elrockinMT Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 07:19 PM) Compared to what I thought he'd get at the start of the year, if the Rangers can get AJ for 2/$10, I have no idea why they wouldn't. Or if we can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) Or if we can! If the White Sox are sitting on a $100 million salary limit, then 2/$10 is a lot to commit to AJ. Might do it, but would try to draw it out and see what other options are available, particularly if the team has any confidence at all in Flowers sitting there. The Rangers have HGeovannyH Soto and 27 year old Luis Martinez sitting there, they currently have a salary sitting just over $100 million in commitments, and they started the season over $120 million last year while still having room to talk about adding Cliff Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (Sox1 @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 07:42 AM) Buster Olney tweets that AJ might be back with the Sox. Please no..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't have a huge issue with AJ returning - he is still a good offensive hitting catcher, BUT, I'd want to see his playing time cut back to about a 55-45 (towards AJ) so that he's fresher in the 2nd half. Maybe I'm incorrect in my perception, but he seems to hit the wall by August/September the last few seasons. He is a left handed bat though so I see value there, and I wouldn't be opposed to using him, if not in my split above with Flowers, but perhaps 2 times a week at catcher and then maybe 1 once a week at 1B/DH to help rest Dunn/Konerko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 if the Sox have any conviction that Flowers is a big-league catcher, it's time to give him a chance. Sure seems that many of the pitchers prefer throwing to him. He's better at stopping the running game. I'm ready to move on -- and use the AJ money elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) For what it might be worth, Boers on 670 has maintained that the Sox don't actually think super highly of Flowers. The last time I heard that said on-air, mind you, was last year mid-year. I can't imagine why that would be, as he has the minor league history and not-awful major league experience so far. Maybe the one issue is-- we just STILL don't know what to make of this guy. Is he the minor leaguer who piled up OBP and had some power? Or the major leaguer who doesn't get on base but has considerable power production? Defensively, we expected bad and actually got good-- but how big a sample have we? We're sort of backed into being win-now, but that still works with Tyler if we are reappropriating the would-be AJP money. Flowers against righties is still questionable enough to mean we should seek a veteran lefty C Edited December 11, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) For what it might be worth, Boers on 670 has maintained that the Sox don't actually think super highly of Flowers. The last time I heard that said on-air, mind you, was last year mid-year. I can't imagine why that would be, as he has the minor league history and not-awful major league experience so far. Maybe the one issue is-- we just STILL don't know what to make of this guy. Is he the minor leaguer who piled up OBP and had some power? Or the major leaguer who doesn't get on base but has considerable power production? Defensively, we expected bad and actually got good-- but how big a sample have we? We're sort of backed into being win-now, but that still works with Tyler if we are reappropriating the would-be AJP money. Flowers against righties is still questionable enough to mean we should seek a veteran lefty C In limited ABs, Tyler Flowers actually has a higher OPS against RHP than LHP, and neither has ever created too much of a problem for him. I don't worry about that so much as just getting a good backup as an insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) In limited ABs, Tyler Flowers actually has a higher OPS against RHP than LHP, and neither has ever created too much of a problem for him. I don't worry about that so much as just getting a good backup as an insurance policy. You're right. I'm more so just concerned about that sudden drop off in power for his at-bats against righties. If you're an everyday player (and right-handed)...you've got to do what you do well...well. But again, he's still so unknown in that regard, maybe I'm wrong to even point out what his strength is 'supposed' to be Edited December 11, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 If AJ can be had on a 1+1 type deal, in the range of $5M per or less... then I think you have to jump at that. You platoon him with Flowers. AJ plays 2/3 at first, and slowly change it as needed or based on how they are doing. Get Flowers some DH chances here and there to increase AB's. if AJ doesn't fade, then it was just another year to get Flowers a little more playing time. If Aj fades, then it becomes Flowers 2/3 by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) You have to trade Flowers if AJ is resigned. Package Flowers, Gavin and Thorton and you should be able to get a good piece or at least some high ceiling prospect(s). That's what I thought. It's either Flowers' time with the Sox or it's not. Wasn't that the same scenario with Karko and Fisk? Was Fisk the guy blocking Karko? As far as AJP, he's earned 6 mill a year again for another two years. If he wants three years, bye bye. Trade Thornton to dump that salary and you get a real bargain with AJ. Buzzkill Thornton really is not needed anymore. Edited December 11, 2012 by greg775 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I really don't care if flowers hits like Ron karkovice if he calls a good game and plays good D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 07:33 PM) If the White Sox are sitting on a $100 million salary limit, then 2/$10 is a lot to commit to AJ. Might do it, but would try to draw it out and see what other options are available, particularly if the team has any confidence at all in Flowers sitting there. The Rangers have HGeovannyH Soto and 27 year old Luis Martinez sitting there, they currently have a salary sitting just over $100 million in commitments, and they started the season over $120 million last year while still having room to talk about adding Cliff Lee. Hahn said there is no salary crunch remember? The Rangers can squak all they want but in my opinion they want Hamilton back and will pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (JoshPR @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 10:25 PM) I really don't care if flowers hits like Ron karkovice if he calls a good game and plays good D AJ did a much better job this past season in holding runners because our pitchers finally did a better job. Other than he k's too much and probably won't hit for much of an average I have nothing against Tyler Flowers. We may very well be starting the season with him behind the plate, but I think AJP makes us a better team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 04:42 PM) AJ did a much better job this past season in holding runners because our pitchers finally did a better job. Other than he k's too much and probably won't hit for much of an average I have nothing against Tyler Flowers. We may very well be starting the season with him behind the plate, but I think AJP makes us a better team Finally coaching stepped in and righted what was a huge hole in our game. Also taking infield seemed to lead to a huge improvement on knowing what to actually do with the ball in certain situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (JoshPR @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) I really don't care if flowers hits like Ron karkovice if he calls a good game and plays good D I think it's easier to say this when you have a great offense in place around him. The hitting catcher is only to be called a luxury if the rest of your team makes that add up. Like Girardi in NYY. Put Flowers into last year's lineup, and we have the defense-first hole in the lineup at three spots 2B, SS, C. Then, if you're like me, project to next year where we should assume another one joins that mix (LF? either Rios or Dunn?). I don't want more lineup holes, I want fewer. We have to acknowledge AJ was carrying a huge load. But I also won't miss the swinging at everything inflation of batting average, so I'm definitely open to the Sox' creativity this offseason. I expect Flowers to hit, or else be a career backup. That's what our Javy trade created as far as expectations...and this coming year looks like we finally get an extended look. Edited December 11, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Defense for a catcher isn't only holding runners on or throwing them out, it's part but not all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 AJ can't catch the ball anymore. He's so bad at it, it's like there's something wrong with him. That said, I can't see him getting less than what Youkillis signed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 12, 2012 -> 12:36 AM) AJ can't catch the ball anymore. He's so bad at it, it's like there's something wrong with him. That said, I can't see him getting less than what Youkillis signed for. If he gets 12 million a year, wow, he's done a heckuva job negotiating. I remember those instances the ball skipped off his shins or by him. I don't think it happened all that much, though. Not at all like the end of Fisk's career when he couldn't see the ball at all and catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 08:27 PM) If he gets 12 million a year, wow, he's done a heckuva job negotiating. I remember those instances the ball skipped off his shins or by him. I don't think it happened all that much, though. Not at all like the end of Fisk's career when he couldn't see the ball at all and catch it. The season he had last year could have earned him $12 mil next year if it weren't for his age and reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 AJ better be dam cheap or forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 07:36 PM) AJ can't catch the ball anymore. He's so bad at it, it's like there's something wrong with him. That said, I can't see him getting less than what Youkillis signed for. We finally agree on something. AJ is awful behind the plate. We already have a DH. Let AJ walk and let's move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pktmotion Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Flowers need sunlight to bloom. Say no to AJ, it's time to close that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Philips Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 08:39 PM) AJ better be dam cheap or forget about it. How cheap is damn cheap. I am not a fan of his when it comes to throwing out base stealer but without that man we would be in the same predicament as the Cubs still waiting for a world series championship. We as sox fans have to pay a little respect to him. The allegiance of Aj to the managers, management, players fans should not be understated. Watching him in spring training with Ozzie etc will make you value him more. I would not be surpised if he does resign with the sox and whatever he receives I won't complain because he desrves it and it is not coming out of my pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I know we need the LH bat, but all good things must come to and end and I believe AJ's time in Chicago is done. That said, I love what AJ did while he was here and he is the most likeable obnoxious jerk I've ever been exposed to. Thanks for the memories AJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 QUOTE (pktmotion @ Dec 11, 2012 -> 09:55 PM) Flowers need sunlight to bloom. Say no to AJ, it's time to close that book. Never have I seen something so cheesy and loved it so much Kudos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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