LittleHurt05 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 09:51 AM) I will agree with you IF Bourn signs with an AL team. Hitting in the AL is much more difficult than hitting in the NL. How do you figure? The pitching talent is just as good in the NL as the AL, if not better. And if you believe in the whole lineup protection idea, NL hitters don't have DHs behind them for protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 09:57 AM) He is also going to cost about 30 X's as much as De Aza, plus a contract that runs four to five years long. There is also a really good chance that he flames out and becomes a Chone Figgins after his speed gives out. If your payroll is limited, you need guys like De Aza to balance out the bigger contracts. Why is that so difficult to understand? Also want to throw out that Bourn had a lower OPS than De Aza last year (.760 to .739) which makes the speed aspect of his game that much more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 One of the biggest factors in Bourn's large WAR last year was his fielding which, while I don't doubt was incredible, is also less predictable from year to year and loses a bit of its advantage in a smaller park like USCF. He's a great player, he's just not worth it for the Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) IMO a 1 year/$4 million offer to AJ is insulting, and sends a bad message as to how some players are "taken care of" by ownership.his last sox contract was 2 years for $8 million. That's $4million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 09:53 AM) I guess I just don't get the Michael Bourn obsession. He's barely got a .700 career OPS and will cost 12+ million more than De Aza. No thank you. Last year, Michael Bourn was a 6.4 WAR and De Aza was a 2.7. He's a much better player, but given the Sox payroll contraints, I don't know if that would be money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) Last year, Michael Bourn was a 6.4 WAR and De Aza was a 2.7. He's a much better player, but given the Sox payroll contraints, I don't know if that would be money well spent. As long as his speed holds up... He'll be 30 next year, and 35 by the end of a five year deal, which he is looking for. His SB total fell from 61 to 42 last year, while his CS went from 14 to 13. To me that is a big red flag for a guy that wants $75 million or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 09:45 AM) I never said DeAza will flame out. I said (implied) that there's more of a chance that he will than Bourn will. Bourn has put up consistent numbers over a longer period of time. Why is that so difficult to understand? I understand that you listed Fydritch in the same breath as De Aza immediately after you went on your "MUST ACQUIRE BOURN" rampage(in fact, all but one player you mentioned were pitchers). The money doesnt make sense right now, De Aza is a similar, cheaper, younger player. Why is THAT so hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Lamar Johnson 23 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) IMO a 1 year/$4 million offer to AJ is insulting, and sends a bad message as to how some players are "taken care of" by ownership. Eh, he's been taken care of by the Sox more than any other team was willing to do. AJP owes a lot to the Sox. They simply consider him a bad investment at this point and I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 10:26 AM) Last year, Michael Bourn was a 6.4 WAR and De Aza was a 2.7. He's a much better player, but given the Sox payroll contraints, I don't know if that would be money well spent. 2011: -6.4 fielding, 13.1 baserunning, 4.1 WAR 2012: 22.4 fielding, 6.6 baserunning, 6.4 WAR The difference between the WARs is 2.3, which is mirrored perfectly by the difference between those fielding and baserunning runs (23.3), which are also two of the greatest and less predictable areas of a players game, which are also the two areas that typically break down quickly. He showed more power last year and an increased walk rate, which are good signs for the future, but any team giving Bourn more than 3 years is being incredibly irresponsible. Something I'm surprised hasn't been touched on his his profciency in missing the ball with his bat - 20.2% for his career. (and, as has been alluded to, great player, not a fit for the Sox) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 10:35 AM) Eh, he's been taken care of by the Sox more than any other team was willing to do. AJP owes a lot to the Sox. They simply consider him a bad investment at this point and I agree. The White Sox are as loyal if not the most loyal team in baseball. This is why guys piss and moan so much when they are let go (Fisk, Dye, Ordonez) and in some cases are forced to leave (Buerhle, AJ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 02:23 AM) According to Phil Rogers, the Sox are offering AJ one year $4 million. They obviously don't particularly care if he comes back. From my understanding there is some reason to doubt this offer is true. But, if it is it most likely is just a starting point. If you gave Jake Peavy the kind of money he got for basically one good year with tghe Sox then I would not argue that AJ deserves a raise. I am thinking more like $6M - $8M a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) From my understanding there is some reason to doubt this offer is true. But, if it is it most likely is just a starting point. If you gave Jake Peavy the kind of money he got for basically one good year with tghe Sox then I would not argue that AJ deserves a raise. I am thinking more like $6M - $8M a year It is the starting point. It is the ending point. They won't negotiate. If he wants to come back, he can; if not, thanks for the memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Since when do we pay attention to Phil Rogers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 05:02 PM) It is the starting point. It is the ending point. They won't negotiate. If he wants to come back, he can; if not, thanks for the memories. I think there is enough concern with Flowers ability to produce that there is serious consideration being given to bringing him back. He wil most likley go to another team thouigh such as the Rangers, who will give him more money, but any team that will pay him what he wants and the Sox won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:01 PM) Since when do we pay attention to Phil Rogers? Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 The White Sox don't owe AJ a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) It is the starting point. It is the ending point. They won't negotiate. If he wants to come back, he can; if not, thanks for the memories. Well thank you Rick Hahn for sharing this information with us. Oh wait....your not Rick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) Good point! Exactly which is why Im not buying this at all. I've heard nothing of this offer anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) Exactly which is why Im not buying this at all. I've heard nothing of this offer anywhere else. It makes sense. If it were a decent offer, he probably would have already signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien If Rangers offer AJ Pierzynski a 2-year deal, don't see how he doesn't sign it. White Sox fans, the end could be near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien If Rangers offer AJ Pierzynski a 2-year deal, don't see how he doesn't sign it. White Sox fans, the end could be near. Chuck must be reading our posts Edited December 19, 2012 by elrockinMT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Chuck Garfien sounds like owns Mayan calendars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionrulZ Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Eh, he's been taken care of by the Sox more than any other team was willing to do. AJP owes a lot to the Sox. They simply consider him a bad investment at this point and I agree. Not a bad investment because A) he's a fan favorite, and B) He's a LOT better than any catcher we have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 06:56 PM) Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien If Rangers offer AJ Pierzynski a 2-year deal, don't see how he doesn't sign it. White Sox fans, the end could be near. It does appear that with the Rangers needs and the fact the Sox don't want to spend the money for FA AJP, coupled with their desire to play Flowers, Te Rangers are the most likely destination for AJ. They may also be after Swisher. I am guessing they can afford both and will be willing to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 19, 2012 -> 12:07 PM) Well thank you Rick Hahn for sharing this information with us. Oh wait....your not Rick. Yes I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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