move does for KC is it shows Butler and the rest of their core that they're ready to win. That team is going to have a lot of confidence in Spring Training and they'll start the season out thinking they're going to be in it until the end. If they start out hot in April and keep it up into May, it will be very tough to cool down a young team that believes in itself and has that momentum behind it, because that team is going to play hard. KC is already at least as good as we are on paper if not better, CLE and Minny are non-factors, and Detroit still has a lot of work to do.

[southsider2k5]

This move is great for Royals fans, finally that organization got the message.

 

The Rays will be lucky to get 2 good everyday players out of the 4 unproven prospects they received, while KC gets 2 good proven players now who will help them change the culture over there. Shields could be an extension candidate, but if not, this deal sends a message to him and other pitchers on the FA market next year that KC is a place you go if you want to win. Davis should be good for a while.

 

This deal could also help them extend some of their own players. Dayton Moore has finally done something, so now it's up to Glass to keep his end of the bargain. If he wants to pay, there's no reason to believe that that team can't support a $100M payroll after all the renovations and so forth.

 

Anyone b****ing about the prospects is missing the entire point. Remember how the KW supposedly killed the Sox trading Olivo, Reed, and Morse for Garcia? Yeah, what? That won him a WS the following season, and we didn't miss any of those guys. Winning at the MLB level is all that matters, I mean hell, even the Red Sox traded away Hanley Ramirez & Annibal Sanchez while taking on Mike Lowell and do you think they'd go back in time and not make a deal that put another ring on their hands? Hell no. Look at some of the "crazy" trade proposals that have been made on this very board over recent years, like Paulie/Crede for Brandon Wood as one example, and so many of them, in hindsight, would have ended up being major mistakes. The game is littered with can't miss types who miss; credit the Royals for getting 2 good pitchers from the one team in baseball that produces impact arms better than anyone else. No matter what the prospects TB received in return do, if this deal is the big move that pulls KC out of the perennial s***hole and puts them at or near the top of the AL Central for the next 5-6 years then it is a massive win for them.

 

Kudos to KC. I didn't think they'd ever act like a winning organization and trade their damn prospects, but now they have. Moore made a ballsy move and that's what he needed to do. They'll sucked balls last year and, unlike the Rays, they still have a very high draft pick and will replace the value of 1 of those guys in June. And they can always add to a strong farm system while continuing to add talent as long as ownership is going to sack up and act like winning matters.

 

I'll believe the Royals are real when I see them spend some real money (especially on the open market) but at least for now they're good enough to win as soon as 2013, and anyone who doesn't think so is in for a surprise. They've added 3 Major League starting pitchers and brought back Guthrie who they may have turned around. Santana has worlds of ability, Hochevar has talent also, Guthrie has looked good, Shields *is* good, and Davis is going to be a long-term anchor of their staff. You don't need a true #1 to win but you do need legitimate Major League arms with talent, and you need that in depth, and KC has that. They should still look to add another piece at the front of their rotation, but adding their bullpen, defense (espeically IF defense), and their offense to it gives them enough to win. They can still make some nice complementary moves too to get even better. It's still only the second week in December and you have to believe that FA bargains left out there in January are going to see KC as an attractive destination on a 1 year deal.

 

The best thing this move does for KC is it shows Butler and the rest of their core that they're ready to win. That team is going to have a lot of confidence in Spring Training and they'll start the season out thinking they're going to be in it until the end. If they start out hot in April and keep it up into May, it will be very tough to cool down a young team that believes in itself and has that momentum behind it, because that team is going to play hard. KC is already at least as good as we are on paper if not better, CLE and Minny are non-factors, and Detroit still has a lot of work to do.

 

This was where I quit reading.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Unless Moose and Hosmer both go on to have breakout years, I don't see a rotation of Shields, Guthrie, Santana, Mendoza, and Chen/Hochevar doing any real damage.

Huh? What does the offensive output of Hosmer and Moustakas have to do starting pitching over there? Davis is obviously a starter, he's only in TB's pen due to their very uncharacteristic SP depth. Hosmer and Moose will help that staff out with their gloves & the bullpen will hold the leads they get.

 

Santana also is a very interesting change of scenery candidate. He's very Floydish mentally but KC is much lower pressure and the stuff is definitely there. Plus he has a contract to play for.

 

That team is going to be tough to beat, and still, it's December 10th. KC still has a bunch of tradeable prospects and some salary they could shed in Frenchy & Chen, plus Hochevar's salary could be gone.

[southsider2k5]

Not in a million years. Floyd's value should be higher after those guys are off the market, but we're not getting Mike Olt for him.

 

Yeah, it would be Floyd and many others. You just saw a #1 pitcher get dealt for a top 10 national prospect, plus some other pieces on both sides.

[The Ultimate Champion]

This was where I quit reading.

Denial sucks man.

 

Those guys are good.

 

Take the blinders off. IF --- and it's a big IF -- this move means the Royals are in "win now" mode then yes, KC is very much a place to win. They have a better park than us & they outdraw us. They have better talent too. If their FO is going to start acting like winners instead of perennial losers then they are very much for real.

[witesoxfan]

Huh? What does the offensive output of Hosmer and Moustakas have to do starting pitching over there? Davis is obviously a starter, he's only in TB's pen due to their very uncharacteristic SP depth. Hosmer and Moose will help that staff out with their gloves & the bullpen will hold the leads they get.

 

Santana also is a very interesting change of scenery candidate. He's very Floydish mentally but KC is much lower pressure and the stuff is definitely there. Plus he has a contract to play for.

 

That team is going to be tough to beat, and still, it's December 10th. KC still has a bunch of tradeable prospects and some salary they could shed in Frenchy & Chen, plus Hochevar's salary could be gone.

 

It's not a very deep rotation, so unless those guys are better offensively, this could still be a very weak team. I think they'll be better, I just think there's a lot they need help with still.

 

Oh, and regards to the Garcia trade...that was a solid looking catching prospect, a really good hitting prospect, and a flyer in Morse. Morse turned out to be the best of all, and those other two have been very, very mediocre to bad throughout the duration of their career, but none of them stack up talent wise compared to the number of prospects KC gave up. Tampa Bay got a very, very good haul for a guy they weren't going to re-sign and a guy in Davis who simply has not been a good starter at the MLB level.

[witesoxfan]

Denial sucks man.

 

Those guys are good.

 

Take the blinders off. IF --- and it's a big IF -- this move means the Royals are in "win now" mode then yes, KC is very much a place to win. They have a better park than us & they outdraw us. They have better talent too. If their FO is going to start acting like winners instead of perennial losers then they are very much for real.

 

They hosted the All-Star game last year and drew 1.79 million fans. The White Sox drew 1.96 million, and this was considered a down year, even sparking a 400+ post thread on how to increase attendance.

 

They do not outdraw the White Sox. It's not even close.

[Dick Allen]

Denial sucks man.

 

Those guys are good.

 

Take the blinders off. IF --- and it's a big IF -- this move means the Royals are in "win now" mode then yes, KC is very much a place to win. They have a better park than us & they outdraw us. They have better talent too. If their FO is going to start acting like winners instead of perennial losers then they are very much for real.

Denial is the ignoring of the 20+ years it has been since KC has been to the playoffs. If KC is the place to go to win, so is just about every other team in baseball.

[Dick Allen]

They hosted the All-Star game last year and drew 1.79 million fans. The White Sox drew 1.96 million, and this was considered a down year, even sparking a 400+ post thread on how to increase attendance.

 

They do not outdraw the White Sox. It's not even close.

And their TV and radio contract isn't as lucrative, they don't collect as much ticket revenue. Their spending will always be lower than the White Sox as long as the Sox are in win mode.

[The Ultimate Champion]

It's not a very deep rotation, so unless those guys are better offensively, this could still be a very weak team. I think they'll be better, I just think there's a lot they need help with still.

 

Oh, and regards to the Garcia trade...that was a solid looking catching prospect, a really good hitting prospect, and a flyer in Morse. Morse turned out to be the best of all, and those other two have been very, very mediocre to bad throughout the duration of their career, but none of them stack up talent wise compared to the number of prospects KC gave up. Tampa Bay got a very, very good haul for a guy they weren't going to re-sign and a guy in Davis who simply has not been a good starter at the MLB level.

You're either selling Olivo short or you weren't paying that much attention at the time. Olivo wasn't just "solid looking," he was an excellent combination of speed + power + defense from a young athletic catcher. He wasn't tearing it up at the MLB level, but he was ready to be there and learning. He had tons of value.

 

Reed was a truly elite prospect at the time. Morse was a scouting type, but obviously one a lot of teams would have wanted to get.

 

For a half season of Freddy Garcia that deal was considered a massive mistake by KW, yet it won him a WS. Freddy was extended and the package was a pittance compared to what happened because of the trade. This deal, given a year and maybe more of Shields plus Davis, is very comparable.

 

As for this deal, again, the PROSPECTS DO NOT MATTER.

 

Let me say it again

 

THE PROSPECTS DONT MATTER

 

The Kansas City Royals haven't had a 90+ win season since 1989.

 

Yeah.

 

1989.

 

They've had 3 "winning" seasons since then and won 83, 82, and 84 games.

 

They've been absolute dogs*** for 23 years. Dogs***.

 

They've blown it, time and time and again, whenever they've had a core to build around. They've finally something real that actually matters. People want to keep the prospects? Really? Guess what line of thinking got them into this mess?

 

Kudos to KC. As a Sox fan I don't like it because it makes them a legitimate threat now and in the future, but as a baseball fan who also appreciates the sport, this is wonderful for KC and their fans. But again, Glass has to do his part. They're not there yet, but at least they're trying to get there.

[The Ultimate Champion]

They hosted the All-Star game last year and drew 1.79 million fans. The White Sox drew 1.96 million, and this was considered a down year, even sparking a 400+ post thread on how to increase attendance.

 

They do not outdraw the White Sox. It's not even close.

Oh ok then. They're stadium always looks like it has more. They will though as soon as next year.

[southsider2k5]

Denial sucks man.

 

Those guys are good.

 

Take the blinders off. IF --- and it's a big IF -- this move means the Royals are in "win now" mode then yes, KC is very much a place to win. They have a better park than us & they outdraw us. They have better talent too. If their FO is going to start acting like winners instead of perennial losers then they are very much for real.

 

Speaking of blinders, Kansas City has had one winning season in this century, and that was with 83 wins. Like the state they are from, you've gotta show me. They are perpetual losers until they prove otherwise on the baseball field. Baseball America rankings don't mean a damned thing.

 

 

[flavum]

Speaking of blinders, Kansas City has had one winning season in this century, and that was with 83 wins. Like the state they are from, you've gotta show me. They are perpetual losers until they prove otherwise on the baseball field. Baseball America rankings don't mean a damned thing.

 

I agree with that. The Royals and the Pirates are in the same boat...until they actually win something, they're awful and it's dumb to pick them to win.

[Dick Allen]

You're either selling Olivo short or you weren't paying that much attention at the time. Olivo wasn't just "solid looking," he was an excellent combination of speed + power + defense from a young athletic catcher. He wasn't tearing it up at the MLB level, but he was ready to be there and learning. He had tons of value.

 

Reed was a truly elite prospect at the time. Morse was a scouting type, but obviously one a lot of teams would have wanted to get.

 

For a half season of Freddy Garcia that deal was considered a massive mistake by KW, yet it won him a WS. Freddy was extended and the package was a pittance compared to what happened because of the trade. This deal, given a year and maybe more of Shields plus Davis, is very comparable.

 

As for this deal, again, the PROSPECTS DO NOT MATTER.

 

Let me say it again

 

THE PROSPECTS DONT MATTER

 

The Kansas City Royals haven't had a 90+ win season since 1989.

 

Yeah.

 

1989.

 

They've had 3 "winning" seasons since then and won 83, 82, and 84 games.

 

They've been absolute dogs*** for 23 years. Dogs***.

 

They've blown it, time and time and again, whenever they've had a core to build around. They've finally something real that actually matters. People want to keep the prospects? Really? Guess what line of thinking got them into this mess?

 

Kudos to KC. As a Sox fan I don't like it because it makes them a legitimate threat now and in the future, but as a baseball fan who also appreciates the sport, this is wonderful for KC and their fans. But again, Glass has to do his part. They're not there yet, but at least they're trying to get there.

Prospects do matter, but there's a decent chance the prospects the Royals gave up don't turn into perrenial all stars. They have played the wait for the prospects game for a long time and it wasn't working out so I don't blame them for this move. I just don't see where you see how this is going to propel them to annual contenders. There is a lot of talent on the roster, but those guys haven't done it before, so in essence guys like Moustakis and Hosmer are nothing more than prospects, so you kind of contradict yourself thinking of them as contenders.

[Rowand44]

You're either selling Olivo short or you weren't paying that much attention at the time. Olivo wasn't just "solid looking," he was an excellent combination of speed + power + defense from a young athletic catcher. He wasn't tearing it up at the MLB level, but he was ready to be there and learning. He had tons of value.

 

Reed was a truly elite prospect at the time. Morse was a scouting type, but obviously one a lot of teams would have wanted to get.

 

For a half season of Freddy Garcia that deal was considered a massive mistake by KW, yet it won him a WS. Freddy was extended and the package was a pittance compared to what happened because of the trade. This deal, given a year and maybe more of Shields plus Davis, is very comparable.

 

As for this deal, again, the PROSPECTS DO NOT MATTER.

 

Let me say it again

 

THE PROSPECTS DONT MATTER

 

The Kansas City Royals haven't had a 90+ win season since 1989.

 

Yeah.

 

1989.

 

They've had 3 "winning" seasons since then and won 83, 82, and 84 games.

 

They've been absolute dogs*** for 23 years. Dogs***.

 

They've blown it, time and time and again, whenever they've had a core to build around. They've finally something real that actually matters. People want to keep the prospects? Really? Guess what line of thinking got them into this mess?

 

Kudos to KC. As a Sox fan I don't like it because it makes them a legitimate threat now and in the future, but as a baseball fan who also appreciates the sport, this is wonderful for KC and their fans. But again, Glass has to do his part. They're not there yet, but at least they're trying to get there.

First off, everyone knew the Ozzie connection was going to make Freddy much simpler to extend. And yes we were all upset about losing Olivo and Reed but neither were in the same ballpark as what the Rays got. Olivo never put up huge numbers and while Jeremy was lighting the minors on fire he was still being compared to Mark Kotsay.

 

And your line if thinking is just ridiculous, so as long as the Royals prove that they're trying to win this is a good deal despite the fact they're not going to be a playoff contender? That's just absurd.

 

[RockRaines]

Speaking of blinders, Kansas City has had one winning season in this century, and that was with 83 wins. Like the state they are from, you've gotta show me. They are perpetual losers until they prove otherwise on the baseball field. Baseball America rankings don't mean a damned thing.

Better park

Larger attendance

"Win Now"

 

 

All at the same time referring to the Royals? LOLLOLOLOLOLOL

[The Ultimate Champion]

Prospects do matter, but there's a decent chance the prospects the Royals gave up don't turn into perrenial all stars. They have played the wait for the prospects game for a long time and it wasn't working out so I don't blame them for this move. I just don't see where you see how this is going to propel them to annual contenders. There is a lot of talent on the roster, but those guys haven't done it before, so in essence guys like Moustakis and Hosmer are nothing more than prospects, so you kind of contradict yourself thinking of them as contenders.

This move signals the proper approach & the proper line of thinking for any major league organization in their spot, i.e. low payroll + lots of young, controllable players + deep farm system. Whether this is all Moore or not I am not sure. This move is a huge win for KC if they keep it going.

 

Moose is a nice player already and represents a value, but I see what you mean on Hosmer. Hosmer's peripherals though in 2011 make me think he's worth the risk given the whole picture.

 

Butler though, and Perez also, are total winners, and I think Moose is a real winner too. That pen has winners in it and I think that if you add enough good, veteran pieces to the mix then that team can and will definitely get on a role. After that, it's all about maintaining the farm system and managing the FA market for the proper fits and values so that the players on the MLB club can be interchangeable pieces when they need to be.