Time to revisit the 2nd Amendment?

[Jenksismyhero]

But doing nothing today will do nothing for today and nothing for tomorrow. You at least need to install some sort of increased barrier on the acquisition of handguns.

 

I've never said do nothing. I've said to implement more restrictions. But i still maintain you're not going to stop these mass murders by doing it, and it's a nonstarter to talk about banning all guns like the initial post of this thread.

[Steve9347]

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

Stop with the facts.

 

NRA YEE HAWWWW

 

[RockRaines]

It's absolutely terrible. But s*** dude, I live near the City of Chicago. Watch the first 5 minutes of the news and there's a murder story. It's f***ing pathetic and a tragedy, but at some point it just becomes white noise. And let's not pretend like these events haven't happened before. I think the biggest school mass murder occurred in like 1925.

 

Mass media coverage and a s***ty economy brings out the worst in society.

Well to be fair kindergarten kids getting shot is alot different than what is going on in Chicago.

 

However even when it happens in a nice area its ho hum here. A couple of years ago on my bday a guy was gunned down right down madison st 2 blocks from my house. Nobody even discussed it on the news.

[Jenksismyhero]

Stop with the facts.

 

NRA YEE HAWWWW

 

 

Yeah these posts are productive.

[StrangeSox]

I'm hoping that instead of only focusing on guns, we can put more focus on how we treat and handle the mentally ill. Any number of these mass shooters had previous diagnoses and/or medications and/or instutitionalizations for mental illnesses. There are solutions to be had in this area. You can add a requirement for mental health professionals to log diagnoses or medications in a database to be access when purchasing guns. You can start looking at over-crowded prisons and invest in taking some of those who are mentally ill out of them, and putting them in (secure) facilities where they can get real help. You can crack down on gun dealers in the US who sell without the proper checks. You can require the checks to include that database of mental issues. You can disallow all imports of guns to US, even to those who can otherwise legally own them. Lots of ways to go about this before you even talk about infringing on gun ownership rights for the majority of Americans.

^^a good post!

[Balta1701]

Stop with the facts.

 

NRA YEE HAWWWW

 

Seriously.

 

Not the least bit a good day for jokes. It's just not. The sarcasm does not do anyone favors.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah these posts are productive.

 

The NRA and Wayne Lapierre should be mocked and derided. Not all gun owners or even regular NRA members.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well to be fair kindergarten kids getting shot is alot different than what is going on in Chicago.

 

However even when it happens in a nice area its ho hum here. A couple of years ago on my bday a guy was gunned down right down madison st 2 blocks from my house. Nobody even discussed it on the news.

 

Looking at that list that SS posted, I didn't remember a lot of those. The big ones from the last few years - Gifford (high profile victim), Colorado (school, movie theater) and this one (school, young kids). The rest are just people going postal and getting revenge and killing other people in the way.

[mr_genius]

The NRA and Wayne Lapierre should be mocked and derided. Not all gun owners or even regular NRA members.

 

i see your tolerance towards mocking the stupid is increasing. earlier it made you rage.

[witesoxfan]

I've never said do nothing. I've said to implement more restrictions. But i still maintain you're not going to stop these mass murders by doing it, and it's a nonstarter to talk about banning all guns like the initial post of this thread.

 

I think we agree, I think we just have different tones in which we're writing. No matter how difficult you make it to get guns, people will find a way and gun violence will occur.

[Wanne]

Rational people will agree. Gun-totin' NRA folks will disagree and scream that "bad people will get guns anyway".

 

Meanwhile, our children are being murdered by psychopaths who can easily buy a gun at a gun show.

 

I think you might be stereotyping NRA "folks" as backwoods hillbillies with confederate flags and rifle mounts in their pickup windows. I actually enjoy quite a few benefits I get from the NRA...and agree with their stance of protecting the 2nd Amendment. Problem with the NRA is some of their agendas and lobbying give them a bad name.

 

I do agree with your view on how easily it is to buy a gun at a gun show. Many vendors go thru the proper paperwork and procedures but you can buy weapons directly from attendees at these shows...inside them as well as outside. Also you have classified sites that you can buy and sell weapons very easily. Have some interesting stories on one of those where I sold a few guns. But overall I do agree with the overall background check should be more stringent...like it is to buy NFA weapons (which btw...people think it's illegal to buy or own fully automatic weapons...it's not. You just have to go through much more paperwork and wait a few months...but you can legally own them once you've gone thru proper channels).

[StrangeSox]

Right, and they have to have been registered prior to 84 or 86 (I forget which year), which severely limits their supply.

[Steve9347]

Seriously.

 

Not the least bit a good day for jokes. It's just not. The sarcasm does not do anyone favors.

It's not a joke. That's exactly how the gun defenders are, and I'm f***ing sick of it. There's a reason the USA is so far and away the leader in gun deaths. Anytime any action is started, the NRA comes in and "saves the day".

 

And then today happens. And then something next week happens.

[flippedoutpunk]

I think we agree, I think we just have different tones in which we're writing. No matter how difficult you make it to get guns, people will find a way and gun violence will occur.

 

Where's that other poster on here that used to be in a gang, tuna? did he post in this thread yet? He could probably tell everyone how easy it is to obtain illegal firearms and bulletproof vests etc. I know from experience, the kids i used to be surrounded by in high school all bragged about how easy it was to get a gun and i remember them showing me backpacks full of pistols and trunks of cars with automatic weapons, and im talking military grade stuff as in the same armor that I used in Iraq. Gun control laws? Psshh. Maybe it could work in the minds of those that have lived in cozy neighborhoods all their lives, but in neighborhoods that would make robocop malfunction, gun control means squat.

[Steve9347]

Not legally. Still need background checks and have the 3 day waiting period.

It happens all the time at legal gun shows.

[Balta1701]

It's not a joke. That's exactly how the gun defenders are, and I'm f***ing sick of it. There's a reason the USA is so far and away the leader in gun deaths. Anytime any action is started, the NRA comes in and "saves the day".

 

And then today happens. And then something next week happens.

Say that, rather than the sarcastic image.

 

I'd say a bit of decorum could do everyone some good today.

[Wanne]

Right, and they have to have been registered prior to 84 or 86 (I forget which year), which severely limits their supply.

 

It's 86. But besides fully automatic machine guns covers such weapons such as short-barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles, suppressors (silencers) and grenade launchers.

 

I've actually run across quite a few out here (except the grenade launchers). Not a huge abundance of weapons...but more than you think. Plus if you want one...a dealer will track it down for you.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Wanne

[EvilMonkey]

It happens all the time at legal gun shows.

You can't LEGALLY get a gun at a gun show without the waiting period and background check. Even at auctions, which I just got my 3rd one at last month, you still need to fill out the transfer forms and wait 3 days.

[flippedoutpunk]

I think you might be stereotyping NRA "folks" as backwoods hillbillies with confederate flags and rifle mounts in their pickup windows. I actually enjoy quite a few benefits I get from the NRA...and agree with their stance of protecting the 2nd Amendment. Problem with the NRA is some of their agendas and lobbying give them a bad name.

 

I agree. All of my handguns are registered with the Chicago Police Dept. and I am extremely trained and proficient in the use of each one. The neighborhood I currently live in isnt the greatest, theres always vehicle break ins, drug transactions, fights on my block. If anyone has ever dealt with gangmembers in their neighborhood they would know that it takes the cops an extraordinary amount of time to actually show up to a scenes. Id like to feel like i have some sort of control when it comes to the safety of me and my family and neighbors.

[Y2HH]

I had some time to think on this during my quiet drive home from work...

 

Emotions are high...and at this juncture, I'd recommend everyone take a step back and reflect instead of trying to rile up a hive-mind mentality to push a partisan agenda regardless of which side of that line you stand on. Your ideas may or may not have stopped this crime from happening today, it's all conjecture, so please, stop being mean to one another just because you disagree on on the how or the why. This isn't the time to push your personal agendas...that makes you an opportunist of the worst kind. Don't be that...everyone here is better than that. There will be a time and a place to have this discussion, and it's clearly not right now.

 

Right now the only thing you should be discussing is how much you love your family, friends and to reflect on what happened today so this tragedy doesn't snowball and become lost in nothing more than a partisan argument. Innocent lives were lost, including those of children.

 

Step back.

[Steve9347]

We're all pissed that so many children died today. I do respect everyone's opinion here, I just wish there was a simple solution.

 

Like making it harder to get guns.

[Soxbadger]

I agree, and as I said on the first page if you want to make the best laws you have to be cold and heartless, not filled with emotion.

[Wanne]

We're all pissed that so many children died today. I do respect everyone's opinion here, I just wish there was a simple solution.

 

Like making it harder to get guns.

 

I hear ya and feel the same way. Making restrictions is a start...but in all honestly does nothing to the well over 300,000,000 weapons in the United States today. Good luck gathering all those up. But today is more of a day for reflection and prayers to the people and families effected by this horrible event.

[Soxbadger]

I hear ya and feel the same way. Making restrictions is a start...but in all honestly does nothing to the well over 300,000,000 weapons in the United States today. Good luck gathering all those up. But today is more of a day for reflection and prayers to the people and families effected by this horrible event.

 

I am desensitized, I deal with bad things all the time. Part of reflection is asking what could have be done differently.

 

I just do not like defeatest attitudes. If we as a society believe that less guns would improve society, then 300 million, 100 billion or 1 billion trillion guns should not deter us from trying to reach that goal. But that is the first step in this discussion, do we really want to give up guns?

 

I am willing to. I would rather die myself, than have a weapon I owned be involved in the death of someone else. I am probably not in the majority, I recognize this. But that is where the discussion really needs to start. How many of us would be okay with destroying all civilian guns tomorrow.

 

In my opinion the answer is not the majority. So until then we are stuck with what we have. Which is why in my opinion the best solution is to allow states, cities, etc to create their own rules. If citizens of Chicago are okay with only criminals having guns and are fine with that risk, so be it. If Texas wants to allow rocket launchers, so be it.

 

I do not believe I can change the mind of everyone in America, but I do believe that as American's we should have the right to determine whether we can collectively agree that we do not need to have guns to survive.

[Wanne]

I am desensitized, I deal with bad things all the time. Part of reflection is asking what could have be done differently.

 

I just do not like defeatest attitudes. If we as a society believe that less guns would improve society, then 300 million, 100 billion or 1 billion trillion guns should not deter us from trying to reach that goal. But that is the first step in this discussion, do we really want to give up guns?

 

I am willing to. I would rather die myself, than have a weapon I owned be involved in the death of someone else. I am probably not in the majority, I recognize this. But that is where the discussion really needs to start. How many of us would be okay with destroying all civilian guns tomorrow.

 

In my opinion the answer is not the majority. So until then we are stuck with what we have. Which is why in my opinion the best solution is to allow states, cities, etc to create their own rules. If citizens of Chicago are okay with only criminals having guns and are fine with that risk, so be it. If Texas wants to allow rocket launchers, so be it.

 

I do not believe I can change the mind of everyone in America, but I do believe that as American's we should have the right to determine whether we can collectively agree that we do not need to have guns to survive.

 

I've said this forever...about what's aired on television, movies, video games, etc..."You can't legislate morality..."