Time to revisit the 2nd Amendment?

[Jenksismyhero]

This statement is patently false.

 

You can legally own a gun in Chicago.

 

You just can't take it anywhere but your home (for now).

Edited December 14, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[GoSox05]

They still have guns, from your own link - they can own shotguns and air rifles.

 

As far as this:

 

 

 

I'm fine with all of that. Some states already have some of those measures, but i'd be fine making them more difficult to buy. You're making me jump through more hoops, and you're not going to stop an incident like this, but fine, if that makes you feel better about it.

 

 

They can still get shotguns, but barely. They have almost no guns and they have almost no gun homicides.

 

We had about 10,000.

[3E8]

if guns are banned, the black market demand would be huge. think alcohol prohibition big.

But wouldn't the supply for black market firearms and ammunition be much different than the black market for alcohol?

[Reddy]

Guns should be legal, but ownership rules should be strict and actually enforced well.

 

It should probably be made a federal law that background checks are mandatory for gun ownership.

 

That said, people who do this stuff will get their hands on a gun or some weaponry to do this type of damage still.

 

I agree with you. Also think there should be a psychiatric evaluation

[Soxbadger]

You just can't take it anywhere but your home (for now).

 

Once again not true.

 

You can legally transport your gun, you just cant have it loaded on the street.

 

If we are going to make comparisons and have a legitimate discussion, at least start with a factual framework that is correct.

 

You can own a gun in Chicago. Saying its "illegal" is at best mistaken, at worst is a flat out lie to try and perpetrate a myth.

 

[StrangeSox]

Yeah hows that ban on guns working in the City of Chicago? No one dies from being shot right?

 

this is why gun restrictions are a national and not a state or local issue.

[illinilaw08]

Indirectly you justify this asshole's actions by blaming the weapon used, not the person using it. Like it's societies fault for allowing people to have weapons. THAT's what caused this problem, not the crazy psycho that pulled the trigger. That's a f***ed up view of crime.

 

For a second, let's try to take all emotion out of this, not discuss the 2nd Amendment, and reach a couple points that I think everyone can agree on:

 

1) A gun is a tool.

 

2) A gun is a particuarly dangerous tool. If I mishandle a hammer, maybe I smash my fingers, maybe I accidentally hit someone behind me in the head. If I mishandle a gun and it accidentally discharges, I can kill someone.

 

3) There is no other tool readily available on the open market that, if used for its intended purpose, is used to kill or injure.

 

4) Putting the three above assumptions together shows that guns are way more likely to be used in a case like this than any other tool. They don't require close proximity to victims. In situations like the tragedy today, they don't even require accuracy to cause chaos and untold tragedy.

 

5) There's no way we are getting rid of guns altogether from this society any time soon. The government doesn't have the resources or the willpower to restrict gun ownership entirely.

 

I don't have a problem with responsible gun ownership. I don't have a problem with people that own guns to hunt, shoot at the range, or protect themselves. I do have a problem with people ignoring the fact that guns are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and that, when purchased, we have no way of knowing if the person buying is going to be responsible or not.

[StrangeSox]

For a second, let's try to take all emotion out of this, not discuss the 2nd Amendment, and reach a couple points that I think everyone can agree on:

 

1) A gun is a tool.

 

2) A gun is a particuarly dangerous tool. If I mishandle a hammer, maybe I smash my fingers, maybe I accidentally hit someone behind me in the head. If I mishandle a gun and it accidentally discharges, I can kill someone.

 

3) There is no other tool readily available on the open market that, if used for its intended purpose, is used to kill or injure.

 

4) Putting the three above assumptions together shows that guns are way more likely to be used in a case like this than any other tool. They don't require close proximity to victims. In situations like the tragedy today, they don't even require accuracy to cause chaos and untold tragedy.

 

5) There's no way we are getting rid of guns altogether from this society any time soon. The government doesn't have the resources or the willpower to restrict gun ownership entirely.

 

I don't have a problem with responsible gun ownership. I don't have a problem with people that own guns to hunt, shoot at the range, or protect themselves. I do have a problem with people ignoring the fact that guns are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and that, when purchased, we have no way of knowing if the person buying is going to be responsible or not.

^^

[Jenksismyhero]

Once again not true.

 

You can legally transport your gun, you just cant have it loaded on the street.

 

If we are going to make comparisons and have a legitimate discussion, at least start with a factual framework that is correct.

 

You can own a gun in Chicago. Saying its "illegal" is at best mistaken, at worst is a flat out lie to try and perpetrate a myth.

 

Oh for f***'s sake, you know the point i'm making. People involved in the incredibly high rate of gun homicides in this city are not doing anything legal, despite the relatively high level of restrictions to guns that the county and city have. It's a farce to believe that more restrictions is going to do anything. We live in a different culture than other countries in the world for better or for worse. Comparing us to Japan as simply as "they ban them, they don't have as many crimes" is overly simplistic. Even that Atlantic article admits that. Do we want to live in a police state? Do we want to go through full body pat downs and strip searches for every building we enter? That's the only way of being 100% safe from GUN violence, but not violence of any kind. Sorry, I prefer not to live like that. I prefer to believe that it's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people.

[pettie4sox]

There's no stopping tragedies like this. At best revoking the 2nd amendement will be like putting a band-aid on the problem. The problem lies with the individuals who use these tools for their destructive purposes.

 

I think there should be harsh crimes if you're caught with an unregistered gun but that's about all you can do. As an earlier poster mentioned, the cost of freedom means you're going to have incidents like this. Someone is going to misuse a tool for a tragic ordeal.

[StrangeSox]

Most other countries with sane gun laws don't have tragedies like this, and they certainly don't have them happen multiple times a year. Norway's tragic shooting incident was so notable because of how rare something like that is.

[Jenksismyhero]

For a second, let's try to take all emotion out of this, not discuss the 2nd Amendment, and reach a couple points that I think everyone can agree on:

 

1) A gun is a tool.

 

2) A gun is a particuarly dangerous tool. If I mishandle a hammer, maybe I smash my fingers, maybe I accidentally hit someone behind me in the head. If I mishandle a gun and it accidentally discharges, I can kill someone.

 

3) There is no other tool readily available on the open market that, if used for its intended purpose, is used to kill or injure.

 

4) Putting the three above assumptions together shows that guns are way more likely to be used in a case like this than any other tool. They don't require close proximity to victims. In situations like the tragedy today, they don't even require accuracy to cause chaos and untold tragedy.

 

5) There's no way we are getting rid of guns altogether from this society any time soon. The government doesn't have the resources or the willpower to restrict gun ownership entirely.

 

I don't have a problem with responsible gun ownership. I don't have a problem with people that own guns to hunt, shoot at the range, or protect themselves. I do have a problem with people ignoring the fact that guns are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and that, when purchased, we have no way of knowing if the person buying is going to be responsible or not.

 

The intended purpose of a gun doesn't change the fact that I can put about any object in this sentence and it would still be true. A car is an inherently dangerous object. A knife is an inherently dangerous object. Alcohol is an inherently dangerous object. All must be used with caution, by the right people, or people can die. We have no way of knowing if the person using said object will be responsible or not (and in two of those situations we know that MORE people die than at the hands of guns annually).

Edited December 14, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[pettie4sox]

Oh for f***'s sake, you know the point i'm making. People involved in the incredibly high rate of gun homicides in this city are not doing anything legal, despite the relatively high level of restrictions to guns that the county and city have. It's a farce to believe that more restrictions is going to do anything. We live in a different culture than other countries in the world for better or for worse. Comparing us to Japan as simply as "they ban them, they don't have as many crimes" is overly simplistic. Even that Atlantic article admits that. Do we want to live in a police state? Do we want to go through full body pat downs and strip searches for every building we enter? That's the only way of being 100% safe from GUN violence, but not violence of any kind. Sorry, I prefer not to live like that. I prefer to believe that it's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people.

 

I can't help but to picture reading this in a Ron Swanson voice.

[mr_genius]

i think the shooters links to radical left wing extremism has a lot to do with the shootings. clearly the shootings were inspired by his political beliefs. this is why the Democrats need to tone down the rhetoric and act responsibly.

[StrangeSox]

usually I'm on-board with your trollery but honestly, knock it the f*** off

[mr_genius]

usually I'm on-board with your trollery but honestly, knock it the f*** off

 

why? you guys are here pulling out all the bulls*** as usual. see how s***ty it looks now? wanna cut it out?

[Jenksismyhero]

why? you guys are here pulling out all the bulls*** as usual. see how s***ty it looks now? wanna cut it out?

 

But you're wrong and they're right! Can't you see the difference?

[mr_genius]

But you're wrong and they're right! Can't you see the difference?

 

oh yea, i forgot about that.

[Balta1701]

The difference is some people don't think it's a f***ing joke and you do.

[mr_genius]

The difference is some people don't think it's a f***ing joke and you do.

 

the situation isn't a joke, i'm blasting you idiots for making this into some political argument. you just can' t pass it up though.

Edited December 14, 2012 by mr_genius

[Balta1701]

the situation isn't a joke, i'm blasting you idiots making this into some political argument with sarcasm. which you deserve.

Your f***ing first, completely sickening, disgusting, you should be embarrased, reaction, was to make a joke.

[StrangeSox]

nobody was making this a right/left argument you moron

[RockRaines]

Yeah hows that ban on guns working in the City of Chicago? No one dies from being shot right?

LOL, its one area. Guns are legally bought just outside of the city and brought in. That literally has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about.

[Jenksismyhero]

The difference is some people don't think it's a f***ing joke and you do.

 

It's not a joke to point out that the immediate "Zomg! we have to ban guns or we'll all die!" response was and is equally ridiculous as the last gun-related tragedy that occurred because a CRAZY PERSON IS f***ING CRAZY AND DID SOMETHING ONLY A CRAZY PERSON WOULD DO.

[StrangeSox]

CRAZY PERSON DID SOMETHING CRAZY THAT WAS ENABLED BY READILY AVAILABLE GUNS HOW f***ING WEIRD AND UNPREDICTABLE