RockRaines Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) The intended purpose of a gun doesn't change the fact that I can put about any object in this sentence and it would still be true. A car is an inherently dangerous object. A knife is an inherently dangerous object. Alcohol is an inherently dangerous object. All must be used with caution, by the right people, or people can die. We have no way of knowing if the person using said object will be responsible or not (and in two of those situations we know that MORE people die than at the hands of guns annually). On one hand you have a car which is designed for transportation On the other you have a gun which is ENTIRELY designed for killing. Both are the same? Gotcha. Edited December 14, 2012 by RockRaines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) Your f***ing first, completely sickening, disgusting, you should be embarrased, reaction, was to make a joke. wrong. so you want to stop trying to exploit this with your 2nd amendment political rants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 This would not uninvent guns. This is typical knee jerk reaction that doesn't solve the problem you're all attempting to solve. We tried this with prohibition. Didn't work. Drugs are illegal, but they're f***ing everywhere. How do you assume this would work any differently with guns? All you'd end up doing is creating an illegal and very dangerous black market for guns, and the problem remains unsolved. Oh, and this black market wouldn't give a s*** any laws or any kind of waiting period or gun law...if you had the money, they'd sell it to you. Reality people. Please live in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:11 PM) On one hand you have a car which is designed for transportation On the other you have a gun which is ENTIRELY designed for killing. Both are the same? Gotcha. If guns were used ENTIRELY for killing human beings, i'd agree with you. But they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 All right everyone take a step back. I really don't want to have to start suspending people. We can have this discussion without it being personal attacks. I know people are upset right now, but this literally does no one any good. If we need to, I will lock the thread and end discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) It's not a joke to point out that the immediate "Zomg! we have to ban guns or we'll all die!" response was and is equally ridiculous as the last gun-related tragedy that occurred because a CRAZY PERSON IS f***ING CRAZY AND DID SOMETHING ONLY A CRAZY PERSON WOULD DO. When was 'the last gun-related tragedy that occurred'? THIS f***ING WEEK. Maybe there's a problem with how easy it is to get a gun in this country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) It's not a joke to point out that the immediate "Zomg! we have to ban guns or we'll all die!" response was and is equally ridiculous as the last gun-related tragedy that occurred because a CRAZY PERSON IS f***ING CRAZY AND DID SOMETHING ONLY A CRAZY PERSON WOULD DO. So let's just do nothing. Next time it happens, probably in a week or so. We will just say f*** this crazy guy and go about our business. Remember now is not the time to talk about gun laws! Repeat. Every week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) The intended purpose of a gun doesn't change the fact that I can put about any object in this sentence and it would still be true. A car is an inherently dangerous object. A knife is an inherently dangerous object. Alcohol is an inherently dangerous object. All must be used with caution, by the right people, or people can die. We have no way of knowing if the person using said object will be responsible or not (and in two of those situations we know that MORE people die than at the hands of guns annually). So what's the answer then? You agree that guns are dangerous tools, I assume. Is the answer better education? There's a test to ensure competence as to use of a car and you have to show proof of a driver's license to test drive one at a dealership. Would you be oppossed to a testing requirement? I know most states have that for conceal and carry. I don't know what kind of hoops you have to jump through to buy a gun in the first place (and obviously those vary from state to state). I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, and I apologize if I'm coming off that way. I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had about gun ownership, but I don't think that conversation starts either with (1) no restrictions or (2) absolute restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) If guns were used ENTIRELY for killing human beings, i'd agree with you. But they're not. Hand guns are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) CRAZY PERSON DID SOMETHING CRAZY THAT WAS ENABLED BY READILY AVAILABLE GUNS HOW f***ING WEIRD AND UNPREDICTABLE Given the amount of registered gun owners, actually yes, it is still pretty weird and unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) A car is an inherently dangerous object. Cool. Can we require a national gun registry, a license, mandatory training and personal liability insurance for guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 12:49 PM) I understand the idea of owning guns to defend yourself against the government. I get the origins of the amendment. However... this was before the government developed flying aircraft and precision missiles. The idea that "I own guns to defend myself against the government" is out of date. Exactly. You should be able to own tanks and anti aircraft stuff, but those would be far too expensive or impractical for most criminals to have at their disposal.... The argument that everyone being armed is a deterrant to violence apparently has never heard of gangs. They are all armed. The more guns, the more danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:13 PM) Given the amount of registered gun owners, actually yes, it is still pretty weird and unpredictable. I can pretty easily predict that, within the next 6 months, there will be another mass shooting in this country. I can also predict that we will continue to have a much more difficult time with this than countries with sane gun laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 31 fatal U.S. school shootings since Columbine. School shootings in every other country in the world combined since that time: 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) When was 'the last gun-related tragedy that occurred'? THIS f***ING WEEK. Maybe there's a problem with how easy it is to get a gun in this country? And as i've said, make it more difficult to get guns. I'm fine with that if that would make you happy. But that's not going to do anything and you know it. This guy and the others like him plan this s*** out. So unless you're going to just ban guns altogether, no amount of restrictions would to stop this type of stuff. But continue to believe the problem is society allowing guns, and not the random crazy people that are just random crazy people who do random s***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) 31 fatal U.S. school shootings since Columbine. School shootings in every other country in the world combined since that time: 14. the United States is responsible for over 80 percent of all the gun deaths in the 23 richest countries combined Canada had less than 200 deaths due to firearms last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) 31 fatal U.S. school shootings since Columbine. School shootings in every other country in the world combined since that time: 14. Many other countries have their own gun problems. They may not be of the school shooting variety, but let's not pretend their own slew of problems don't exist, either. It's important people allow their emotions at the moment to simmer down, they're allowing anger to creep into their opinions and they way they speak to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) And as i've said, make it more difficult to get guns. I'm fine with that if that would make you happy. But that's not going to do anything and you know it. This guy and the others like him plan this s*** out. So unless you're going to just ban guns altogether, no amount of restrictions would to stop this type of stuff. But continue to believe the problem is society allowing guns, and not the random crazy people that are just random crazy people who do random s***. Pretty f***ing weird and unpredictable that countries with much saner gun laws and much less access to guns but still their own share of "random crazy people" manage to not have this s*** happen all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:12 PM) This would not uninvent guns. This is typical knee jerk reaction that doesn't solve the problem you're all attempting to solve. We tried this with prohibition. Didn't work. Drugs are illegal, but they're f***ing everywhere. How do you assume this would work any differently with guns? All you'd end up doing is creating an illegal and very dangerous black market for guns, and the problem remains unsolved. Oh, and this black market wouldn't give a s*** any laws or any kind of waiting period or gun law...if you had the money, they'd sell it to you. Reality people. Please live in it. You will never be able to get rid of guns, but right now there are more guns than people in the US. If you could somehow cut the number of people owning guns down, innocent people getting shot and possibly killed will go down as well. I don't know if it would have prevented what happened today. But getting a gun is too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Do you think that his would help? http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/f..._ppk_s_gun.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I don't think anyone's saying guns are the problem that causes this. We know it's the person. So to use that as a counter-argument is silly. Guns bring things from a possible level 1 or 2 to a 10, and make it a whole hell of a lot easier to accomplish things. Even an argument on the street or at a bar. Instead of yelling, fighting, whatever, hey look, I have a gun, here's an easy way to end it. Can't help but think of the Ben Wilson story. Completely escalated by a gun being in play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) Many other countries have their own gun problems. They may not be of the school shooting variety, but let's not pretend their own slew of problems don't exist, either. It's important people allow their emotions at the moment to simmer down, they're allowing anger to creep into their opinions and they way they speak to people. other developed countries' gun problems do not even begin to compare to the US, school-related or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:15 PM) Can we require a national gun registry, a license, mandatory training and personal liability insurance for guns? how would any of that would stop a guy from going on killing spree then shooting himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) Many other countries have their own gun problems. T Hmm? the United States is responsible for over 80 percent of all the gun deaths in the 23 richest countries combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 14, 2012 -> 02:20 PM) Do you think that his would help? http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/f..._ppk_s_gun.html not without removing the 300M+ guns currently in the US without this technology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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