Buehrle>Wood Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:06 AM) Yeahfor the bottom line, we'll see about the box score. Yeah, the only way to possibly defend this move is from a business perspective. We just got a massive downgrade in a huge position of need. Do we have any capable catchers in the minors? Edited December 21, 2012 by Buehrle>Wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 05:53 PM) Love how people are so happy to move on from him. We have Tyler Flowers now as a starter. Tyler Flowers is an awful f***ing baseball player. Someone we all wanted cut at the ASB last year. Now he is the future. Great. The catcher hole is now almost bad as the 3B was. Tyler Flowers had a .708 OPS last year in partial playing time. We got nothing close to that from our 3B last year prior to Youkilis coming on board. Plus Flowers is a much better defensive catcher. Most of us love AJ here, but he's not going to repeat last year and we need to see what we have in Flowers. IMO, this was the correct baseball decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) Yeah, the only way to possibly defend this move is from a business perspective. We just got a massive downgrade in a huge position of need. Do we have any capable catchers in the minors? Giminez, Phegley, not sure of your definition of capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien According to a baseball source the Yankees did make a 1-year offer to A.J. Pierzynski, but he chose the Rangers. Still no word on the money in this deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) Yeah, the only way to possibly defend this move is from a business perspective. We just got a massive downgrade in a huge position of need. Flowers > defensively. The question is how will he fare offensively with regular starts. If AJ regresses back to the mean, then it won't take that many HRs and BBs for Flowers to be his equal with the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) Yeah, the only way to possibly defend this move is from a business perspective. We just got a massive downgrade in a huge position of need. Do we have any capable catchers in the minors? Flowers is our catching prospect. Sox fans want us to develop prospects then hate when we let go of a 36 year old catcher to let the kids play. We have a few other guys in the minors that look like they'd be replacement level catchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:10 AM) Giminez, Phegley, not sure of your definition of capable. A potential starter at catcher in MLB at some point. Flowers is not one, or at least not a decent one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:13 PM) A potential starter at catcher in MLB at some point. Flowers is not one, or at least not a decent one. Then no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:13 PM) A potential starter at catcher in MLB at some point. Flowers is not one, or at least not a decent one. Phegley lost some time in development because of a disease he was battling, however I don't think the book is out on him yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:10 PM) Tyler Flowers had a .708 OPS last year in partial playing time. We got nothing close to that from our 3B last year prior to Youkilis coming on board. Plus Flowers is a much better defensive catcher. Most of us love AJ here, but he's not going to repeat last year and we need to see what we have in Flowers. IMO, this was the correct baseball decision. When Carlton Fisk was 35, a lot of people thought he was washed up. He lasted as a productive player for another 8 years or so. The odds are AJ is going to breakdown fairly soon, but to think he will fall apart next season based just on his age would be short sided. I have no idea what the Sox could have signed AJ for, but it was for one year and they are trying to win. Odds are AJ will out produce Flowers in 2013 plus we are going to be seeing a back up catcher play more often than we are used to. This decision should be judged by what they do with the money it would have cost to bing AJ back, sort of like the CLee deal. Edited December 21, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:10 AM) Tyler Flowers had a .708 OPS last year in partial playing time. We got nothing close to that from our 3B last year prior to Youkilis coming on board. Plus Flowers is a much better defensive catcher. Most of us love AJ here, but he's not going to repeat last year and we need to see what we have in Flowers. IMO, this was the correct baseball decision. That's why I said almost. Flowers is not the answer. Far from it. Fortunately he's not as bad as Morel, because, well, that's pretty much impossible. But the catcher position just became a massive hole. One that we seemingly have no solution to correct. If we want to compete for a division title, which I had thought we did, then this move makes 0 sense. Edited December 21, 2012 by Buehrle>Wood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:09 PM) Yeah, the only way to possibly defend this move is from a business perspective. We just got a massive downgrade in a huge position of need. Do we have any capable catchers in the minors? Downgrade??? Catchers are about defense AJ's sucked lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (JoshPR @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:24 AM) Downgrade??? Catchers are about defense AJ's sucked lately Uh, yeah, "downgrade". Not even the biggest Tyler Flowers backers would argue otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 dude's never been on the DL - I mean sure maybe it'll happen some day, but he's not significantly more likely to get hurt next year than he was last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) It was time to move on. Use that money elsewhere.... Now we can hate him again haha Edited December 21, 2012 by Cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) Yeah, the only way to possibly defend this move is from a business perspective. We just got a massive downgrade in a huge position of need. Do we have any capable catchers in the minors? There are plenty of ways to defend this move from an on-the-field view as well. AJ had the arm of a 7 year old girl, he was awful on balls in the dirt, and he just had a complete outlier of an offensive year at age 35. I think there is a fair chance that Tyler out OPS's AJ next year. I'm not convinced AJ will even be anywhere near AJ next year. Plus playing 120-130 games in Texas's heat with the catchers gear on? Brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:17 PM) When Carlton Fisk was 35, a lot of people thought he was washed up. He lasted as a productive player for another 8 years or so. The odds are AJ is going to breakdown fairly soon, but to think he will fall apart next season based just on his age would be short sided. I have no idea what the Sox could have signed AJ for, but it was for one year and they are trying to win. Odds are AJ will out produce Flowers in 2013 plus we are going to be seeing a back up catcher play more often than we are used to. This decision should be judged by what they do with the money it would have cost to bing AJ back, sort of like the CLee deal. Short sighted? When the argument involves one guy who had pretty good success past this age, I'd say the odds are pretty good for a break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:30 PM) Short sighted? When the argument involves one guy who had pretty good success past this age, I'd say the odds are pretty good for a break down. Thank you. That comment was a head scratcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 He was never coming back. Hahn did not want a major PR explosion if he stated it publicly that AJ was not going to be resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Will always love AJ but it was time to move on. Yes, the catchers spot of 2013 wont produce like it did in 2012 but I'm not so sure that the AJ Pierzynski of 2013 will outproduce the Tyler Flowers of 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:25 PM) Uh, yeah, "downgrade". Not even the biggest Tyler Flowers backers would argue otherwise. I would. Flowers' wRC+ (similar to OPS+, but better metric) as a White Sox is 88. AJ had a wRC+ at or below 88 in four of his eight seasons with the Sox. As for defense, AJ is below average, Flowers is above average. Unless you think AJ is likely to not regress from his career-best offensive season, they are not that far apart. Even if AJ did replicate the power surge he had, the difference between the two over a full year is maybe one win. Considering Flowers is pre-arb for a few years and will make near the league minimum, letting him take the reigns is the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:25 PM) Uh, yeah, "downgrade". Not even the biggest Tyler Flowers backers would argue otherwise. I would it may a small downgrade. For me it's defense first and Flowers will be much better in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 What we need to use money on is a LH bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:30 PM) Short sighted? When the argument involves one guy who had pretty good success past this age, I'd say the odds are pretty good for a break down. The point is eventually using age as the reason he will be worthless will be correct, but there is a pretty good chance he doesn't fall apart in 2013, considering there was no slippage in 2012. It will be interesting to see how Flowers handles the bigger workload and the higher expectations that come with it. There also is going to be another 15-20 extra games we will see the back up catcher. Giving AJ a one year deal was not very risky. What they do with the money is going to be the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 What are some FA catchers on the market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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