ScottyDo Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:08 PM) No he hasn't If we're going to get technical for funsies, neither has AJP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:04 AM) Sale and Quintana only. Peavy does not qualify for the technical Verducci effect due to his advanced age. He's been up there before in innings, he knows what it's like, and he knows how to deal with it. Still, you get the idea...his innings shot up to a level where they haven't been in 5 years. If Cooper holds his top 5-6 starters together and they pitch like they're capable of, then that's a big improvement on last year. You've got a deep rotation with a legit #1 and several guys who could be #2's. Compared to the line of struggling rookies and guys getting tired at the end of the season we saw last year, that could be your big, division challenging upgrade. The downside risk though, is that three or four of these guys tire out early, put up ERA's in the 4's, and maybe even get hurt and don't throw 150 innings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:10 AM) If we're going to get technical for funsies, neither has AJP Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:26 AM) Which is funny, because both fangraphs and B-R have him being better on defense in 2012 than he was in 2011. The only year he's been moderately below average on defense was 2011. Aside from that, including 2012, he's been about average with everything rolled in together. How do they rate catcher's? Anybody who's being honest with themselves and watched the Sox a lot last year can see that AJ was brutal behind the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:05 AM) Hahn not bringing back AJ isn't about the money Winner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) How do they rate catcher's? Anybody who's being honest with themselves and watched the Sox a lot last year can see that AJ was brutal behind the plate. AJ was worse than usual at stopping the ball, but better than usual throwing runners out. Throwing a runner out takes a runner out of scoring position and gets an out, so that's a big impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I'm not going to say Flowers is a suitable replacement for AJ, but you can't overstate how terrible he was defensively last year. Why do you think a catcher who put up an .827 OPS last year could only get a 1 year deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 08:49 AM) Correct. Some may think that's a consequence of the pitchers being more prepared, but that's something he definitely improved on. Aj was 27-103 last year in throwing out runners, for 26.2% Flowers was 14-42 for 33.3% AJ improved from an AL second worst 20.3% the year prior. I do really buy in that a lot of that was pitchers though. Guys like Floyd and Peavy actually used the slide step a ton more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:21 PM) AJ was worse than usual at stopping the ball, but better than usual throwing runners out. Throwing a runner out takes a runner out of scoring position and gets an out, so that's a big impact. Well, it's not like he was GREAT at that...just better than pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:22 AM) I'm not going to say Flowers is a suitable replacement for AJ, but you can't overstate how terrible he was defensively last year. Why do you think a catcher who put up an .827 OPS last year could only get a 1 year deal? Because he's in his late 30's, has a negative reputation around the league, and put up an average .730 OPS/89 OPS+ over the 8 years prior to that .827 OPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Flowers won't have the all-around impact of AJ...after all, we've mostly seen him slugging off lefties, and he's about to get into a more everyday role (barring additional moves). But - Flowers does not have to have that impact. We've saved money by going with the cheap labor route at C. We may have even added some defense. Now we spend said savings elsewhere. We don't have many young players in the ranks ready to be just-decent at the major league level, but Flowers is likely one of those. Teams plug those guys in and then spend money on the areas they don't have. That's what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 IF Flowers plays up to his potential, and IF the pitching holds up, and IF Keppinger can be a servicable (or better) every day 3B, the Sox cannot compete with Detroit, and may not be as good as KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:23 AM) Well, it's not like he was GREAT at that...just better than pathetic I'm not saying he was great at anything back there...but I'm defending him against people who say he doesn't even belong at catcher any more. He's not Buster Posey back there, but compared to having HGeovannyH Soto as your starting catcher...come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) How do they rate catcher's? Anybody who's being honest with themselves and watched the Sox a lot last year can see that AJ was brutal behind the plate. By height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:24 AM) Because he's in his late 30's, has a negative reputation around the league, and put up an average .730 OPS/89 OPS+ over the 8 years prior to that .827 OPS. If he could still catch the ball he would've gotten at least 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) IF Flowers plays up to his potential, and IF the pitching holds up, and IF Keppinger can be a servicable (or better) every day 3B, the Sox cannot compete with Detroit, and may not be as good as KC. Why not? If the pitching slightly improves on last year, when it was the biggest weakness on the team, why can that not be worth a couple of wins? If Keppinger is serviceable then the Sox have the same 3b setup they had last year, and if Flowers is adequate behind the plate last year, then they lose a slight bit of offense from the #4 offense in the league (which they might well make up for with defense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:26 AM) By height. And by cup size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) How do they rate catcher's? Anybody who's being honest with themselves and watched the Sox a lot last year can see that AJ was brutal behind the plate. He was still docked about half a win for his defense on b-r.com. Which means he's given up that many runs defensively in four of the past five seasons. It was clear from the eye test like you say that his pitch blocking ability was lacking. AJ had 54 wild pitches thrown to him (some of those should be "wild pitches"), which was 10 more than any other catcher in the AL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:24 AM) IF Flowers plays up to his potential, and IF the pitching holds up, and IF Keppinger can be a servicable (or better) every day 3B, the Sox cannot compete with Detroit, and may not be as good as KC. But AJ Pierzysnki solves all those problems. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:25 AM) I'm not saying he was great at anything back there...but I'm defending him against people who say he doesn't even belong at catcher any more. He's not Buster Posey back there, but compared to having HGeovannyH Soto as your starting catcher...come on. Forget about blocking pitches, if he had to move at all to catch an ordinary pitch it was alarming how many times he missed the ball. He was so bad at it, I wondered if there was something seriously wrong with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 Computers do not agree with you guys and say Sox are one of the least improved teams this offseason. See table in this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 By height. Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 I wonder if Texas is planning to use him as their everyday catcher. Sending him out there in that heat every day is going to be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:33 AM) I wonder if Texas is planning to use him as their everyday catcher. Sending him out there in that heat every day is going to be tough. He's got a decent RH backup in HGeovannyH. If he needs extra time off compared to last year, that's a good setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:33 AM) I wonder if Texas is planning to use him as their everyday catcher. Sending him out there in that heat every day is going to be tough. They already re-signed Geovany Soto, so they will be in a L/R platoon I assume. There is talk that they will use AJP as DH sometimes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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