Time to revisit the 2nd Amendment?

[Balta1701]

Exactly. Reasonable restrictions are fine, and should be put into place. This applies to just about everything around us.

If this was possible politically... we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Y2HH]

If this was possible politically... we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

If most of these things were possible politically, we'd have about 4 total posts in the 'Buster.

[witesoxfan]

If most of these things were possible politically, we'd have about 4 total posts in the 'Buster.

 

5

[Reddy]

5

ok... yeah... but that's just your opinion. no REASONABLE person would argue for any number other than 4. that's a FACT.

[DukeNukeEm]

Okay, close the thread before duke posts.

Too late.

 

I didn't grow up around guns. I have family and friends that did. There is certainly a time and a place for guns. ptatc's use is one that I think gets generally overlooked (farmer/rancher protecting their livelihood). I get the appeal of target shooting. I get the sense of security a gun provides in the home (probably a similarly flawed sense of security to my alarm system - input after a burglary this year - but I understand that).

 

When I get uncomfortable about guns generally are the examples cited above at the barbershop and at the Little Ceasers. People get mad. They see red and don't think. I would rather that, in that situation, the Law Abiding Citizen get mad enough to punch me rather than have access to a gun to shoot me.

 

The things that frequently get ignored in this debate are:

 

1) There are plenty of practical, reasonable uses for guns in a society (ban all guns!); and

 

2) Just because you are comfortable around guns doesn't mean everyone is comfortable around them (arm the teachers!).

 

We will never legislate away gun violence entirely. The goal should be to lessen the likelihood of another Sandy Hook. But it should also be to lessen the likelihood of the barbershop and Little Ceaser's shootings. Why that guy needed to be carrying while he waited in line for his pizza is something I just don't understand.

 

I didn't grow up around guns either, I lived in Cook County until I was 18 (and now I'm back... seriously, what the f***?). But I'm glad the gun grabbers all rejoiced at your post even if it was just meaningless platitudes. What do you want to do about it then? How are you going to rectify your first point with your second?

 

The solution for a long, long time has been, more or less, that if you want a gun go get one and if you dont want to be armed you dont have to. How are you going to expand on that? Be careful, your gun grabbing friends who worship at the altar of the federal government are relying on you to come up with something here. Wouldn't want to let them down.

[DukeNukeEm]

If this was possible politically... we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Because when you give anyone who wants to empower the government an inch they're going to take a mile. Even if there are some restrictions that might be useful I'd still be against them because its just bringing us one step closer to the ultimate goal of a total ban.

[StrangeSox]

we should total ban u

[Steve9347]

I'm a gun grabber!

[bmags]

Too late.

 

 

 

I didn't grow up around guns either, I lived in Cook County until I was 18 (and now I'm back... seriously, what the f***?). But I'm glad the gun grabbers all rejoiced at your post even if it was just meaningless platitudes. What do you want to do about it then? How are you going to rectify your first point with your second?

 

The solution for a long, long time has been, more or less, that if you want a gun go get one and if you dont want to be armed you dont have to. How are you going to expand on that? Be careful, your gun grabbing friends who worship at the altar of the federal government are relying on you to come up with something here. Wouldn't want to let them down.

 

And what a solution it has been!

 

Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women.

 

 

[Y2HH]

And what a solution it has been!

 

Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women.

 

Other countries don't have that pesky f***ing Bill of Rights to contend with...if only we could just do away with it!

[bmags]

Other countries don't have that pesky f***ing Bill of Rights to contend with...if only we could just do away with it!

 

I'm not convinced that Heller prevents meaningful regulation.

[Jake]

The slippery slope argument is the most ridiculous BS I've ever heard. As long as people don't want all guns to be gone (only sub-10% want that), they won't take all the guns away. On the other hand, a strong majority favor some particular restrictions like an assault weapons ban, restrictions on high capacity clips, and improved enforcement on background checks and the closing of the gun show loophole. Those things are constitutional, so the will of the people should be done.

 

If the government wanted to take away your guns, they would actually try to amend the 2nd amendment. Nobody is doing that. When they start a big campaign to remove the 2nd amendment from the Constitution, you can worry about your guns.

[BigSqwert]

And what a solution it has been!

 

Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women.

 

[Y2HH]

I'm not convinced that Heller prevents meaningful regulation.

 

We CAN do SHOULD implement meaningful regulation/restrictions here, but our situation is very unique and cannot be compared to any other countries rules/regulations, as we have to do it in a way that remains constitutional. I believe it can be done...and I think if there was ever an opportunity to make it happen, it's now.

 

In other news, some kid in South Dakota just shot his friend with a shotgun and killed him after an argument over a paintball game.

[Reddy]

And what a solution it has been!

 

Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women.

that, my friends, is what we call a curb stomp.

[caulfield12]

And what a solution it has been!

 

Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women.

 

 

Don't forget abortion! Well, I guess that's in the all-inclusive "women" category.

 

You should include wanting to regulate the use of drugs too, not only drunk, but also high.

 

Really, it should be the actions of poor people, gays and women, because all poor people are inherently lazy, on food stamps/WIC/welfare/medicaid, and they should just all pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get loans from their family.

 

Oh, and heaven forbid any regulations for our banks, mortgage/securities companies, stock brokers, ratings agencies and Wall Street in general. We all saw how well that worked out.

 

While we're at it, we can get rid of the EPA (because global warming hasn't been scientifically proven) and Dept. of Education, because all children should be home schooled before they're corrupted by lazy/greedy teachers who are actually richer than the robber barons on Wall Street and who all want to hand out condoms, get rid of Christmas and teach their children only about secularists like Obama, Bill Maher and Jon Stewart, lol.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2012 by caulfield12

[illinilaw08]

Too late.

 

 

 

I didn't grow up around guns either, I lived in Cook County until I was 18 (and now I'm back... seriously, what the f***?). But I'm glad the gun grabbers all rejoiced at your post even if it was just meaningless platitudes. What do you want to do about it then? How are you going to rectify your first point with your second?

 

The solution for a long, long time has been, more or less, that if you want a gun go get one and if you dont want to be armed you dont have to. How are you going to expand on that? Be careful, your gun grabbing friends who worship at the altar of the federal government are relying on you to come up with something here. Wouldn't want to let them down.

 

1) How did I in anyway advocate "gun grabbing?" I made a pretty simple point that when someone gets pissed off and sees red, if they have a gun, the damage is way worse than if they throw a punch. Do you believe that you should be able to carry in a bar? At the zoo? In a courthouse? At work? At the Cell? Do you believe there should be any restrictions to when and where people should be allowed to carry firearms?

 

2) Here's what I would do (note that there is no way the political will exists in this country to get any of this enacted). I would limit magazine size. I would make harsher punishments for unlawful possession. I would take a lot of the federal money that goes to the DEA and put it toward a war on illegal possession of firearms (targeting high crime areas like those referenced by Alpha earlier in the thread). I would restrict when and where people can carry. Driving to the firing range? Lock your gun in the trunk on the way there. Going to the grocery store? Leave it at home (locked preferably, but that's not a Pandora's Box I'm willing to open). I like the idea of a national registry like we have with cars. It would probably make it easier to legally shift title to guns (someone passes away who owned a number of guns, keep people off Craigslist to make the transaction to sell those). Would make it easier to report and track a stolen weapon. Nationalize licensing of guns. Make the test to pass a full day written and practical. Make people re-take every three years. I would have the feds institute a large scale by back program annually. You are done with your gun, don't want it anymore, get it off the street and let the feds melt it down.

 

None of the suggestions above infringe upon your ability to enjoy your gun. You get to take it to the range. You get to protect your crops and your livestock. You get the feeling of security that comes with having a gun in your nightstand. You don't, however, get to put my life at risk if I say the wrong thing at the barbershop or in line at the grocery store.

 

Do the things I listed above eliminate gun violence? No. But they are a step to making things safer, balancing the rights of gun owners with the needs of the rest of us.

[StrangeSox]

We CAN do SHOULD implement meaningful regulation/restrictions here, but our situation is very unique and cannot be compared to any other countries rules/regulations, as we have to do it in a way that remains constitutional. I believe it can be done...and I think if there was ever an opportunity to make it happen, it's now.

 

In other news, some kid in South Dakota just shot his friend with a shotgun and killed him after an argument over a paintball game.

I'm sure his parents were law abiding citizens and not criminals/"bad guys"

[StrangeSox]

We CAN do SHOULD implement meaningful regulation/restrictions here, but our situation is very unique and cannot be compared to any other countries rules/regulations, as we have to do it in a way that remains constitutional. I believe it can be done...and I think if there was ever an opportunity to make it happen, it's now.

 

In other news, some kid in South Dakota just shot his friend with a shotgun and killed him after an argument over a paintball game.

Fwiw there was no constitutional individual right clearly on the books until four years ago. Another case could overturn that 5-4 decision

[DukeNukeEm]

And what a solution it has been!

 

Clearly, there are no examples in the world of gun laws in other countries that has led to lower gun violence. We can only compare things to alcohol and drunk driving, which liberals wouldn't want to curb because they drink and are lazy. Meanwhile conservatives don't want to regulate law abiding citizens, except gays and women.

Good for other countries in the world. When they become the lone superpower they can talk, I dont give a s***. Its my right as an American, not my non-right as a non-American.

 

EDIT- I have to run, I'll respond to this liberal nonsense later tonight when I get off work.

Edited December 20, 2012 by DukeNukeEm

[Reddy]

Good for other countries in the world. When they become the lone superpower they can talk, I dont give a s***. Its my right as an American, not my non-right as a non-American.

 

EDIT- I have to run, I'll respond to this liberal nonsense later tonight when I get off work.

we, um... sigh... fantasy land must be a nice place.

[BigSqwert]

Good for other countries in the world. When they become the lone superpower they can talk, I dont give a s***. Its my right as an American, not my non-right as a non-American.

 

EDIT- I have to run, I'll respond to this liberal nonsense later tonight when I get off work.

 

An overwhelming number of Americans want to see stricter gun regulations. I'd imagine that includes people from both major political parties.

[Quin]

Let's make a compromise.

 

Conservatives get to keep their guns, but have to give up the battle for gay rights, abortion, stem cells, euthanasia, remove "God" from the Pledge, etc.

 

Why? Because those all are treading on people's rights or forcing them to do something they don't want to or not letting them make a choice.

[witesoxfan]

An overwhelming number of Americans want to see stricter gun regulations. I'd imagine that includes people from both major political parties.

 

Yep

[Y2HH]

An overwhelming number of Americans want to see stricter gun regulations. I'd imagine that includes people from both major political parties.

 

Well said.