Time to revisit the 2nd Amendment?

[StrangeSox]

Well since SYG is a defense to homicide the assumption in the vast majority of cases is going to be homicide, with a jury deciding if it was justified or not later on. So yes, I could see those numbers being skewed that way.

 

Or it could be as the Trayvon situation originally was going to be: absolutely no trial and minimal investigation, quickly ruled a "justified homicide."

[Balta1701]

Did you look at the original study? What does he mean by "police statistics?" Just because the City of Chicago classifies a shooting as a homicide doesn't mean later on at trial that can't become a justifiable homicide. For all we know he's using what police initially think of a case, not the end result.

No, they use what is reported to the FBI after trial.

[Jenksismyhero]

Or it could be as the Trayvon situation originally was going to be: absolutely no trial and minimal investigation, quickly ruled a "justified homicide."

 

Could be, but justified homicide is by its nature going to be less likely given the pretty high burden you have to meet.

[Balta1701]

Could be, but justified homicide is by its nature going to be less likely given the pretty high burden you have to meet.

And yet, they find that lowering the standard for justifiable homicide, like SYG does by definition, is not associated with a strong increase in justifiable homicide in those states either. They find an increase of between 1 and 5 justifiable homicides reported out of the increase in 500 to 700 dead.

[StrangeSox]

btw from the study:

 

Finally, we perform several exercises to examine the possibility that additional reported criminal homicides induced by the laws were in fact legally justified, but were misreported by police to the FBI. We conclude on the basis of these findings that it is unlikely, albeit not impossible, that all of the additional homicides were legally justified but were misreported by police as murder or non-negligent homicide.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

Could be, but justified homicide is by its nature going to be less likely given the pretty high burden you have to meet.

 

The study specifically addressed this potential issue but did not find support for it.

[EvilMonkey]

We keep saying that, but then people commit mass murders with weapons acquired legally or easily enough that those purchases/acquisitions could have/should have been restricted. Many (not all) mass murderers do so with some sense of impulse and may not be able to carry out plans that are too elaborate. These are also outsiders, generally, so a kid who plays video games in his basement and has Asperger's probably doesn't know how to get in touch with illegal gun/bomb dealers and makers.

But that same kid can manage to find his way into just about any illegal drug he desires pretty easily. And bomb plans can be had online.

[Jake]

But that same kid can manage to find his way into just about any illegal drug he desires pretty easily. And bomb plans can be had online.

 

Yet we don't think he used drugs. And when was the last time someone went through the effort to bomb a school? We can't prevent everything, but we can prevent some things and make it more difficult and illegal to try to carry out these plans. For the purpose of stopping mass shootings, there are straightforward steps we can take to start preventing them.

[Balta1701]

Yet we don't think he used drugs. And when was the last time someone went through the effort to bomb a school?

Columbine, I believe.

[StrangeSox]

their bombs failed, didn't they?

[Balta1701]

their bombs failed, didn't they?

And everyone in this country should thank God they did.

[StrangeSox]

absolutely, that would have been OKC levels of bad.

[Reddy]

the whole argument of "we shouldn't ban guns because they'll make bombs instead" is just ludicrous.

 

basically that's like saying, "here kids, we don't want you killing 100 people with a bomb, so we'll make it easier for you to get semi-automatic rifles with which you'll only kill 10 to 30 people, how's that sound?"

 

 

[Jake]

We can't talk about Columbine, Wayne LaPierre says security was totally different back then and it was too easy to shoot up schools. Therefore, if a bomb failed at Columbine, then it would REALLY fail now.

[StrangeSox]

columbine, of course, had an armed Good Guy to shoot the Bad Guys

[EvilMonkey]

Seems like the Journal News story on gun owners is putting some state employees at risk.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/04/...E9030Y820130104

 

Inmates in local prisons have approached guards to say they know their home addresses, Rockland County Sheriff Lou Falco told the news conference

.

[Balta1701]

Hey, I finally found this article randomly today. I kept wanting to find this, because I think it's a fascinating statistic. It's quite well established that crime in general has been dropping in this country since about 1990, even in places like Chicago that are quite messy these days. At the same time, homicides by guns have been dropping, and the number of guns owned by people have been increasing.

 

The increasing gun ownership and decreasing homicides might well have been something people would argue is a sign that more guns = a safer country.

 

Turns out there's one more element buried in there; emergency care. The number of people shot in this country, per year, has skyrocketed by 50% as the number of guns has gone up. Basically, more guns and more people carrying them = more people getting shot, and the fewer deaths has been almost entirely due to improved emergency health care. Of course, it's hard to track the numbers exactly since the government has banned anyone from tracking them, so they had to go to hospital stats to get those numbers (ridiculous again), but 10,000 more people hospitalized from gunshots per year is a huge signal.

 

Found that to be fairly startling.

[caulfield12]

Hey, I finally found this article randomly today. I kept wanting to find this, because I think it's a fascinating statistic. It's quite well established that crime in general has been dropping in this country since about 1990, even in places like Chicago that are quite messy these days. At the same time, homicides by guns have been dropping, and the number of guns owned by people have been increasing.

 

The increasing gun ownership and decreasing homicides might well have been something people would argue is a sign that more guns = a safer country.

 

Turns out there's one more element buried in there; emergency care. The number of people shot in this country, per year, has skyrocketed by 50% as the number of guns has gone up. Basically, more guns and more people carrying them = more people getting shot, and the fewer deaths has been almost entirely due to improved emergency health care. Of course, it's hard to track the numbers exactly since the government has banned anyone from tracking them, so they had to go to hospital stats to get those numbers (ridiculous again), but 10,000 more people hospitalized from gunshots per year is a huge signal.

 

Found that to be fairly startling.

 

 

Makes a lot of sense. The simplest explanation being the best...

 

Just like the idea out there that Asians are so much better than anyone else at white. Well, turns out that many linguists and social scientists believe this is largely due to the ease and brevity of the pronunciation/lack of syllables in the words for 1-100 in languages like Chinese/Korean/Japanese.

 

Malcolm Gladwell detailed this idea in great detail in "Outliers."

[EvilMonkey]

Hey, I finally found this article randomly today. I kept wanting to find this, because I think it's a fascinating statistic. It's quite well established that crime in general has been dropping in this country since about 1990, even in places like Chicago that are quite messy these days. At the same time, homicides by guns have been dropping, and the number of guns owned by people have been increasing.

 

The increasing gun ownership and decreasing homicides might well have been something people would argue is a sign that more guns = a safer country.

 

Turns out there's one more element buried in there; emergency care. The number of people shot in this country, per year, has skyrocketed by 50% as the number of guns has gone up. Basically, more guns and more people carrying them = more people getting shot, and the fewer deaths has been almost entirely due to improved emergency health care. Of course, it's hard to track the numbers exactly since the government has banned anyone from tracking them, so they had to go to hospital stats to get those numbers (ridiculous again), but 10,000 more people hospitalized from gunshots per year is a huge signal.

 

Found that to be fairly startling.

If the increase is from criminals being shot I am all for it.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, f*** courts of law and due process.

[Steve9347]

If the increase is from criminals being shot I am all for it.

Well that sure is a big "if".

[Jenksismyhero]

http://myfox8.com/2013/01/06/ga-mom-shoots...saves-children/

 

She should have waited for the cops...

 

LOGANVILLE, Ga. — A Georgia mother hid her two 9-year-old twins and shot an intruder, Paul Ali Slater, several times during a home invasion on Friday, according to multiple media reports.

The Loganville mother said she didn’t initially answer when someone knocked on her door around 1 p.m. Friday. When the visitor began repeatedly ringing the doorbell, she called her husband at work, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

He then dialed 911 and his 37-year-old wife gathered their 9-year-old twins and hid them in a crawlspace inside the home.

According to the report, the intruder then forced his way into the home and started “rummaging” through the family’s belongings.

When the suspect went into the closet where the family was hiding ,the woman fired six bullets at the suspect, five of which hit alleged suspect Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area.

“He opens the closet door and finds himself staring down the barrel of a .38 revolver,” Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

The woman fled to a neighbor’s home with her children. The woman and her two children were not injured.

Popular story: Representative reintroduces bill to abolish presidential term limit

The injured intruder stumbled out of the home and attempted to flee in his car. However, he crashed into a wooded area and collapsed in a neighbor’s driveway, according to WSB-TV.

The suspect was arrested at the scene. He was taken to a nearby hospital and is expected to survive.

The victim’s husband said he’s proud of his wife.

“My wife is a hero. She protected her kids. She did what she was supposed to do as responsible, prepared gun owner,” Donnie Herman told WSB-TV.

[StrangeSox]

five of which hit alleged suspect Paul Ali Slater in the face and neck area.

 

wtf how did he survive that?

[Jenksismyhero]

wtf how did he survive that?

 

I wondered the same thing. Luck I guess.

[Cknolls]

http://myfox8.com/2013/01/06/ga-mom-shoots...saves-children/

 

She should have waited for the cops...

 

 

Mom of the year. How did she miss on the 6th?