Connecticut school shooting

[Texsox]

After 9/11, to make planes safer we banned liquid soap and nail files because they are too dangerous. But to make theaters, schools, shopping malls, and damn well every other public place safer is more guns? Really?

 

I just wish we could sweep away the bull s*** and have a national debate on what should, and what should not, be allowed.

 

The world has changed since the original Constitution was *changed* with the 2nd Amendment. We now have a very large standing army to protect us. We now have supermarkets with lots of meat. We have gone from weapons that could be reloaded and shot once every 60 or 90 seconds to shots per second. We've gone from a single round in the gun to large capacity clips. We've improved the accuracy from 25 yards to half a mile. Certainly the boys who wrote the changes that were approved in 1791 would have had different ideas based on today's facts about armies and weaponry.

 

Let's stop pretending that a gun is the same as a knife, bat, or pencil. Come back when you killed a deer with a baseball bat. A gun is one damn fine killing machine. They are incredible tools, with awesome capabilities. They are fun to shoot. But better than a Charles Atlas workout, they turn cowards into wanna be Rambos, they allow someone to extract violence from a distance. They can be used in moments, they don't take many steps like bombs or cyanide (couple emails I received showing how similar things are).

 

I've told the story before, I made the decision when my kids were small to not have a gun readily available in my home for protection. To be ready, it needs to be easily accessible, loaded, and probably without a safety. You'll only have seconds. That is a recipe for disaster. But my attitude was shaped when I was in H.S. A neighbor of my girlfriend shot himself with his parent's gun. They said all the things that parents say who do have guns around "we taught him to respect it","he knew how to safely handle it", "we went to the range all the time", it didn't seem depressed".

 

Now that my kids are older and mentally healthy, I keep a gun or two around. I don't need a M-16, I don't need high capacity clips, I don't need 10,000 rounds stored in a bunker.

[LittleHurt05]

Greg sorry to burst your bubble but the majority of violence in the world right now and in the entire history of the world is BECAUSE of religion.

 

If only those Al-Qaeda terrorists were religious and believed in a God, 9/11 would have never happened. Oh wait.

[Kyyle23]

I'm not going to spend 10 minutes finding the Huckabee segment on CNN. If you want to listen to what Huckabee said, he was the person I was trying to quote and agree with his position. I didn't think my point was garbage. I'm saying our kids today are raised that there is no God and told God is a bad thing. No God-fearing person would do this. Some of us believe that the scumbag murderer is rotting in hell.

 

 

You can keep repeating this, but it is untrue.

[EvilMonkey]

After 9/11, to make planes safer we banned liquid soap and nail files because they are too dangerous. But to make theaters, schools, shopping malls, and damn well every other public place safer is more guns? Really?

 

I just wish we could sweep away the bull s*** and have a national debate on what should, and what should not, be allowed.

 

The world has changed since the original Constitution was *changed* with the 2nd Amendment. We now have a very large standing army to protect us. We now have supermarkets with lots of meat. We have gone from weapons that could be reloaded and shot once every 60 or 90 seconds to shots per second. We've gone from a single round in the gun to large capacity clips. We've improved the accuracy from 25 yards to half a mile. Certainly the boys who wrote the changes that were approved in 1791 would have had different ideas based on today's facts about armies and weaponry.

 

Let's stop pretending that a gun is the same as a knife, bat, or pencil. Come back when you killed a deer with a baseball bat. A gun is one damn fine killing machine. They are incredible tools, with awesome capabilities. They are fun to shoot. But better than a Charles Atlas workout, they turn cowards into wanna be Rambos, they allow someone to extract violence from a distance. They can be used in moments, they don't take many steps like bombs or cyanide (couple emails I received showing how similar things are).

 

I've told the story before, I made the decision when my kids were small to not have a gun readily available in my home for protection. To be ready, it needs to be easily accessible, loaded, and probably without a safety. You'll only have seconds. That is a recipe for disaster. But my attitude was shaped when I was in H.S. A neighbor of my girlfriend shot himself with his parent's gun. They said all the things that parents say who do have guns around "we taught him to respect it","he knew how to safely handle it", "we went to the range all the time", it didn't seem depressed".

 

Now that my kids are older and mentally healthy, I keep a gun or two around. I don't need a M-16, I don't need high capacity clips, I don't need 10,000 rounds stored in a bunker.

Is the answer to make them safer take away MY guns? Seriously, because some people are f*cked in the head, do you think the solution is to stop ME from having a gun? And Tex, your suicide story would have happened anyway. He didn't just decide to do it because he had access to a gun. That is a whole different bag of issue.

[StrangeSox]

Yes, the answer is to restrict the availability and access to guns in general.

 

edit: I bet a lot of us have seen those ridiculous "Israelis arm their teachers!" .gifs floating around on facebook. Fine, if the Israelis have such desirable gun policies (never mind that their reasons for arming their teachers are radically different than random spree shootings), let's follow them. Want a firearm? You need to explicitly justify your need for one, and you need a license. You need to re-apply for that license every three years. The government will document and track every licensed gun owner. You are allowed to possess a very limited quantity of ammunition. Every single gun must be registered, along with every transaction. Want to own a handgun? Better have been a captain or lieutenant colonel in the army. Rifles are largely illegal. And this is a highly militarized society that's constantly on a nation-wide defensive war footing.

Edited December 16, 2012 by StrangeSox

[BigSqwert]

I'm not going to spend 10 minutes finding the Huckabee segment on CNN. If you want to listen to what Huckabee said, he was the person I was trying to quote and agree with his position. I didn't think my point was garbage. I'm saying our kids today are raised that there is no God and told God is a bad thing. No God-fearing person would do this. Some of us believe that the scumbag murderer is rotting in hell.

Hmm....person with mental health issues and more God. Sounds like a great idea. Perhaps he could have shot up a Planned Parenthood or some latinos standing in front of Home Depot looking for work instead.

[BigSqwert]

Holy s***

 

And no Greg, no amount of God in school helps stuff like this.

[Chicago White Sox]

Is the answer to make them safer take away MY guns? Seriously, because some people are f*cked in the head, do you think the solution is to stop ME from having a gun? And Tex, your suicide story would have happened anyway. He didn't just decide to do it because he had access to a gun. That is a whole different bag of issue.

I'd like to hear your honest opinion on gun policy.

 

We all know this guy suffered from mental illness. Every single person that does one of these cowardly attacks is either sick or just plain stupid. Unfortunately, it's going to be hard to identify all these people and even if you did there's nothing you can do them to guarantee they won't do something crazy.

 

What we can control is their ability to kill people in large quantities as best we can. What purpose does an assault rifle serve other than making some hillbilly feel powerful? It's not used for sport and it's not used for self-defense unless China decides to invade at some point. It's intended to be a killing machine and should not be allowed for purchase in this country. I don't even understand how they were ever legal in the first place. Banning them would be a small and simple way to possibly limit the amount of deaths in an attack like we saw this week. Obviously such a ban doesn't truly guarantee anyone safety, but I see no benefit to this country by allowing its citizens to purchase assault rifles. Do you disagree on this?

[southsider2k5]

And Morgan Freeman's right about something else. I can remember to this day the names of the Columbine shooters, but none of the victims.

 

Read Columbine by Dave Cullen.

[Reddy]

guys just go see the hobbit. it'll put it all in perspective.

 

Gandalf: "Saruman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check. That is not what I have found. I have found that it is the small things, every day deeds from ordinary folk, that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I am afraid. He gives me courage."

[Dick Allen]

Each one of those teachers, who probably made peanuts, but took bullets for those kids are far bigger heroes than anyone who plays a game for a living.

[Jake]

If there are two people shooting guns, how do I know which one I'm supposed to shoot at? How does the next guy know he's not supposed to shoot at me?

[Reddy]

If there are two people shooting guns, how do I know which one I'm supposed to shoot at? How does the next guy know he's not supposed to shoot at me?

+1

[southsideirish71]

As a republican I do not see any reason a normal citizen needs or should possess a semi automatic assault weapon. I can safely say that I am for a ban tomorrow on that class of weapon. With that being said bad guys will still get their hands on these types of weapons. Your local gang banger does not go to the local gun store with his foid card and buy a weapon. This will not eliminate gun violence and with Chicago as the example for restrictive gun laws it barely makes a dent. Pandora's box is open. I remember watching people coming into a courthouse seeing the metal detectors and throwing their contraband into the bushes. Drugs and weapons only to attempt to retrieve them later. There are lots of issues at play here. The family dynamics have changed. Parents want to be buddies with their children instead of parents. We don't take the time to invest in the family and it does cause issues with the final product. We spent quite a bit of time of delaying the fact that their on consequences to actions. Everyone is a winner and then later on in development we shock their system with consequences. We have no idea on what to do as a society with the mentally ill. We medicate, and unfortunately medication of any kind is a foreign substance with side effects that people don't want to go through. So they go off the wagon. And then we wait until there is an episode to re-act. How many parents have conversations with their kids to say. "that was a movie, those are actors and they will go home tonight after that shooting scene. In real life when a person gets killed you take them away and anything or everything that they would be. This is a video game. Those are pixels and memory on a computing system. When the person gets killed on the game the memory is reallocated and no one gets hurt because its video games. Itell my son everyday there is no reason for him to fight. We live in a "civilized" society. To be nice to everyone. To fight only as a complete last resort to protect yourself or your family.

 

Sorry for the ramble but there isn't one answer here. We need to take steps to address the multiple factors at play here.

[StrangeSox]

You can't point to single-city jurisdictions as examples of the impossibility of gun control. It needs to be a national policy.

[Texsox]

Is the answer to make them safer take away MY guns? Seriously, because some people are f*cked in the head, do you think the solution is to stop ME from having a gun? And Tex, your suicide story would have happened anyway. He didn't just decide to do it because he had access to a gun. That is a whole different bag of issue.

 

I'm not certain the suicide would have happened without a gun, but I will take your word for it. What I do know is with all those options, he selected a gun. Good choice, not many survive that attempt. But I do know that death by gun was at least one option he picked. What other options did he consider?

 

And no, taking away our guns isn't the solution.

 

We raised the drinking age and lowered the blood alcohol limit before someone is considered drunk driving. Now that hasn't stopped anyone from drunk driving or from 20 year olds from getting alcohol. Using the gun argument, we should eliminate those laws and allow anyone to drink and drive. There are plenty of responsible 17 year olds that could sit and have a couple drinks without any problems. But we decided that the answer to drunk driving was taking away their beer.

 

Currently the debate will not be what is best for the country, the debate will be based on how much money the gun industry is willing to spend. The NRA will send out a fundraising appeal and people will line up to donate.

 

I get it, if criminals are going to do it anyway, than why have the law? I'm just not certain if we would have any laws then.

[southsider2k5]

You can't point to single-city jurisdictions as examples of the impossibility of gun control. It needs to be a national policy.

 

I know it is off topic, but I find it fascinating how this is 180 degrees different of any drug discussion.

[Reddy]

I know it is off topic, but I find it fascinating how this is 180 degrees different of any drug discussion.

drugs don't kill 20 kids.

 

there's a bit of a difference

 

[EvilMonkey]

<!--quoteo(post=2737934:date=Dec 16, 2012 -> 07:58 AM:name=Alpha Dog)-->

<!--quotec-->Is the answer to make them safer take away MY guns? Seriously, because some people are f*cked in the head, do you think the solution is to stop ME from having a gun? And Tex, your suicide story would have happened anyway. He didn't just decide to do it because he had access to a gun. That is a whole different bag of issue.

I'd like to hear your honest opinion on gun policy.

 

We all know this guy suffered from mental illness. Every single person that does one of these cowardly attacks is either sick or just plain stupid. Unfortunately, it's going to be hard to identify all these people and even if you did there's nothing you can do them to guarantee they won't do something crazy.

 

What we can control is their ability to kill people in large quantities as best we can. What purpose does an assault rifle serve other than making some hillbilly feel powerful? It's not used for sport and it's not used for self-defense unless China decides to invade at some point. It's intended to be a killing machine and should not be allowed for purchase in this country. I don't even understand how they were ever legal in the first place. Banning them would be a small and simple way to possibly limit the amount of deaths in an attack like we saw this week. Obviously such a ban doesn't truly guarantee anyone safety, but I see no benefit to this country by allowing its citizens to purchase assault rifles. Do you disagree on this?

The bolded part is the issue. You have parents all over who know their kids are dangerous, know they are a threat to themselves and others, but what can they do? Can the parents have them committed? Forced therapy or drugs? You run into civil rights issues then. But I guarantee that his mom KNEW he was capable of this.

 

There is a slippery slope on everything. Start committing people with violent tendencies, then who decides who is violent or not? What would prevent some politicians or whoever from gaming the system and locking up people for other reasons, and justifying it with that? Same for guns. Most gun owners will tell you they have no issues with waiting periods, FOID cards, even restrictions on some high powered weapons. but they KNOW, and you know it too, that once any more restrictions get in place, it is just a foothold inviting more. next they start banning guns because the 'look' dangerous (assault weapons ban), or deciding that you do't need a 16 shot magazine, 10 is more than enough. OMG, he had a semi-automatic weapon! Bolt action has been out of style for a long time and is a pain in the ass. And on and on. Enforce the laws that exist. Lock up the people at gun shows that skirt the rules and sell under the table. Keep violent people in prison where they belong. get mental help to those that need it. You can't protect people from everything.

[StrangeSox]

The laws that exist are inadequate, though. Until he started shooting people, these guns were owned by a Law Abiding Citizen

[Jake]

It's not that we need no guns, period. But I am firmly against resisting ANY restriction just because there is a fear that restrictions will never stop.

[EvilMonkey]

It's not that we need no guns, period. But I am firmly against resisting ANY restriction just because there is a fear that restrictions will never stop.

That is not just a fear, it is reality.

[StrangeSox]

Which is exactly why we can't have a sane discussion about guns in this country, because some people refuse to accept any change from the status quo at all unless its even less control.

[Reddy]

That is not just a fear, it is reality.

lol based on WHAT?

Edited December 16, 2012 by Reddy

[Jake]

That is not just a fear, it is reality.

 

The one time the federal government did something about guns (assault weapons ban), not only did more restrictions not happen, the ban ended up expiring.