Time to revisit the 2nd Amendment?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I don't think it is all that different. Alcohol related deaths outnumber gun related deaths so why is one OK and not the other?

 

Because they aren't as different as people would like them to be. It's a valid similarity, but one that people don't take seriously enough.

 

Because they like drinking and don't want the government telling them they can't do it anymore.

 

Bingo.

 

ALCOHOL KILLS YOURSELF, CIGARETTES KILL YOURSELF, DRUGS KILL YOURSELF

 

GUNS KILL OTHER PEOPLE

 

will you stop with the ridiculous fallacious arguments???

 

*Sigh*

 

Unfortunately too many people believe this. Reality doesn't set in on it for most until they lose someone because some asshole decided to get wasted and drive home and change their life forever.

[StrangeSox]

Don't they track large-quantity fertilizer purchases since OKC?

 

 

Apparently there were proposed rules from Dept. of Homeland Security and some bills in congress as well as state-level bills, but it doesn't seem like it ever went anywhere.

[Y2HH]

This thread has arrived at exactly where I expected it to arrive.

 

Which is: Agree with my opinions and I'll agree you're right.

 

The #1 talking point of the "open minded".

[LittleHurt05]

This thread has arrived at exactly where I expected it to arrive.

 

Which is: Agree with my opinions and I'll agree you're right.

 

The #1 talking point of the "open minded".

 

I disagree

[Y2HH]

I disagree

 

Exactly.

[Steve9347]

I've mentioned this earlier,

 

You can do whatever you damn well please with a car on your own property. Dont even need to have a license, if you own enough land you can get absolutely drunk off your tits and drive your car around like a banshee. You can even build something that gets 10 gallons to the mile and farts out the emissions of a 747. Its your machine, its your property and you can do whatever you want with it on your property. Public roads are where you have to start playing by rules.

If someone wandered on your property and you hit them, that'd be a problem and you'd get DUI and manslaughter charges.

[BigSqwert]

It's funny how we have the worst homicide rate in the world involving guns for westernized societies, by a wide margin, and half the population thinks it has absolutely nothing to do with our lax gun laws. All the other countries play the same video games, watch the same movies from Hollywood, and have nerdy high school boys who are ostracized.

Edited December 20, 2012 by BigSqwert

[StrangeSox]

It isn't also quite clear-cut that you can get drunk and drive on your own open property. Laws vary by state, but generally there is some stipulation that you must have control over the property and that the public cannot freely enter--meaning you'd need a secured fenced piece of land, not just some open field where someone can wander out. You can also be charged with a DUI for sitting in a driveway with the keys in the ignition.

 

This is based on 2 minutes of googling.

[BigSqwert]

I've also not seen people who snap go out of their way to steal cars or use their own to go on mass killing sprees to kill as many people as possible. They go for the true killing weapon of choice, guns,.

[Reddy]

This thread has arrived at exactly where I expected it to arrive.

 

Which is: Agree with my opinions and I'll agree you're right.

 

The #1 talking point of the "open minded".

 

honestly i hate when people say this.

 

 

You can have an OPINION on something like abortion when it comes down to whether or not you THINK the fetus is a person or not. THAT'S opinion. When it comes down to guns being designed to be used to intentionally kill large numbers of people, that's NOT an opinion, but a FACT. Just like it's a fact that cars are not made for the same purpose as a gun, thus car-related deaths are not comparable to gun related deaths in just about any respect.

 

 

[Reddy]

It's funny how we have the worst homicide rate in the world involving guns for westernized societies, by a wide margin, and half the population thinks it has absolutely nothing to do with our lax gun laws. All the other countries play the same video games, watch the same movies from Hollywood, and have nerdy high school boys who are ostracized.

[Balta1701]

I've also not seen people who snap go out of their way to steal cars or use their own to go on mass killing sprees to kill as many people as possible. They go for the true killing weapon of choice, guns,.

If people have good ways to suggest laws that would reduce the incidence of drunk driving, I'd be totally game for those also.

 

I think city-funded tipsy-tow programs or free drivers or something like that, the type of thing that happens on expensive nights, would be a great thing to have in areas with multiple bars. I'd think of it as effectively an expense that the city imposes upon those facilities.

[BigSqwert]

If people have good ways to suggest laws that would reduce the incidence of drunk driving, I'd be totally game for those also.

 

I think city-funded tipsy-tow programs or free drivers or something like that, the type of thing that happens on expensive nights, would be a great thing to have in areas with multiple bars. I'd think of it as effectively an expense that the city imposes upon those facilities.

Most people would agree to better laws and regulations to reduce drunk driving incidents. I wish I could say the same thing about gun homicides.

[Reddy]

Most people would agree to better laws and regulations to reduce drunk driving incidents. I wish I could say the same thing about gun homicides.

 

WHOA WHOA WHOA

 

Freedom and America dude. Sorry, I mean 'Murica

[Balta1701]

Most people would agree to better laws and regulations to reduce drunk driving incidents. I wish I could say the same thing about gun homicides.

It's getting presented like drunk driving is something we can't improve upon. That's not true either, in that case it's the "Cut spending!" "How dare you regulate private business!" that I think gets in the way of the kind of proactive steps I'd like to see from governments.

[Steve9347]

It's funny how we have the worst homicide rate in the world involving guns for westernized societies, by a wide margin, and half the population thinks it has absolutely nothing to do with our lax gun laws. All the other countries play the same video games, watch the same movies from Hollywood, and have nerdy high school boys who are ostracized.

They don't think this. They just don't want their guns taken away.

 

They've watched enough Clint Eastwood movies to know that they need their guns! And there will be hell to pay if the government ever comes on their land and tries to raise their taxes!

 

Such an unrealistic ideology.

[LittleHurt05]

It's funny how we have the worst homicide rate in the world involving guns for westernized societies, by a wide margin, and half the population thinks it has absolutely nothing to do with our lax gun laws. All the other countries play the same video games, watch the same movies from Hollywood, and have nerdy high school boys who are ostracized.

 

There is one big difference. In those other countries, they censor violence and celebrate sex. In America it's the opposite. A kid can watch someone get their head blown off, but god forbid he sees a boob!

[StrangeSox]

argument over Sandy Hook shooting ends in gunfire

 

http://gawker.com/5969933/argument-over-sa...ends-in-gunfire

 

An eastern Missouri man is charged with armed criminal action and unlawful possession of a weapon after shooting at a fellow barber shop patron during a discussion about last week's mass shooting in Newtown, Conn.

 

The tale is confusing and bizarre, but serves as a sad commentary about this country's gun culture. According to the Associated Press, a patron at the All Cuts Barber Shop in Wentzville, Mo. remarked Tuesday that he wanted to kill the suspect, Adam Lanza — who is already dead. Somehow, inexplicably, 57-year-old Lester Davis was offended and took the comment as a threat, asking, "You want to murder me?"

 

Police say Davis then went to his car, got a pistol and fired three shots at the unnamed customer. Fortunately no one was injured.

 

Davis turned himself in to police. He remains in jail on $400,000 bond.

 

If only the customer had been armed, too!

 

edit: This is why saying "we need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals/bad guys" is meaningless. I'm sure Davis was a Law Abiding Citizen prior to this, as was the guy who shot someone at Little Caesers, and Dunn, and Zimmerman, and, of course, Nancy and Adam Lanza.

Edited December 20, 2012 by StrangeSox

[BigSqwert]

There is one big difference. In those other countries, they censor violence and celebrate sex. In America it's the opposite. A kid can watch someone get their head blown off, but god forbid he sees a boob!

That's a pretty general statement. You're telling me Modern Combat is only sold in the states?

[Reddy]

There is one big difference. In those other countries, they censor violence and celebrate sex. In America it's the opposite. A kid can watch someone get their head blown off, but god forbid he sees a boob!

i dunno... animes are pretty violent AND boobtastic.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Reddy

[Jenksismyhero]

Alcohol requires a second step to be dangerous. A bottle of beer is not dangerous. Being drunk is not dangerous (there is a limit here, sure). Being drunk AND driving is dangerous. Being drunk AND wielding a gun is dangerous. People have been drinking beer for about as long as human civilization has existed.

 

Guns are a relatively new invention and particularly, the modern semi-automatic weapon is new -- significantly, it post-dates our constitution. It is rather difficult, comparatively, to use a gun for mere private use. Every time you fire a weapon, there is significant risk. Nobody sits at home on the weekend and fires off their gun, there's almost no place you can live in which it makes sense for you to fire your gun in your home or on your property. This is why you have to go to a club (or Little Caesar's apparently) to shoot your gun. This is why if you go to a gun range and someone unconsciously waves their gun around, everyone in the place ducks for cover.

 

Becoming drunk and dangerous requires a series of calculated decisions and, often, neglect on part of your peers. A gun becomes dangerous the second you're near it. This is why you have to take a class in the state of IL to legally own a firearm or hunt. One unconscious pull of a trigger can be the death of somebody. If I'm simply demented or perhaps even just angry to an unprecedented extent, I can use the gun out of malice and kill people, perhaps many people. There aren't many good uses for alcohol in that situation, save self-medication.

 

They're both dangerous, but they're totally different. One's function is death -- it can be avoided and in most cases is, thanks to so many conscientious gun owners like myself. However, when it functions properly it kills or performs an action that would be lethal if pointed in the right place. Beer's function, primarily, is a beverage and its original use was a matter of nutrition. It was a way to eat barley. You can have too much, which is bad like most things. You can then drive, which is yet another calculated decision that is separate from your drinking too many beers. We should also add that the maximum lethality of a drunk driver is not all that impressive compared to the well-armed gunman.

 

See, this is the disconnect for me in this discussion. There are people who have guns, who have grown up with guns and don't live on top of someone else because they have land and space. They DO use guns on the weekends for kicks. I grew up with land and I would routinely go out and shoot at cans or clay pigeons or whatever. I wasn't killing anything. I wasn't shooting someone because I needed to wait for a pizza, I shot at a plastic or tin object because it was FUN to do.

 

Surprisingly i'm not some deranged individual that might shoot someone at any moment! Shocking!

 

Edit: bolded the wrong part. fixed.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I've also not seen people who snap go out of their way to steal cars or use their own to go on mass killing sprees to kill as many people as possible. They go for the true killing weapon of choice, guns,.

 

(somewhat graphic)

[Reddy]

See, this is the disconnect for me in this discussion. There are people who have guns, who have grown up with guns and don't live on top of someone else because they have land and space. They DO use guns on the weekends for kicks. I grew up with land and I would routinely go out and shoot at cans or clay pigeons or whatever. I wasn't killing anything. I wasn't shooting someone because I needed to wait for a pizza, I shot at a plastic or tin object because it was FUN to do.

 

Surprisingly i'm not some deranged individual that might shoot someone at any moment! Shocking!

 

Edit: bolded the wrong part. fixed.

but just because YOU'RE sane, doesn't mean we shouldn't make laws to help keep guns out of the hands of the insane!

[ChiSox_Sonix]

but just because YOU'RE sane, doesn't mean we shouldn't make laws to help keep guns out of the hands of the insane!

 

Why stop at guns? Shouldn't we attempt to make laws to make sure anything which can harm someone else be kept out of the hands of people who might misuse them, whether maliciously or otherwise?

[Jenksismyhero]

but just because YOU'RE sane, doesn't mean we shouldn't make laws to help keep guns out of the hands of the insane!

 

But by doing that you're restricting the right of 99.9% of people for the sake of .01%. We don't do this with any other issue where death is an unfortunate result and we know it'll happen. It's all based on people like Balta who fear they'll just be randomly shot by vigilantes in the streets. I'd imagine your odds are better at winning the lottery than being a victim of a stray bullet or intentional gun crime like Newton.