Connecticut school shooting

[Quin]

Each one of those teachers, who probably made peanuts, but took bullets for those kids are far bigger heroes than anyone who plays a game for a living.

[southsider2k5]

drugs don't kill 20 kids.

 

there's a bit of a difference

 

You're kidding, right?

[Reddy]

You're kidding, right?

and you're being intentionally obtuse (what new?) if you're thinking "but drugs DO kill kids all over the world!"

 

drugs are something someone does to THEMSELVES. guns, well, they kill innocent children who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[EvilMonkey]

and you're being intentionally obtuse (what new?) if you're thinking "but drugs DO kill kids all over the world!"

 

drugs are something someone does to THEMSELVES. guns, well, they kill innocent children who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The guy pulling the trigger killed them. The gun didn't just go off by itself.

[greg775]

I think this article basically encapsulates Greg's basic position...

 

 

RSEDITOR OF REDSTATEComing Together

By: Erick Erickson (Diary) | December 14th, 2012 at 04:37 PM | 335

 

At times like this we are told we must "come together."

 

When you think about, we don't, as a nation, come together much any more except in tragedy.

 

We used to come together as a nation during the Olympics, when we rooted for Americans. But in recent years we are too often lectured about the jingoism in rooting for America.

 

We used to come together as we sent men and women in to space, but we can't much afford to do that any more and we don't.

 

When we come together for most sporting events, we find ourselves divided among friends among teams.

 

We come together as a nation every four years to inaugurate the President, but it is as bitter and divisive as every.

 

About the only time we ever come together as a nation anymore is when savage tragedy happens. When men fly planes into tall buildings or gun down children or shoot up a movie theater, we gather, pray, and cry.

 

It is not healthy for a nation that its only acts of coming together are acts of tragedy, or even charity stemming from tragedy.

 

Our nation once shared a God who we all prayed to. Increasingly, the loudest voices in the nation are hostile to that God and those who worship him. The conversation at times of evil is immediately drown out by political opportunists seeking to drive their agenda. The news channels meditate on the nature of gun violence and gun restrictions or what other restrictions or laws can ever be used.

 

We do that, in part, because in times of helplessness it makes us feel like we can do something.

 

But we can do nothing in the face of evil until we confront evil itself.

 

The tragedy unfolding today is not an act of the insane, but an act of evil. That evil may drive the shooter insane, but in focusing on the insanity we lose focus on the evil.

 

There is really real good and there is really real evil in the world. Each time I have written that here on this site a vocal group of secularists and atheists have loudly chimed in to ridicule me for doing so.

 

They'll do so again. But in this small window America has a real moment to assess why it is that it is careening out of control morally and socially. In that small window, instead of discussing the politics or the laws, we should discuss the evil and the good and the God from whom we have, as a nation. drifted so far.

 

It is not healthy for a nation to only come together at times like this. It is not healthy for a nation to come together at tragedy so far removed from God.

 

THANKS CAUFIELD, You know me better than most cause of my rants in the past. This is exactly what I was TRYING to say.

Exactly my position.

Thanx.

 

p.s. Did you all see this? A death threat was phoned into today's church service in Ct., and they had to clear the church. Our country is a joke; our country is doomed. There was another sicko out there that thought it appropriate to call in a death threat???

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/newtow...-182416799.html

[Jake]

Comparing drug restrictions to gun restrictions is asinine. Guns aren't addictive and don't make the user physiologically high. You don't get withdrawals when you don't use your guns for too long.

[Quin]

THANKS CAUFIELD, You know me better than most cause of my rants in the past. This is exactly what I was TRYING to say.

Exactly my position.

Thanx.

 

p.s. Did you all see this? A death threat was phoned into today's church service in Ct., and they had to clear the church. Our country is a joke; our country is doomed. There was another sicko out there that thought it appropriate to call in a death threat???

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/newtow...-182416799.html

 

Yup, time to just kill off all the non-believers. We should force our religion on everyone.

 

That always works.

 

But hey, if makes certain Christians feel right to get rid of everyone else, let it be so.

[mr_genius]

p.s. Did you all see this? A death threat was phoned into today's church service in Ct., and they had to clear the church. Our country is a joke; our country is doomed. There was another sicko out there that thought it appropriate to call in a death threat???

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/newtow...-182416799.html

 

that really is pathetic.

Edited December 16, 2012 by mr_genius

[greg775]

Which is exactly why we can't have a sane discussion about guns in this country, because some people refuse to accept any change from the status quo at all unless its even less control.

 

You can't have a sane discussion about ANYTHING. Read the article caufield posted and we'll see the reaction.

The good, normal people of Soxtalk will mock me for believing in God; they will not consider any positions in that article about "evil." Like the article stated, the loudest voices in our country don't want to hear anything except their own position.

And meanwhile? Like the article stated our country can't come together on ANYTHING except feeling grief in times like this.

Whatever happened to having an open mind?

[greg775]

Yup, time to just kill off all the non-believers. We should force our religion on everyone.

 

That always works.

 

But hey, if makes certain Christians feel right to get rid of everyone else, let it be so.

 

See? You jump to all these conclusions in an attempt to deem this a silly article lest it interfere with your beliefs a moment. "Force our religion on everyone!" Who the f*** said that in that article????? This is a perfect example. God I'm depressed over all this.

[EvilMonkey]

Comparing drug restrictions to gun restrictions is asinine. Guns aren't addictive and don't make the user physiologically high. You don't get withdrawals when you don't use your guns for too long.

I thought guns made weaklings feel like Rambo?

[Quin]

You can't have a sane discussion about ANYTHING. Read the article caufield posted and we'll see the reaction.

The good, normal people of Soxtalk will mock me for believing in God; they will not consider any positions in that article about "evil." Like the article stated, the loudest voices in our country don't want to hear anything except their own position.

And meanwhile? Like the article stated our country can't come together on ANYTHING except feeling grief in times like this.

Whatever happened to having an open mind?

 

Sigh, greg, CLEARLY the guy is a bastard and a jackass. But you're using one example to define everyone who doesn't believe in God.

 

That article insinuates that by not believing in God, our nation is more fractured.

 

But let's take a look at how our nation would be if the most outspoken religious American's were always right.

 

We'd be segregated. Not just black and white, but black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

Gays would be persecuted. Not just no marriage for them, but straight up persecuted.

Only people to hold any office would be white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant males.

Women would have next to no real rights.

 

Need I go on?

[Quin]

You can't have a sane discussion about ANYTHING. Read the article caufield posted and we'll see the reaction.

The good, normal people of Soxtalk will mock me for believing in God; they will not consider any positions in that article about "evil." Like the article stated, the loudest voices in our country don't want to hear anything except their own position.

And meanwhile? Like the article stated our country can't come together on ANYTHING except feeling grief in times like this.

Whatever happened to having an open mind?

 

I DON'T KNOW GREG?

 

HOW BOUT YOU TELL ME?

 

THE ARTICLE IMPLIES THAT WE ARE A NATION LOST BECAUSE WE ALL DON'T FOLLOW THE CHRISTIAN BELIEF.

 

BUT BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH THAT YOU GLOSS OVER IT.

 

CLEARLY THE MOTHERf***ER IN THE STORY IS A BASTARD.

 

BUT HE IS THE EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE.

[greg775]

I DON'T KNOW GREG?

 

HOW BOUT YOU TELL ME?

 

THE ARTICLE IMPLIES THAT WE ARE A NATION LOST BECAUSE WE ALL DON'T FOLLOW THE CHRISTIAN BELIEF.

 

BUT BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH THAT YOU GLOSS OVER IT.

 

CLEARLY THE MOTHERf***ER IN THE STORY IS A BASTARD.

 

BUT HE IS THE EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE.

 

Your second response was reasoned. But see what your first response was?? The one that was completely loud, WRONG and full of it? That's what we have in America today. take a look at what you wrote. You didn't consider any of the guy's points about evil. You jumped all over a somber toned article that brought up some points that people like me believe to be true. A dissention of opinion. This is done a million times over in this country. Nobody has respect for anybody else's beliefs. There can be a discussion on NOTHING anymore. For you to get that out of that article, just depresses me because I know there's no hope. It goes on everywhere much worse than even what you wrote. We truly are doomed as a society. This proves it for me. It's going to get so much worse.

Edited December 16, 2012 by greg775

[Jake]

I thought guns made weaklings feel like Rambo?

 

No, it just makes the possessor much more likely to take many lives

[Reddy]

Your second response was reasoned. But see what your first response was?? The one that was completely loud, WRONG and full of it? That's what we have in America today. take a look at what you wrote. You didn't consider any of the guy's points about evil. You jumped all over a somber toned article that brought up some points that people like me believe to be true. A dissention of opinion. This is done a million times over in this country. Nobody has respect for anybody else's beliefs. There can be a discussion on NOTHING anymore. For you to get that out of that article, just depresses me because I know there's no hope. It goes on everywhere much worse than even what you wrote. We truly are doomed as a society. This proves it for me. It's going to get so much worse.

GREG.

 

the fact that you said his response was WRONG means that you're doing the EXACT THING that you're criticizing other Americans of doing, and that's NOT LISTENING to other viewpoints!!!!!!

 

good god man your hypocrisy is astounding!

[greg775]

And Quin, I do have an open mind. I don't preach on facebook about God because I know most of the people I know on there would be offended.

I read the positions of other people and normally am silent (except on a message board I guess, where I can vent anonymously) and laid back and let the louder people get their way.

I worship alone, lest I hurt somebody else's feelings who doesn't worship.

I read your opinions. I read all opinions.

I am not 100 percent sure even there is a God. All I am sure of is like the article stated, we are in a period of moral decline. We are killing ourselves in this country. It's only going to get worse. The only way it gets better is with a total lockdown, which also will be coming. More and more security, etc.

The moral fiber of our country is departing us and I'd like to examine the issue. Could I be wrong about solutions??? Of course. I would gladly defer to ANYBODY who can fix this.

 

I'll stop commenting about this except to thank Caufield for finding that article and state that that pretty much summizes my position on this stuff. Rather than the poorly worded post on my position earlier.

Edited December 16, 2012 by greg775

[DukeNukeEm]

Which is exactly why we can't have a sane discussion about guns in this country, because some people refuse to accept any change from the status quo at all unless its even less control.

Why cant everyone just agree with me? Why cant we just stop dissenting and let the government have all the guns, because that'll be a huge improvement.

[greg775]

Sigh, greg, CLEARLY the guy is a bastard and a jackass. But you're using one example to define everyone who doesn't believe in God.

 

That article insinuates that by not believing in God, our nation is more fractured.

 

But let's take a look at how our nation would be if the most outspoken religious American's were always right.

 

We'd be segregated. Not just black and white, but black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

Gays would be persecuted. Not just no marriage for them, but straight up persecuted.

Only people to hold any office would be white, Anglo-Saxon, protestant males.

Women would have next to no real rights.

 

Need I go on?

 

 

GREG.

 

the fact that you said his response was WRONG means that you're doing the EXACT THING that you're criticizing other Americans of doing, and that's NOT LISTENING to other viewpoints!!!!!!

 

good god man your hypocrisy is astounding!

 

I said it was 'wrong' because the guy was not saying anything of that sort. The article was very mild, not uttering any of those things. I can accept Quin's later post. I read it. I digested it. I agree that's his opinion and he made some good points. That's what America used to be about. Tolerance of all opinions. Disagreeing with some. Read the caufield article then read what Quin wrote in response. I mean, my gosh. Seriously?

 

I'm going to try to stop now because I've made my position clear, am depressed about all this and don't need to pollute the board.

[Quin]

Your second response was reasoned. But see what your first response was?? The one that was completely loud, WRONG and full of it? That's what we have in America today. take a look at what you wrote. You didn't consider any of the guy's points about evil. You jumped all over a somber toned article that brought up some points that people like me believe to be true. A dissention of opinion. This is done a million times over in this country. Nobody has respect for anybody else's beliefs. There can be a discussion on NOTHING anymore. For you to get that out of that article, just depresses me because I know there's no hope. It goes on everywhere much worse than even what you wrote. We truly are doomed as a society. This proves it for me. It's going to get so much worse.

 

Please go build your bunker deep underground and stay there, as for this article...

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________

 

At times like this we are told we must "come together."

 

Yes.

 

When you think about, we don't, as a nation, come together much any more except in tragedy.

 

Ok...didn't he just say we're supposed to come together in times like this?

We used to come together as a nation during the Olympics, when we rooted for Americans. But in recent years we are too often lectured about the jingoism in rooting for America.

 

No...we still do that. That's why Shaun White, Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte and company are superstars.

We used to come together as we sent men and women in to space, but we can't much afford to do that any more and we don't.

 

How is that coming together? We can't afford space missions at the moment. How are we supposed to come together on this one?

 

When we come together for most sporting events, we find ourselves divided among friends among teams.

 

Ok, I'm guessing this guy never has been a sports fan.

We come together as a nation every four years to inaugurate the President, but it is as bitter and divisive as every.

 

As every? And it's always been "bitter and divisive." You know, back in the God-fearing days when we had a civil war over it. It's been like that forever. I don't know what good old days this guy is reminiscing about. This map will showy you how truly "divisive" this f*** wants us to, but we aren't.

 

 

About the only time we ever come together as a nation anymore is when savage tragedy happens. When men fly planes into tall buildings or gun down children or shoot up a movie theater, we gather, pray, and cry.

 

Yes...because we need to. Nations don't get unified over everything unless their dictatorships...

 

It is not healthy for a nation that its only acts of coming together are acts of tragedy, or even charity stemming from tragedy.

 

I really don't understand where he wants us to come together. In ways that we haven't...like...ever?

 

Our nation once shared a God who we all prayed to. Increasingly, the loudest voices in the nation are hostile to that God and those who worship him. The conversation at times of evil is immediately drown out by political opportunists seeking to drive their agenda. The news channels meditate on the nature of gun violence and gun restrictions or what other restrictions or laws can ever be used.

 

This is so hilariously wrong. The loudest voices are those who still worship God and want everyone else to. There are plenty of non-Christians who are vocal about not wanting it shoved down their throat though. So who is worse, those who don't want religion shoved on them or those who believe that their religion is right and therefore everyone else needs to follow it in everyday life. Also, both the left and right are guilty of this. People force their agenda and please don't kid me that Christian's never do.

 

We do that, in part, because in times of helplessness it makes us feel like we can do something.

 

f*** us for coming together in tragedy because that's when we really need it...?

 

But we can do nothing in the face of evil until we confront evil itself.

 

Um...what? So we need to become totalitarian?

 

The tragedy unfolding today is not an act of the insane, but an act of evil. That evil may drive the shooter insane, but in focusing on the insanity we lose focus on the evil.

 

Yeah, no, I think we all agree he's an evil son of a b****.

 

There is really real good and there is really real evil in the world. Each time I have written that here on this site a vocal group of secularists and atheists have loudly chimed in to ridicule me for doing so.

 

Probably because he's implying that not believing in God is the reason we have evil in the world.

 

They'll do so again. But in this small window America has a real moment to assess why it is that it is careening out of control morally and socially. In that small window, instead of discussing the politics or the laws, we should discuss the evil and the good and the God from whom we have, as a nation. drifted so far.

 

So, we need to shove our religion on everyone and discuss why Christians are right and everyone else is wrong. Got it.

 

It is not healthy for a nation to only come together at times like this. It is not healthy for a nation to come together at tragedy so far removed from God.

 

Ok, so everyone needs to be Christian. And we shouldn't come together unless God tells us too.

[greg775]

Quin I can't even respond. I don't think Soxtalk wants me to respond when I disagree so much with one specific person. I'd have to take it 1-1 private to not pollute the board with my protests of dissent even more.

 

 

As far as more horrible aspects of this....

It's the second threat in as many days for St. Rose, according the Washington Post. On Saturday, the church displayed posters for parishioners to express their grief. However, an unknown prankster wrote, "This is just round one," on one of them, the pastor said.

 

So there's a death threat to the church today where they were having a memorial Mass and somebody else in the town devastated by this tragedy says "this is round one." Wow. And Westboro baptist wants to picket the funerals of the little kids. Great, just great.

Edited December 16, 2012 by greg775

[DukeNukeEm]

And the 2nd amendment doesn't say what kinds of guns we're free to have (though I can infer that muzzleloaders were likely about it) and to what extent we could have them. It doesn't tell me if I can have as many as I want, if I can carry it in public, if it can be automatic, etc. Let's not say these laws violate the second amendment, let's just say they restrict gun ownership.

The 1st amendment doesn't say free speech extends to the internet, wanna go to the courts to clarify that one?

[Quin]

Around noon, someone called the church phone, and said, “I’m going to kill everyone there. My friend didn’t finish the job.” Church officials tried to keep the caller on the line, asking him to repeat himself. He did, making the same threat in the same words.

 

Yes...he is the exception...not the rule...

[Quin]

And because Reddy cited the Hobbit earlier.

 

Samwise Gamgee: I know. It's all wrong. By rights we shouldn't even be here. But we are. It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo; the ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger, they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end... because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was, when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. They kept going. Because they were holding on to something.

 

Frodo Baggins: What are we holding on to, Sam?

 

Samwise Gamgee: That there's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for.

 

[Quin]

10 Things Christians and Atheists Can (and Must) Agree On