Connecticut school shooting

[caulfield12]

Now Sidney Blumenthal (CT Senator) is saying that the Bushmaster 223 WAS used as part of the attack...

 

Basically, he described it as a modified M-16, essentially.

 

Also story coming out how one of the young teachers (Vicky or Vickie Soto) saved almost all of her students, whose classroom was located near the front of the school....but that they all saw her shot down right in front of them and had to run past the gunman while their beloved teacher was trying to distract him.

 

 

I will tell you this, if this continues??? In 20 years we will be waiting 90 minutes to get into a church; 90 minutes to get into a movie theatre, 90 minutes to enter a hospital, it'll take 5 hours to get on a plane by the time you arrive at the airport; 90 minutes to get into the doors of a sports event. There will be so much security it will make your head spin.

Greg, I'd say this won't change at all.

 

Even with metal detectors at all of these places, it wouldn't prevent something like this from happening. When someone is fully armed and threatening, there's not very much you can do to stop someone, unless you're going to quadruple the number of security guards at public places around the country.

 

And when someone who's familiar to the people in a public place comes there, it's even harder to determine if something is REALLY wrong RIGHT AWAY when something can be done to prevent his/her entrance and access to children.

 

 

Information coming out that the suspect tried to buy a gun on Tuesday (but had an issue with the paperwork), apparently.

Also, this whole idea of NOT SAYING or REPEATING the gunman's name, that's not going to work. And CNN just said that they actually had to use it, although some of their commentators have been arguing the media embargoing names in such a situation would actually do anything productive in the future.

Edited December 15, 2012 by caulfield12

[Reddy]

Now Sidney Blumenthal (CT Senator) is saying that the Bushmaster 223 WAS used as part of the attack...

 

Basically, he described it as a modified M-16, essentially.

 

Also story coming out how one of the young teachers (Vicky or Vickie Soto) saved almost all of her students, whose classroom was located near the front of the school....but that they all saw her shot down right in front of them and had to run past the gunman while their beloved teacher was trying to distract him.

wow on every level

[BigEdWalsh]

Yes Greg. Had this kid gone to a Catholic school, God would have magically cured him of his mental illness and none of this would have happened.

 

Seriously dude, my vision of you is a 73 year old man who never got past 6th grade and worked on a farm for 54 years of his life. You are so ignorant it's astounding.

Nice. Isn't personally insulting a fellow poster sort of against Soxtalk policies?

Edited December 15, 2012 by BigEdWalsh

[Reddy]

Nice. Isn't personally insulting a fellow poster sort of against Soxtalk policies?

in this scenario it's called for.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Nice. Isn't personally insulting a fellow poster sort of against Soxtalk policies?

 

lol. greg deserved that one. I know he means well. But some of the crap he says when one of these things happens is mind-boggling. This is worse than when he said somebody in the movie theater should've rose up and stopped james holmes. Glock, rifle and shotgun be damned.

[caulfield12]

Another question that's going to keep coming up is why the heck a seemingly normal or nondescript teacher's aide would have any reason to possess a Bushmaster 223 semi-automatic assault rifle??

 

 

The principal who was killed recently oversaw the school's security system changing to one where everyone had to be buzzed through...she had 2 kids of her own, and 3 step-children.

 

Also, the school psychologist, who logically was also located in the administrative offices closest to the front entrance.

 

 

School shooter already had some type of altercation at the school earlier in the week.

 

 

 

 

 

[BigEdWalsh]

lol. greg deserved that one. I know he means well. But some of the crap he says when one of these things happens is mind-boggling. This is worse than when he said somebody in the movie theater should've rose up and stopped james holmes. Glock, rifle and shotgun be damned.

LOL! I don't think it was worse than that one. I know especially in this forum and with a topic like this it can get heated and people will have varying opinions but c'mon flat out insulting someone's intelligence is uncalled for.

[Reddy]

LOL! I don't think it was worse than that one. I know especially in this forum and with a topic like this it can get heated and people will have varying opinions but c'mon flat out insulting someone's intelligence is uncalled for.

but... it's greg...

[ptatc]

as a hunter i've got a question - when is a semi-automatic rifle useful in a hunting scenario? the moment you fire, unless your aim was on, that game is bounding off through the woods, leaving you plenty of time to reload, no?

I hunt mostly pheasant, quail, ducks and such, so there is no time to reload. However, I personally use a double barrel so I do not have a semi automatic.

[Reddy]

I hunt mostly pheasant, quail, ducks and such, so there is no time to reload. However, I personally use a double barrel so I do not have a semi automatic.

this is my point though, after than FIRST shot isn't the likelihood you hit your target close to nil unless you're an expert marksman? (if i'm wrong you can let me know too, i'm not all that experienced with hunting. shooting yes, but hunting no)

[ptatc]

this is my point though, after than FIRST shot isn't the likelihood you hit your target close to nil unless you're an expert marksman? (if i'm wrong you can let me know too, i'm not all that experienced with hunting. shooting yes, but hunting no)

No, you have the time to take the three shots. Depending on the choke set on the shotgun you can have it set for wider or narrow shot pattern. With the narrow shot pattern you can hit the bird from 100 yards. Again, the shotgun has a limit of three so it's not the semi-auto handgun with a 15 round clip. Those are intended for shooting ranges and are the most common in violent crimes. I don't have handguns just for that reason.

[EvilMonkey]

sem·i·au·to·mat·ic

[ sèmmee àwtə máttik ]

 

1. reloading automatically: automatically ejecting a spent shell from a weapon's chamber and replacing it with another round each time the weapon is fired

2. partially automated: operated partly automatically and partly manually

3. semiautomatic weapon: a weapon that is semiautomatic. One trigger pull, one shot

 

NOT a machine gun. NOT an automatic weapon. MOST pistols and rifles sold are semi-automatic. Identifying guns with that phrase is meant only to instill fear or cause confusion with people that don't know the difference.

[Jake]

sem·i·au·to·mat·ic

[ sèmmee àwtə máttik ]

 

1. reloading automatically: automatically ejecting a spent shell from a weapon's chamber and replacing it with another round each time the weapon is fired

2. partially automated: operated partly automatically and partly manually

3. semiautomatic weapon: a weapon that is semiautomatic. One trigger pull, one shot

 

NOT a machine gun. NOT an automatic weapon. MOST pistols and rifles sold are semi-automatic. Identifying guns with that phrase is meant only to instill fear or cause confusion with people that don't know the difference.

 

I do get irritated with people acting like a semi-automatic is the same thing as an automatic. They are very different. However, the semi-automatic is still very lethal in terms of how easy it is to fire a shot.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I'm at a loss for words...just so f***ing tragic and so unnecessary.

[DukeNukeEm]

Oh give me a f***ing break. Unless you live in the worst areas of Chicago, you have the exact same worries as any other city in this country. And not only is this issue specific to certain areas, it's also highly highly-gang related, so making guns easier to attain would be by far the dumbest thing we could do.

 

Do you live in one of these areas?

 

I was a victim in Lincoln Park. Got roughed up a little bit and had to give up my bag to get away (luckily escaped with my wallet). I'm hardly alone, the officers I talked to about it say they've been really busy with those kinds of attacks in their precinct.

 

I agree. You have about the same odds of winning the powerball as you do of people busting into your house with guns ablazing, especially if you're not in a gang or a member of organized crime. Out on the street in Chicago, you can get shot at any moment, but it is very rare someone needs to "protect" their home from armed intruders.

 

For one, if you're in the midst of a home invasion you have absolutely no time to try and analyze the situation. They could be in there just looking for s*** to steal but if you startle them or get a good look at them there's no guarantee they wont severely harm you. People deserve every right in the world to defend their property and their family when they are being targeted in their home. At the very least the presence of firearms within the home serves as a deterrent to burglary and the violence that can easily ensue if a homeowner confronts burglars.

 

And the point I was really trying to make is that gun control enthusiasts absolutely love to point out statistics about Japan, Europe, China... whatever other country they can with tight gun control and low firearm deaths. But when it comes to looking at the same statistics across our own country, they'll make any excuse they can about why cities who violate 2nd amendment rights also suffer from the most violent crime.

[DukeNukeEm]

Another question that's going to keep coming up is why the heck a seemingly normal or nondescript teacher's aide would have any reason to possess a Bushmaster 223 semi-automatic assault rifle??

 

 

The principal who was killed recently oversaw the school's security system changing to one where everyone had to be buzzed through...she had 2 kids of her own, and 3 step-children.

 

Also, the school psychologist, who logically was also located in the administrative offices closest to the front entrance.

 

 

School shooter already had some type of altercation at the school earlier in the week.

He didn't even use the AR. It was found in the trunk.

 

Almost never are these massacres carried out with full-auto weapons (less than 1% of firearm deaths in the US are the result of full-auto weapons). This is because the lower receiver for an AR with automatic firing capabilities is like $10,000 and requires lots of practice and training to effectively and accurately fire.

[StrangeSox]

I do get irritated with people acting like a semi-automatic is the same thing as an automatic. They are very different. However, the semi-automatic is still very lethal in terms of how easy it is to fire a shot.

 

In untrained hands its probably more lethal than a fully automatic anyway.

[caulfield12]

He didn't even use the AR. It was found in the trunk.

 

Almost never are these massacres carried out with full-auto weapons (less than 1% of firearm deaths in the US are the result of full-auto weapons). This is because the lower receiver for an AR with automatic firing capabilities is like $10,000 and requires lots of practice and training to effectively and accurately fire.

 

 

This story has changed 50 times already.

 

Authorities found three guns next to Lanza's body in one of the classrooms, a law enforcement source told CNN. All three -- a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer -- were owned by Lanza's mother, the source said.source, www.cnn.com

 

 

The most recent CNN reporting was that there were 3 guns found inside the school. They wouldn't disclose which one he used to commit suicide with.

 

It's possible that he had OTHER guns inside of his mom's car that he drove to the school and parked (and left inside the trunk)...which weren't used directly in the attack. That might be part of the confusion.

Edited December 15, 2012 by caulfield12

[mr_genius]

So I own a gun in Chicago to protect my family from others that clearly have guns, am I wrong?

 

nope

[Jake]

I was a victim in Lincoln Park. Got roughed up a little bit and had to give up my bag to get away (luckily escaped with my wallet). I'm hardly alone, the officers I talked to about it say they've been really busy with those kinds of attacks in their precinct.

 

 

 

For one, if you're in the midst of a home invasion you have absolutely no time to try and analyze the situation. They could be in there just looking for s*** to steal but if you startle them or get a good look at them there's no guarantee they wont severely harm you. People deserve every right in the world to defend their property and their family when they are being targeted in their home. At the very least the presence of firearms within the home serves as a deterrent to burglary and the violence that can easily ensue if a homeowner confronts burglars.

 

And the point I was really trying to make is that gun control enthusiasts absolutely love to point out statistics about Japan, Europe, China... whatever other country they can with tight gun control and low firearm deaths. But when it comes to looking at the same statistics across our own country, they'll make any excuse they can about why cities who violate 2nd amendment rights also suffer from the most violent crime.

 

 

Gun restrictions imposed as a response to high crime rates do not mean that the gun restrictions have failed or made them worse. I tend to think that a city or state having restrictions doesn't do much since you still can have an influx of guns coming in from just outside those boundaries where there is a little ability for a city/state to enforce their laws. Federal laws are necessary if you actually want there to be fewer guns. It's too easy for me to come from my hometown in Central IL with all of my guns and sell them to some guy in Chicago. Or someone to come from Indiana and do the same thing.

 

And the 2nd amendment doesn't say what kinds of guns we're free to have (though I can infer that muzzleloaders were likely about it) and to what extent we could have them. It doesn't tell me if I can have as many as I want, if I can carry it in public, if it can be automatic, etc. Let's not say these laws violate the second amendment, let's just say they restrict gun ownership.

[EvilMonkey]

This story has changed 50 times already.

 

Authorities found three guns next to Lanza's body in one of the classrooms, a law enforcement source told CNN. All three -- a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer -- were owned by Lanza's mother, the source said.source, www.cnn.com

 

 

The most recent CNN reporting was that there were 3 guns found inside the school. They wouldn't disclose which one he used to commit suicide with.

 

It's possible that he had OTHER guns inside of his mom's car that he drove to the school and parked (and left inside the trunk)...which weren't used directly in the attack. That might be part of the confusion.

Part of the confusion is the media's rush to report to satisfy the public's hunger for information. They just report whatever they hear as fast as they hear it. it was reported at one time he used a machine gun, 2 pistol, 2 pistols and a rifle, then the rifle was in the trunk. probably take weeks until we get the actual story, actual gun(s) used, amount of shots, etc. Then we can hear all the wonderful new laws everyone wants to pass that would have prevented this.

[StrangeSox]

Part of the confusion is the media's rush to report to satisfy the public's hunger for information. They just report whatever they hear as fast as they hear it. it was reported at one time he used a machine gun, 2 pistol, 2 pistols and a rifle, then the rifle was in the trunk. probably take weeks until we get the actual story, actual gun(s) used, amount of shots, etc. Then we can hear all the wonderful new laws everyone wants to pass that would have prevented this.

we haven't had any new laws after the last several dozen gun-fueled massacres, though maybe the targeting of such young children will actually change that.

[caulfield12]

Part of the confusion is the media's rush to report to satisfy the public's hunger for information. They just report whatever they hear as fast as they hear it. it was reported at one time he used a machine gun, 2 pistol, 2 pistols and a rifle, then the rifle was in the trunk. probably take weeks until we get the actual story, actual gun(s) used, amount of shots, etc. Then we can hear all the wonderful new laws everyone wants to pass that would have prevented this.

 

 

If it comes out he had a history of playing violent video games, then those will be blamed.

 

Mental health systems, budget cutbacks, Autism/Asberger's, that's getting a lot of blame already. Now anyone who has autism will be suspected of possibly being a violent threat, not unlike all Muslims after 9/11.

 

The school security system, since inevitably there will be a ton of lawsuits just because that's the easiest target...and despite the fact that they just changed the procedure to where every visitor had to be buzzed into the building.

 

Dysfunction and polarization in our country and government, not allowing both sides to meet in the middle and compromise on something that makes sense to both sides.

 

Gun dealers/background checks will be blamed. The CNN reporter said he walked into a Colorado gun shop (he was covering Aurora/James Holmes) and was able to buy an automatic rifle for $800 on the spot with just a driver's license.

 

Some will argue that the price of bullets should be exponentially increased, which will create a black market.

 

Some will argue that above and beyond not having a past criminal record, there should be additional testing, like a psychological profile, Rorschach, a couple of other profiling tests (one starts with Minnesota, can't remember the rest of it off the top of my head, etc.

 

Youth apathy/selfishness/self-centeredness.

[EvilMonkey]

Gun dealers/background checks will be blamed. The CNN reporter said he walked into a Colorado gun shop (he was covering Aurora/James Holmes) and was able to buy an automatic rifle for $800 on the spot with just a driver's license.

Di they actually say this? because I read a piece that he TRIED to buy a gun and was turned down because his background check flagged him for something.

[caulfield12]

we haven't had any new laws after the last several dozen gun-fueled massacres, though maybe the targeting of such young children will actually change that.

 

 

One thing you can GUARANTEE.

 

If the son or daughter of a member of the House or Senate was killed inside of a school by a gunman, and they were a Republican member, things definitely might change to the point where there would be some political cover from the NRA.

 

Obviously, I would never wish that on anyone...but you start thinking of scenarios after all the school shootings during the Clinton years, especially Columbine, the movie about it by Moore, more recently the Ft. Hood, Virginia Tech and Aurora shootings.

 

Definitely, when the victims are mostly kindergarten and 1st grade students, that's a whole different animal. People perceive high school students and university students differently. Young children, that age, completely innocent and defenseless, being gunned down in cold blood....that's something that is MUCH MUCH more difficult to shrug off for any parent in this country (especially), this one is definitely touching a different nerve.

 

Probably the most emotional for a lot of reporters for any event since 9/11 in the US.