What type of team does Hahn want ?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

So far Hahn has resigned Peavy, signed Keppinger to a 3 year contract and picked up Angel Sanchez in the Rule V. Keeping Peavy gives the Sox depth in the rotation and strength for possible trades . Keppinger and Sanchez fill holes the Sox had at 3rd and utility infielder and both are high contact type hitters.

 

Is there a clear indication of which direction Hahn wants to take the team ?

 

It seem like he wants a LH impact bat and higher OBP types.

 

Is it possible for Hahn to make multiple moves, trade starters ,shed salary, get more prospects and have a competitive team in the next few months ?

 

Besides Floyd and Thornton what Sox are most likely to get traded ?

 

 

[Rowand44]

A good one I hope.

[southsider2k5]

One of the weaknesses of the team, especially after the trades for Youk and company, was a weak bench. The moves so far are adding depth to be able to give guys days off. I think we saw the result of the bench being bad in the last two weeks/month of the season with all of the nagging injuries and the collapse down the stretch. Ventura has got to use his bench more this year.

[Balta1701]

One of the weaknesses of the team, especially after the trades for Youk and company, was a weak bench. The moves so far are adding depth to be able to give guys days off. I think we saw the result of the bench being bad in the last two weeks/month of the season with all of the nagging injuries and the collapse down the stretch. Ventura has got to use his bench more this year.

Would you disagree that part of the reason why the bench was weak was that the guys on it never got playing time? That was my impression for a chunk of the year too.

[NorthSideSox72]

Would you disagree that part of the reason why the bench was weak was that the guys on it never got playing time? That was my impression for a chunk of the year too.

I agree with this an harped on it all year... but there is a circular argument here. Did they not play much because they weren't good options, or were they not good options because they didn't play enough? By bolstering the bench for 2013, Hahn ends the cycle, and we're see if Robin learns a lesson.

 

[southsider2k5]

I agree with this an harped on it all year... but there is a circular argument here. Did they not play much because they weren't good options, or were they not good options because they didn't play enough? By bolstering the bench for 2013, Hahn ends the cycle, and we're see if Robin learns a lesson.

 

 

The bench was obviously better in the first half with guys like Lillibridge and Escobar on it. A guy like Flowers didn't play nearly enough to keep sharp, and I don't think it was a big surprise that Flowers played better when he got a few starts in a row after AJ got hurt. Hudson really hurt the bench with his complete sucking, plus not being able to defend anywhere on the infield.

 

Hopefully Ventura uses the bench more this year, plus I think with the pitching we got stretched out last year, we should be in much better shape there as well.

[Balta1701]

The bench was obviously better in the first half with guys like Lillibridge and Escobar on it. A guy like Flowers didn't play nearly enough to keep sharp, and I don't think it was a big surprise that Flowers played better when he got a few starts in a row after AJ got hurt. Hudson really hurt the bench with his complete sucking, plus not being able to defend anywhere on the infield.

 

Hopefully Ventura uses the bench more this year, plus I think with the pitching we got stretched out last year, we should be in much better shape there as well.

Both Lillibridge and Escobar were quite ineffective/useless for the Sox early in the season as well, but those were the guys where I wonder if they wouldn't have been more useful given playing time. Lilli put up a .422 OPS with the Sox, Escobar .557.

 

Right now, I'm not sure I'm that much more sold on anyone else sitting on the bench than I was last year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'll try to take a stab at who I think the Sox may trade . I have always like Viciedo. He has tremendous upside and is relatively cheap. He's the one position player I'd like to see the Sox keep. He'll be a monster if he can learn to hit righties. He's probably the most movable piece the Sox have. Maybe we could get a similar player who just hits LH for him. Viciedo to FL sounds like a natural fit with the big Cuban population there and with Giancarlo Stanton ( though he's also RH) unhappy they could be the main pieces in a deal.

 

I'd love it if Dunn could be moved though the return would depend on how much salary the Sox eat. Unfortunately some off the guys I like for the Sox are in their division like Alex Gordon and Sin Soo Choo. Brett Gardner and David Murphy,wouldn't be bad adds. Andrew McCuthchen fits the bill as an impact LH bat though most likely unattainable

 

Hahn should look for takers on Rios and Konerko also though PK has 10 and 5 rights I believe. If Sox falter trade deadline should see a lot of action .

[kitekrazy]

I'll try to take a stab at who I think the Sox may trade . I have always like Viciedo. He has tremendous upside and is relatively cheap. He's the one position player I'd like to see the Sox keep. He'll be a monster if he can learn to hit righties. He's probably the most movable piece the Sox have. Maybe we could get a similar player who just hits LH for him. Viciedo to FL sounds like a natural fit with the big Cuban population there and with Giancarlo Stanton ( though he's also RH) unhappy they could be the main pieces in a deal.

 

I'd love it if Dunn could be moved though the return would depend on how much salary the Sox eat. Unfortunately some off the guys I like for the Sox are in their division like Alex Gordon and Sin Soo Choo. Brett Gardner and David Murphy,wouldn't be bad adds. Andrew McCuthchen fits the bill as an impact LH bat though most likely unattainable

 

Hahn should look for takers on Rios and Konerko also though PK has 10 and 5 rights I believe. If Sox falter trade deadline should see a lot of action .

 

1. I don't think Viciedo is as valuable as Sox fans think.

2. I would like to see Dunn gone - but you still have to replace him.

3. Rios is probably your most valuable OF. Only trade him if a deal is too good to be true.

 

Tell me what so impressive with De Aza and Wise that you would get rid of Rios?

 

[witesoxfan]

1. I don't think Viciedo is as valuable as Sox fans think.

2. I would like to see Dunn gone - but you still have to replace him.

3. Rios is probably your most valuable OF. Only trade him if a deal is too good to be true.

 

Tell me what so impressive with De Aza and Wise that you would get rid of Rios?

 

I think trying to compare the value of the outfielders the Sox currently have is comparing an apple to an orange to a banana. Viciedo has value as a young player with promise, De Aza has value as a player in his prime locked up for a few years who will be a solid starting player, and Rios has the highest ceiling but also the highest salary and a has dealt with maddening bouts of inconsistency.

 

If you're looking to package players together, you trade Viciedo; if you're looking to acquire a player in a straight one for one swap, you deal De Aza; if you are looking for a prospect or two, you deal Rios.

[VAfan]

If you're looking to package players together, you trade Viciedo; if you're looking to acquire a player in a straight one for one swap, you deal De Aza; if you are looking for a prospect or two, you deal Rios.

 

How are the Sox going to compete offensively in 2013 if they deal Rios for a prospect or two? Rios was their most consistent hitter, by far. Prospects, by definition, are not ready to produce right now.

[witesoxfan]

How are the Sox going to compete offensively in 2013 if they deal Rios for a prospect or two? Rios was their most consistent hitter, by far. Prospects, by definition, are not ready to produce right now.

 

By using said prospects and freed money to acquire other talents. Or by putting together a team that, if everything falls together, can compete in 2013 with an eye towards 2014 and beyond.

 

If I'd have said that the Sox could trade Rios for a prospect at all after last season, there would have been any number of people saying to jump at it before the other team changed their mind. He is maddeningly inconsistent and could just as easily put up a sub-.700 OPS as he could to repeat last year's season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1. I don't think Viciedo is as valuable as Sox fans think.

2. I would like to see Dunn gone - but you still have to replace him.

3. Rios is probably your most valuable OF. Only trade him if a deal is too good to be true.

 

Tell me what so impressive with De Aza and Wise that you would get rid of Rios?

 

Wite's answered all that as well as I could've but ..

 

1. Notice I didn't say valuable I said movable. Young ,cheap. locked up, power, more outfield assists then any Sox LF since the 1960's, mashes LH's but is low OBP guy and we have way too many of those types.

 

2.Gardner, Murphy ,Gordon, Choo and McCutchen all have decent to good OBP's and all are LH and all still relatively cheap and all under 30 yrs. old. That's the kind of player I'd want or 2 like that who's combined salaries still do not equal 1 yr of Dunn or Rios.

 

3. I will go a step further and say Rios was the best position player the Sox had, but as Wite said he hasn't put together good back to back seasons in a while. Better to sell high , shed the salary and get a piece or 2. Has nothing at all to do with De Aza and Wise being impressive, it's all about freeing up salary to get some pieces to build a better team .

[Balta1701]

By using said prospects and freed money to acquire other talents. Or by putting together a team that, if everything falls together, can compete in 2013 with an eye towards 2014 and beyond.

 

If I'd have said that the Sox could trade Rios for a prospect at all after last season, there would have been any number of people saying to jump at it before the other team changed their mind. He is maddeningly inconsistent and could just as easily put up a sub-.700 OPS as he could to repeat last year's season.

The problem with dealing Rios and trying to contend next year is...the Sox are already looking to spend their resources on bats. If they trade Rios, they're taking Rios's money and trying to find...offensive production to replace Rios. So...whatever team is trading for Rios would get a better deal just trying to find that same production on the free agent market themselves.

 

It's a big reason why a lot of these "we should move player x for prospects and then have money to spend" setups don't work...you're asking the trade partner to give up both prospects and money when they can just go spend money. The teams in this league are too evenly matched on the scouting tools available and the money available for that to work.

[Eminor3rd]

The thing about Rios is that he isn't really an albatross at this point. He has something like 3/36 left on his contract, right? If he was a free agent this offseason, at age 31, he would do substantially better than that, I would think.

[chw42]

The thing about Rios is that he isn't really an albatross at this point. He has something like 3/36 left on his contract, right? If he was a free agent this offseason, at age 31, he would do substantially better than that, I would think.

 

2 and 25 I believe.

[Balta1701]

The thing about Rios is that he isn't really an albatross at this point. He has something like 3/36 left on his contract, right? If he was a free agent this offseason, at age 31, he would do substantially better than that, I would think.

2/$25 guaranteed with a $13.5 option/$1 buyout.

 

The only way he became an albatross was by having 2 incredibly bad years out of 3. Last year was something of a recovery. If he tries to put together another of the 20 worst seasons in MLB history again next year, then he can resume being an albatross.

[beck72]

So far Hahn has resigned Peavy, signed Keppinger to a 3 year contract and picked up Angel Sanchez in the Rule V. Keeping Peavy gives the Sox depth in the rotation and strength for possible trades . Keppinger and Sanchez fill holes the Sox had at 3rd and utility infielder and both are high contact type hitters.

 

Is there a clear indication of which direction Hahn wants to take the team ?

 

It seem like he wants a LH impact bat and higher OBP types.

 

Is it possible for Hahn to make multiple moves, trade starters ,shed salary, get more prospects and have a competitive team in the next few months ?

 

Besides Floyd and Thornton what Sox are most likely to get traded ?

Viciedo comes to mind as a guy likely to be traded. Hahn should be looking at higher OBP guys. In the short term a guy like Jason Kubel could play LF, as the sox need consistent production. Viciedo could bring back some talent for the long term-LH bat, someone who could hit for avg, get on base. Think a guy in AA, AAA, maybe ready by end of next year but for 2014. Dayan prob. Won't hit for avg. and won't walk at all. the sox run the risk of him pulling a Gordon, peaking in his first year.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Viciedo comes to mind as a guy likely to be traded. Hahn should be looking at higher OBP guys. In the short term a guy like Jason Kubel could play LF, as the sox need consistent production. Viciedo could bring back some talent for the long term-LH bat, someone who could hit for avg, get on base. Think a guy in AA, AAA, maybe ready by end of next year but for 2014. Dayan prob. Won't hit for avg. and won't walk at all. the sox run the risk of him pulling a Gordon, peaking in his first year.

I just don't get the hate Viciedo gets on this board. The kid is going to turn 24 next March and only has one full major league season under his belt, yet so many people are ready to write him off already. What in god's name makes you think he may have already peaked?

 

Also, I bolded the part of your post that bothers me the most. The kid is going to hit a lot better than .255 and I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes close to a .300 hitter in his prime. And while he'll never have a great OBP, he's going to walk a lot more as he matures as a hitter and naturally becomes more selective. He showed great improvement in this area in his last season in AAA and even showed some signs for us last year.

 

And let's not forget that this kid hit 25 home-runs as a rookie. The power is his best tool and I'm not sure why so many people are eager to get rid of it given the age of our current 3, 4, & 5 hitters.

 

[Balta1701]

I just don't get the hate Viciedo gets on this board.

90% of it is from one guy.

[joeynach]

Well we don't know much about Hahn and his style yet, but from I have been able to gather he would compare similar to Theo Epstein or Jed Hoyer. Hahn is very affluent and well educated man, from his wiki page, "Hahn is a graduate of the University of Michigan, Harvard Law School, and Kellogg Graduate School of Management (Northwestern University)". We can assume he is a very through, articulate, and detailed oriented individual. I have also heard him say that he believes in the balance between traditional scouting and player development, and new age metrics and statistical analysis. Apparently, like Theo, he too has an army sabermatricians and metric analysts. I expect Hahn to be a "max value" guy, not necessarily a "big splash" guy (think Jim Hendry). I expect him to be methodical in his searches and moves, I expect him to move slower as a result, and I expect him to make a lot of moves that seem strange, small, or unfitting that turn out to be great moves of high impact to the team. I can't sit here and say oh hes a team OBP guy, oh hes a defensive minded guy, oh hes a pitching first guy, b/c honestly, I don't know. But I can tell you that we have a guy who will put analysis, logic, strategy into every move he makes, he reminds me of Theo, where it may not seem like much, but every move is part of some fundamental core or plan.

[beck72]

I just don't get the hate Viciedo gets on this board. The kid is going to turn 24 next March and only has one full major league season under his belt, yet so many people are ready to write him off already. What in god's name makes you think he may have already peaked?

 

Also, I bolded the part of your post that bothers me the most. The kid is going to hit a lot better than .255 and I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes close to a .300 hitter in his prime. And while he'll never have a great OBP, he's going to walk a lot more as he matures as a hitter and naturally becomes more selective. He showed great improvement in this area in his last season in AAA and even showed some signs for us last year.

 

And let's not forget that this kid hit 25 home-runs as a rookie. The power is his best tool and I'm not sure why so many people are eager to get rid of it given the age of our current 3, 4, & 5 hitters.

There's no hate at all. It's just the sox entire team makeup can't be low OBP, low AVG guys who all hit RH. Alexei, Gordon, Flowers and Rios reverting back to his career norms all project to be similar type hitters as Dayan. The Sox supposedly put his name out there. If they are willing to dangle him, they may be worried other teams may be able to solve him. With his very respectable 2012, you'd think he'd be a cornerstone. Hahn may be thinking differently. And if teams offer up enough talent to fill multiple holes, I could see where a trade would make sense.

[Chicago White Sox]

There's no hate at all. It's just the sox entire team makeup can't be low OBP, low AVG guys who all hit RH. Alexei, Gordon, Flowers and Rios reverting back to his career norms all project to be similar type hitters as Dayan. The Sox supposedly put his name out there. If they are willing to dangle him, they may be worried other teams may be able to solve him. With his very respectable 2012, you'd think he'd be a cornerstone. Hahn may be thinking differently. And if teams offer up enough talent to fill multiple holes, I could see where a trade would make sense.

I wouldn't call Flowers low OBP and I wouldn't call Rios low average, but I agree that our offense is too right-handed and needs more high contact and/or high OBP hitters. If Hahn really wants to improve the offense he's got to move one of our right-handed hitters, I just don't think Viciedo is the guy to move. He has the potential to become a solid contact hitter with plus power and is under team control for five more seasons. Unless you can use him in a package for a left-handed middle of the order hitter, I don't see a reason to move him.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Chicago White Sox

[beck72]

I wouldn't call Flowers low OBP and I wouldn't call Rios low average, but I agree that our offense is too right-handed and needs more high contact and/or high OBP hitters. If Hahn really wants to improve the offense he's got to move one of our right-handed hitters, I just don't think Viciedo is the guy to move. He has the potential to become a solid contact hitter with plus power and is under team control for five more seasons. Unless you can use him in a package for a left-handed middle of the order hitter, I don't see a reason to move him.

It is weird that no media reports have talked about Rios moving, or being on the trade block, with De Aza or Dayan mentioned. You'd think he'd be a nice get if someone was looking for an OFer. Esp. with how up and down Rios has been over the years. That's why the idea of selling high on Dayan, if the Sox think he might not improve a lot, isn't completely crazy.

[cabiness42]

I just don't get the hate Viciedo gets on this board. The kid is going to turn 24 next March and only has one full major league season under his belt, yet so many people are ready to write him off already. What in god's name makes you think he may have already peaked?

 

Also, I bolded the part of your post that bothers me the most. The kid is going to hit a lot better than .255 and I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes close to a .300 hitter in his prime. And while he'll never have a great OBP, he's going to walk a lot more as he matures as a hitter and naturally becomes more selective. He showed great improvement in this area in his last season in AAA and even showed some signs for us last year.

 

And let's not forget that this kid hit 25 home-runs as a rookie. The power is his best tool and I'm not sure why so many people are eager to get rid of it given the age of our current 3, 4, & 5 hitters.

 

I don't hate Viciedo. However, the Sox lineup as a whole is way too right-handed and way too low-OBP, and Viciedo is the right-handed low-OBP buy with the most trade value. I wouldn't advocate moving him just to get rid of him, but if he can be part of a deal that makes a significant improvement in the OBP of this team, I think it needs to be done. He also does not have much defensive value.