Connecticut school shooting

[Quin]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-tha...humanity-this-y

 

I saw this posted on another forum and thought it was appropriate after what happened yesterday.

 

Thank you for this.

[BigEdWalsh]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-tha...humanity-this-y

 

I saw this posted on another forum and thought it was appropriate after what happened yesterday.

[witesoxfan]

I had never heard of Caine's Arcade. It's been a while since I shed tears of joy.

[Dick Allen]

I was a victim in Lincoln Park. Got roughed up a little bit and had to give up my bag to get away (luckily escaped with my wallet). I'm hardly alone, the officers I talked to about it say they've been really busy with those kinds of attacks in their precinct.

 

 

 

For one, if you're in the midst of a home invasion you have absolutely no time to try and analyze the situation. They could be in there just looking for s*** to steal but if you startle them or get a good look at them there's no guarantee they wont severely harm you. People deserve every right in the world to defend their property and their family when they are being targeted in their home. At the very least the presence of firearms within the home serves as a deterrent to burglary and the violence that can easily ensue if a homeowner confronts burglars.

 

And the point I was really trying to make is that gun control enthusiasts absolutely love to point out statistics about Japan, Europe, China... whatever other country they can with tight gun control and low firearm deaths. But when it comes to looking at the same statistics across our own country, they'll make any excuse they can about why cities who violate 2nd amendment rights also suffer from the most violent crime.

 

Too many things can go wrong for the against all odds,chance you have armed people in your home while you are there. The guns used in this tragedy were purchased with the intent of protecting a home.

 

[southsider2k5]

I believe the fact that something like this happened is definitive proof that there is no God.

 

You've never read the bible then. Bad things happen to good people.

[3E8]

Explain to me why every state that allows concealed carry or open carry have a much lower death rate due to guns than most other places do? This debate can go on forever. Hard fact is even with all this, they won't be able to take away the guns. Its pointless to keep going on and on.

 

Also, just because you can carry openly or concealed doesn't mean people will. Its your choice to do so.

 

 

Ok stating EVERY state is a bit over board. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_w...ate-per-100-000

 

Just read something interesting on that link. 57% of ALL deaths by firearms are Suicide. USGO 2010 Did not know that.

I used your link of firearm death rate by state (data is from 2002), then looked at concealed carry laws by state from 2002 (link). Of the 20 states with the highest death rate, 18 of those states allowed unrestricted or shall-issue concealed carry. Those types of concealed carry states had the six highest death rates.

 

On the other hand, states that did not allow concealed carry or only allowed concealed carry under may-issue permit had 14 of the 22 lowest firearm death rates. Five of the no concealed carry states were among the 21 lowest death rates.

[MexSoxFan#1]

My wife told me as we were watching CNN last night that she wouldn't ever want to live in the US...

 

This coming from someone who lives in Mexico, (though I have to add that we live in a city with no drug violence). I just thought it sounded weird...

 

Just so depressing.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Rather than ask for you to be banned, I'll say, gee thanks for the intelligent response. I had a scholarship to Northwestern offered to me. I was accepted to two Ivy League schools. Yes I am really a stupid person. I said I might have not explained my position well enough, but rather than discuss it, you go into bombadeer Greg mode. Nice.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

I don't even remember what I said on the Holmes case. This case, I'm trying to point out that those who believe there is a God believe there is justice not only on earth but in the afterlife. If more people feared that, we might be better off. I can't respond to anybody because nobody said what they didn't like about my post, just that I am a dumbs***. I am not dumb. My test scores were off the charts and I was worthy of Northwestern.

 

lol. gmab, greg. You remember what you said. you essentially called everybody in that theater that didn't die a coward because nobody took it upon themselves to stop holmes. and that was f***ing pathetic. don't make me google. and you also called out the cops for not shooting holmes after he had already surrendered. the god crap you're talking about in this case gives reason for sqwert to question your intelligence.

[caulfield12]

The aunt also couldn't understand the mass shooting.

 

"Why these kids, why these innocent little kids? That just still baffles me," she said. "I can't understand why."

 

She doesn't believe gun laws should be changed. "It's the person who does the killing, not the gun," she said. "I thank God every day that my kids have faith and know right from wrong -- and I'm not saying her kids didn't -- but you have got to give your kids roots."

www.cnn.com

 

 

But just to play Devil's Advocate, what are the gun homicide rates in countries that do permit guns where there are fewer people who believe in God? I don't know what the official rate in the US is (those professing faith or belief in God/going to church/mosque/synagogue/temple regularly), always thought it was right around 65-75% or so, something like that.

 

Perhaps, for some, it's a logical jump to assume if someone doesn't fear God or "eternal punishment" that they would be more likely to commit an act like this, but there's got to be something more to it than that. Way too simplified.

 

Morgan Freeman's explanation is just as spot-on. We live in a celebrified culture where bigger is better....fame is more important than wealth....where there's a rush to do anything to put yourself in the public eye. Growing up mostly in the 1980's, the idea that someone might deliberately make a sex tape as a "marketing strategy" to launch their careers was pretty much unfathomable. Now, you have to come up with someone even more outlandish, because of the sense of "been there, done that." Look at explosion in reality shows, for another example.

 

Combined with the proliferation of violent movies and video games...these type of things tend to feed upon themselves, with everyone now wondering what will come next.

 

Some will argue that, on an obviously much larger scale, 9/11 was the ultimate celebrity grab for fame by Al-queda....look how much money poured into their coffers from around the world for the following decade in sympathy of their crusade against the US, "imperialism" and "secularist values." Osama bin Laden became the most famous name in the world, pretty much.

 

However, the fact that he took his own life makes you wonder if he really wanted fame in the same way that James Holmes, John Hinckley, Oswald, James Earl Ray, Jack Ruby, Sirhan Sirhan....might have courted. All of them surrendered and were taken into police custody.

 

And Morgan Freeman's right about something else. I can remember to this day the names of the Columbine shooters, but none of the victims.

Edited December 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Now it's confusing again.

 

Was the "long rifle" a hunting rifle we don't know about, or was it the Bushmaster semi-automatic assault rifle?

 

Because the cries to get assault guns off the streets definitely won't die down as a result of this.

 

It's even scarier to think he was lining those kids up and executing them with a rifle....methodically. Just can't imagine it.

So, for everyone asking, or everyone who has read the "He left the semi-auto assault rifle in the car" version, here is the official statement from the medical examiner.

Carver told reporters that the victims had all been identified and their bodies released. In what appeared to be an uncomfortable moment for Carver, he said all of the victims he had examined so far had all been shot by a Bushmaster .223 caliber assault rifle, one of at least two weapons 20-year old Adam Lanza used to commit one of the deadliest mass shootings in U.S. history.

Based on the statements from the medical examiner doing the autopsies...the weapon he used was the semi-automatic assault-style rifle Bushmaster rifle.

 

He therefore had other weapons with him, and perhaps used them on people that this medical examiner did not see, but that's pretty definitive. The assault-style-rifle was the weapon of choice.

[greg775]

Bringing up religion after this happened? Why? What the heck does religion have to do with what happened yesterday? No Christian has ever gone on a shooting rampage? I went to public schools my entire life. Does that mean I'm much more susceptible to going postal? Your logic is garbage and doesn't deserve to be brought up. Next you'll be telling us this tragedy happened because gay people can get married in certain states and it's God's way to punish us.

I'm not going to spend 10 minutes finding the Huckabee segment on CNN. If you want to listen to what Huckabee said, he was the person I was trying to quote and agree with his position. I didn't think my point was garbage. I'm saying our kids today are raised that there is no God and told God is a bad thing. No God-fearing person would do this. Some of us believe that the scumbag murderer is rotting in hell.

 

My wife told me as we were watching CNN last night that she wouldn't ever want to live in the US...

 

This coming from someone who lives in Mexico, (though I have to add that we live in a city with no drug violence). I just thought it sounded weird...

 

Just so depressing.

That says a lot. The fact your wife would never want to live in our country proves we in the US are becoming a bunch of killers. It's amazing but the USA is a nation full of killers. It's a very very dangerous lousy place to live right now. And it could get worse the next 20 years. These incidents are happening all the time and we have a generation of kids being raised on all kinds of drugs like Ritalin (sp). We is in trouble, baby.

 

lol. gmab, greg. You remember what you said. you essentially called everybody in that theater that didn't die a coward because nobody took it upon themselves to stop holmes. and that was f***ing pathetic. don't make me google. and you also called out the cops for not shooting holmes after he had already surrendered. the god crap you're talking about in this case gives reason for sqwert to question your intelligence.

 

Find my posts and I'll respond to them. I can't remember what I said but I seriously doubt you have characterized my response correctly. I think I said I wanted Holmes to fear the possibility of getting raped in prison and I got hit hard for that on here. I didn't condone the rape I said I was all for him fearing the possibility of rape.

Sometimes I think you guys don't visualize exactly what happened in both cases. We are talking about a 20-year-old madman walking up to little kids and executing them one by one. And reloading while some kids awaited their own murder?????? Little kids!!!!! The horror of it is utterly amazing. That this could happen in our country again is an embarrassment to this nation. Something must be done. May the killer rot in hell forevermore.

 

I was at a basketball game tonight and saw moms and dads with their little kids, the age of those kids murdered. It breaks my spirit.

Edited December 16, 2012 by greg775

[Quin]

Did greg just glaze over my post about how the lack of strict religion on this generation really has nothing to do with this?

[greg775]

Did greg just glaze over my post about how the lack of strict religion on this generation really has nothing to do with this?

 

I didn't see it. I'll go look for it.

[greg775]

Greg, I'm an atheist that grew up in this generation. I'm not going to go do heinous acts. Not because I don't fear God, I'm really not afraid of most things (that can harm me personally, I'm deathly afraid of loved ones being in pain). I don't do it because I'm a human being and I don't to put others through pain and frustration. God isn't my motivation for not doing things, love and understanding is.

 

Wow. Just...what the f*** man. What the f***.

I'm just saying in general it would help to have a less p.c. society. Our last two mass murderers here are under 25. Would it hurt to have these guys consider there might be a God?

Do you at least recognize the way your generation was raised -- the fact you guys were never wrong; the fact you guys always had to be catered to; the fact you guys were raised to be buddies with your parents might have been wrong? What's wrong with a little God in society?

And there are always exceptions. You are probably the nicest guy and best person in the world, but I'm saying the principles of being a God-loving person wouldn't hurt some of these nutjobs. They might choose to be atheist, they might not. None of them are given the chance to decide with them being taught that while a minority of people believe in God, we can't pray in school, we can't even recognize that God thing might exist.

 

I don't know if Morgan Freeman actually said this, but if he did, I swear he should be knighted:

 

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

 

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

 

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

 

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

 

Blaming the media is an old crutch. Cmon, Morgan. People want to know what happened and part of the story is the scumbag killer. I do agree there's a bit too much coverage of the killer himself. But we have to learn the facts of the case, we have to. Blaming the media is pretty week, Morgan.

Edited December 16, 2012 by greg775

[Jake]

I think the developed world's most religious society doesn't need more religion to stop it from continuing to have more mass shootings than the rest of the world combined.

[Quin]

I'm just saying in general it would help to have a less p.c. society. Our last two mass murderers here are under 25. Would it hurt to have these guys consider there might be a God?

Do you at least recognize the way your generation was raised -- the fact you guys were never wrong; the fact you guys always had to be catered to; the fact you guys were raised to be buddies with your parents might have been wrong? What's wrong with a little God in society?

And there are always exceptions. You are probably the nicest guy and best person in the world, but I'm saying the principles of being a God-loving person wouldn't hurt some of these nutjobs. They might choose to be atheist, they might not. None of them are given the chance to decide with them being taught that while a minority of people believe in God, we can't pray in school, we can't even recognize that God thing might exist.

 

 

 

Blaming the media is an old crutch. Cmon, Morgan. People want to know what happened and part of the story is the scumbag killer. I do agree there's a bit too much coverage of the killer himself. But we have to learn the facts of the case, we have to. Blaming the media is pretty week, Morgan.

 

No, we were definitely raised "softer" but we were wrong at points. Also, we've lived in more "fearful" world than others in recent memory. 9/11 changed a lot and we grew up in the middle of that fear. Kind of like the Cold War, but in this case something actually happened. However, being friends with my parents is something I cherish. Yeah, we all got trophies in little league but that stopped at like, age 10.

 

What's wrong is that we don't really need it.

 

And LOL. A majority believe in God greg. Holy s*** is that an inaccurate statement. Sure, there are more agnostics/atheists/theists now, but a majority are Christian. People can recognize it. They can pray. They just can't make others be included in it because we're moving away from being Christian-centric. People are given choices on what they want to be Greg. They have Church for a reason.

 

And to act like no Christian person has ever tried to carry out something in the name of God...it's a two way street.

[kev211]

Greg sorry to burst your bubble but the majority of violence in the world right now and in the entire history of the world is BECAUSE of religion.

[Quin]

Greg sorry to burst your bubble but the majority of violence in the world right now and in the entire history of the world is BECAUSE of religion.

 

It's because people feared that God wouldn't like them if they didn't make others fear God. So they killed them if they didn't fear their God.

[greg775]

No, we were definitely raised "softer" but we were wrong at points. Also, we've lived in more "fearful" world than others in recent memory. 9/11 changed a lot and we grew up in the middle of that fear. Kind of like the Cold War, but in this case something actually happened. However, being friends with my parents is something I cherish. Yeah, we all got trophies in little league but that stopped at like, age 10.

 

What's wrong is that we don't really need it.

 

And LOL. A majority believe in God greg. Holy s*** is that an inaccurate statement. Sure, there are more agnostics/atheists/theists now, but a majority are Christian. People can recognize it. They can pray. They just can't make others be included in it because we're moving away from being Christian-centric. People are given choices on what they want to be Greg. They have Church for a reason.

 

And to act like no Christian person has ever tried to carry out something in the name of God...it's a two way street.

 

How many of your friends have ADD? How many have been drugged their whole lives by your parents? Both generations are at fault here. It's only getting worse.

[Quin]

How many of your friends have ADD? How many have been drugged their whole lives by your parents? Both generations are at fault here. It's only getting worse.

 

Like...three...have ADD.

 

Try again.

 

It appears worse because we have 24 hour news and we're now an instant society so we jump on any bad story (obviously this aside, this is bad in any era). It's like the whole rainbow party scare from a few years ago. Which was false. But it got in people's heads.

[greg775]

Like...three...have ADD.

 

Try again.

 

It appears worse because we have 24 hour news and we're now an instant society so we jump on any bad story (obviously this aside, this is bad in any era). It's like the whole rainbow party scare from a few years ago. Which was false. But it got in people's heads.

 

How many were put on drugs by your parents, though? I think we live in a very very twisted world. I hope somehow it can turn around.

[caulfield12]

I think this article basically encapsulates Greg's basic position...

 

 

RSEDITOR OF REDSTATEComing Together

By: Erick Erickson (Diary) | December 14th, 2012 at 04:37 PM | 335

 

At times like this we are told we must “come together.”

 

When you think about, we don’t, as a nation, come together much any more except in tragedy.

 

We used to come together as a nation during the Olympics, when we rooted for Americans. But in recent years we are too often lectured about the jingoism in rooting for America.

 

We used to come together as we sent men and women in to space, but we can’t much afford to do that any more and we don’t.

 

When we come together for most sporting events, we find ourselves divided among friends among teams.

 

We come together as a nation every four years to inaugurate the President, but it is as bitter and divisive as every.

 

About the only time we ever come together as a nation anymore is when savage tragedy happens. When men fly planes into tall buildings or gun down children or shoot up a movie theater, we gather, pray, and cry.

 

It is not healthy for a nation that its only acts of coming together are acts of tragedy, or even charity stemming from tragedy.

 

Our nation once shared a God who we all prayed to. Increasingly, the loudest voices in the nation are hostile to that God and those who worship him. The conversation at times of evil is immediately drown out by political opportunists seeking to drive their agenda. The news channels meditate on the nature of gun violence and gun restrictions or what other restrictions or laws can ever be used.

 

We do that, in part, because in times of helplessness it makes us feel like we can do something.

 

But we can do nothing in the face of evil until we confront evil itself.

 

The tragedy unfolding today is not an act of the insane, but an act of evil. That evil may drive the shooter insane, but in focusing on the insanity we lose focus on the evil.

 

There is really real good and there is really real evil in the world. Each time I have written that here on this site a vocal group of secularists and atheists have loudly chimed in to ridicule me for doing so.

 

They’ll do so again. But in this small window America has a real moment to assess why it is that it is careening out of control morally and socially. In that small window, instead of discussing the politics or the laws, we should discuss the evil and the good and the God from whom we have, as a nation. drifted so far.

 

It is not healthy for a nation to only come together at times like this. It is not healthy for a nation to come together at tragedy so far removed from God.

[Quin]

How many were put on drugs by your parents, though? I think we live in a very very twisted world. I hope somehow it can turn around.

 

Like one.

 

You live in a very twisted world of your own creation.

[caulfield12]

The problem isn't medications.

 

50-60 years ago, we'd still be doing lobotomies frontal lobotomies on "hyper" girls.

 

The problem is that doctors and clinicians still don't have much control over patients, in terms of making assessments whether they are legitimate or credible threats to society.

 

It's still incredibly difficult to get someone involuntarily checked into psychiatric care.

 

For example, we heard that there was one altercation at the school already this week, on Tuesday, involving the shooter. Clearly, the brother knew something was seriously wrong.

 

On the other hand, we want to be a country of freedom/s. We don't want to have panels where doctors can decide who should or should not be taking medication...what the attendant penalties for someone who refuses to take prescribed medication due to difficult and often debilitating side effects should be, these are immensely complicated issues. Clearly, the first line of defense has to be the families and loved ones, but if there's a break in those bonds and relationships, there's no longer enough of a "safety net" to protect communities. There's much less sense of everyone in a neighborhood or community knowing each other than when I was growing up....now, it seems all the kids are staying at home and plugged into their electronic devices and the internet. There are no simplistic solutions here, no quick fixes.

Edited December 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Quin]

The problem isn't medications.

 

50-60 years ago, we'd still be doing lobotomies frontal lobotomies on "hyper" girls.

 

The problem is that doctors and clinicians still don't have much control over patients, in terms of making assessments whether they are legitimate or credible threats to society.

 

It's still incredibly difficult to get someone involuntarily checked into psychiatric care.

For example, we heard that there was one altercation at the school already this week, on Tuesday, involving the shooter. Clearly, the brother knew something was seriously wrong.

 

On the other hand, we want to be a country of freedom/s. We don't want to have panels where doctors can decide who should or should not be taking medication...what the attendant penalties for someone who refuses to take prescribed medication due to difficult and often debilitating side effects should be, these are immensely complicated issues. Clearly, the first line of defense has to be the families and loved ones, but if there's a break in those bonds and relationships, there's no longer enough of a "safety net" to protect communities. There's much less sense of everyone in a neighborhood or community knowing each other than when I was growing up....now, it seems all the kids are staying at home and plugged into their electronic devices and the internet. There are no simplistic solutions here, no quick fixes.

 

If someone shows signs of mental illness, handcuff them and send them to the psych ward.