southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 03:53 PM) Bourn has been an all star, has won 2 gold gloves AND stole more bases last season than DeAza has in his entire career. If I was writing the check, I'd stick with DeAza, but, I'm not, so I'd rather have the better player. That is about a $14 million difference there. Are you willing to get Bourn AND give away players to make up his salary, because that is what it would take in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 06:42 PM) That is about a $14 million difference there. Are you willing to get Bourn AND give away players to make up his salary, because that is what it would take in reality. I'd be very happy if the Sox could get Bourn and trade away Rios. And OF of De Aza, Bourn, and Viciedo would be nice, and that 1-2 punch of De Aza and Bourn at the top of the lineup would make the Sox much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 05:17 PM) If you attend games, then you are writing the check. I don't mind the idea of a player like Bourn, even if it were replacing Viciedo, but Bourn is simply not going to be an option due to his pending price tag. $15 million is a ton for a marginal upgrade. Please review the Guidelines of the board, specifically: "Personal attacks towards other posters will not be tolerated. People will be treated with respect at all times." i mean... he has a point... i don't think nostradamus is that offensive... and also i agree with you. bourn ain't worth it. Edited December 18, 2012 by KyYlE23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2012 -> 04:17 PM) If you attend games, then you are writing the check. I don't mind the idea of a player like Bourn, even if it were replacing Viciedo, but Bourn is simply not going to be an option due to his pending price tag. $15 million is a ton for a marginal upgrade. Please review the Guidelines of the board, specifically: "Personal attacks towards other posters will not be tolerated. People will be treated with respect at all times." gmab, lol i didn't see a personal attack, if you did you're fishing for one back to lurking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The Nostradamus remark hit me as very condescending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The Nostradamus remark hit me as very condescending. I didn't mean to be condescending or disrespectful. I was trying to make the point that NOBODY can predict what a player will do in the future, especially one with such as small "sample size" like DeAza. I apologize if I offended anyone, and will be more careful in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) I didn't mean to be condescending or disrespectful. I was trying to make the point that NOBODY can predict what a player will do in the future, especially one with such as small "sample size" like DeAza. I apologize if I offended anyone, and will be more careful in the future. Wasn't that exactly what you were doing when you called Bourn a REAL lead off hitter, and implying De Aza was not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/12/17/377...h-the-white-sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Wasn't that exactly what you were doing when you called Bourn a REAL lead off hitter, and implying De Aza was not? Bourn has been a full time starter since 2007, whereas DeAza has been a full time starter since 2012. Thus, it's easier (more logical) to predict Bourn's future numbers than it is to predict DeAza's since you have a larger "sample size" with which to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) Bourn has been a full time starter since 2007, whereas DeAza has been a full time starter since 2012. Thus, it's easier (more logical) to predict Bourn's future numbers than it is to predict DeAza's since you have a larger "sample size" with which to use. De Aza was good with the Sox for a short stint in 2011. What is the cutoff for becoming REAL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2012/12/17/377...h-the-white-sox I certainly dont believe "The outcome of an entire division hangs on that bit of news coming across the wires"(if AJ is re-signed) He is a piece, not a lynchpin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:09 AM) I certainly dont believe "The outcome of an entire division hangs on that bit of news coming across the wires"(if AJ is re-signed) He is a piece, not a lynchpin Not to mention this kinda speaks to a wee bit of bias here... At some point -- some days after ten minutes of snoozing, on others two hours -- I reach for my cellphone and check text messages, emails, and Twitter, in that order. Usually I'm not looking for anything specific, but lately I've been on a mission: I want to see if the White Sox re-signed A.J. Pierzynski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) De Aza was good with the Sox for a short stint in 2011. What is the cutoff for becoming REAL? Perhaps a good time to note: looking at De Aza's entire minor league career....he has the look of one of those guys that (1) produced well at all levels (2) got an injury (3) came back eventually and actually didn't miss a beat (4) just got lost for awhile in the blob of prospects out there (5) performed well when he finally got his late 20s real chance. He never really was a crappy prospect, just an ignored solid one. Edited December 18, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:11 AM) Not to mention this kinda speaks to a wee bit of bias here... I quit reading at "Jeff Keppinger-Brent Morel platoon." That doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Well he talks about OBP being a problem for the Sox and then basically alludes to the fact that Pierzynski doesn't get on at a good clip Losing Pierzynski, a solid contact hitter with a career .324 OBP, means that the team's ability to get on base basically implodes. A .324 OBP is so good that without it, the team will not get on base. They aren't losing a roided up, .600+ OBP Barry Bonds here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) Perhaps a good time to note: looking at De Aza's entire minor league career....he has the look of one of those guys that (1) produced well at all levels (2) got an injury (3) came back eventually and actually didn't miss a beat (4) just got lost for awhile in the blob of prospects out there (5) performed well when he finally got his late 20s real chance. He never really was a crappy prospect, just an ignored solid one. That was the thing, he constantly dealt with injuries, and he was injured a bit this year too. There are durability concerns, but he's always been a good hitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 It seems like the rest of baseball is telling AJ that he and the White Sox are made for each other. Personally, I'm ready for the Sox to move on. But if they got him back at 1 year/5 mil, I wouldn't be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 12:26 PM) Well he talks about OBP being a problem for the Sox and then basically alludes to the fact that Pierzynski doesn't get on at a good clip A .324 OBP is so good that without it, the team will not get on base. They aren't losing a roided up, .600+ OBP Barry Bonds here. *she and, good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 De Aza was good with the Sox for a short stint in 2011. What is the cutoff for becoming REAL? As I implied previously, after Gordon Beckham's rookie season, everybody labeled him "future superstar". (Supposedly, the Sox were offered Adrian Gonzalez for him and turned it down.) After 3-4 years, would you say he's lived up to expectations? Doubt it. I think after 2-3 years as a full time player, you can kinda sense what a player's career will be like. There are a LOT of anomalies, but for every RA Dickey (who becomes a star late in his career) there are hundreds of Gordon Beckhams (guys who fizzle out/never play up to "expectations".). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 11:58 AM) As I implied previously, after Gordon Beckham's rookie season, everybody labeled him "future superstar". (Supposedly, the Sox were offered Adrian Gonzalez for him and turned it down.) After 3-4 years, would you say he's lived up to expectations? Doubt it. I think after 2-3 years as a full time player, you can kinda sense what a player's career will be like. There are a LOT of anomalies, but for every RA Dickey (who becomes a star late in his career) there are hundreds of Gordon Beckhams (guys who fizzle out/never play up to "expectations".). Have you got a link for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) Have you got a link for that? If I remember correctly, this was rumor mill stuff. But I believe I heard a KW interview where..when pressed on this...he gave one of his direct indirect answers (implying that they preferred future cost control at a position that can be tough to get a great player at) And yes, by answering in this way sans link..I am piling on rumors. I will be interested to see if anyone has links Edited December 18, 2012 by Jose Paniagua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 18, 2012 -> 12:21 PM) If I remember correctly, this was rumor mill stuff. But I believe I heard a KW interview where..when pressed on this...he gave one of his direct indirect answers (implying that they preferred future cost control at a position that can be tough to get a great player at) And yes, by answering in this way sans link..I am piling on rumors. I will be interested to see if anyone has links I remember it being discussed as a message board "would you" type discussion. I don't ever remember that a deal was actually turned down by the Sox because it had Gordo in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Even if Gonzalez was offered for Beckham, which seems rather unlikely, Gonzalez wouldn't be a White Sox anymore anyway. He makes over $20 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 AJP and his agent are meeting with the Rangers today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Even if Gonzalez was offered for Beckham, which seems rather unlikely, Gonzalez wouldn't be a White Sox anymore anyway. He makes over $20 million a year. Yeah he would, cuz they wouldn't have re-signed Konerko if they had Adrian Gonzalez. That's not the point anyway...the point was that no player can be ACCURATELY judged based on his first year as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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