Time to revisit the 2nd Amendment?

[StrangeSox]

Can you find the same statistic for drugs? Because alcohol consumption was insane right before prohibition, and a lot of what curbed that was education and the rise of groups against drinking. There was a bunch of PR campaigns like "if you drink you're killing your family" type stuff.

 

Of course, with that reduction in drinking, came the explosion of crime.

 

Sure, crime enabled...by guns. I don't think we'd reasonably see a bunch of gun and ammo manufacturers and distributors fighting it out in the streets, though. Plenty of black market items exist without the type of violence associated with drug prohibitions.

[StrangeSox]

This is part of my point. They're usually some loner person without many friends...just seems really coincidental...instead of Joe Blow who's been doing the same mundane job sorting mail for years and snaps on his boss. Who effin' does this kind of stuff?

 

People with serious mental illnesses who literally cannot grasp reality, mostly.

[RockRaines]

Here is where I agree with you.

 

I do think guns laws/restrictions can work if enforced properly. From purchase to registration. But the penalties on illegally obtained or legally obtained guns that are then brought into areas with restrictions on that type (think Chicago with hand guns), and not registered need to be much much more severe.

It should have been harder to get if at all anyway. I have a gun in Chicago, on Madison street, completely purchased legally.

[RockRaines]

Sure, crime enabled...by guns. I don't think we'd reasonably see a bunch of gun and ammo manufacturers and distributors fighting it out in the streets, though. Plenty of black market items exist without the type of violence associated with drug prohibitions.

Thats a pretty good point. I can easily manufacture alcohol or drugs on my own, making a functioning firearm? Not a chance.

[RockRaines]

like whichever moron made this:

 

 

ugh gun fetishists are so awful

This is the one I've seen the most

 

[witesoxfan]

Right, people with schzophrenia or some other disorder snap.

 

A yearly required mental health screening would help, but what if it was dad's guns he got a hold of?

 

Then it'll happen. But if Dad is such a poor father that he hasn't been seeking help to get his son help with some sort of disorder or hasn't taught him well enough the dangers of guns in the first place, Dad likely doesn't own this gun legally in the first place. Like I said, these sorts of behaviors don't appear overnight and most people don't snap without some sort of warning signs (though warning signs are hard to pick up and decipher at times).

 

If you really run people through a gauntlet to allow handguns, you are severely going to limit the number of handguns in the United States and you will allow for both personal freedom and the ability to still own handguns if they so choose.

 

(I admittedly hate handguns and I do get very uncomfortable around them, even when unloaded and handled by people who know what they're doing, and I don't plan on ever owning one)

[mr_genius]

Thats a pretty good point. I can easily manufacture alcohol or drugs on my own, making a functioning firearm? Not a chance.

 

if guns were illegal, making high quality illegal guns would be very profitable, so i would expect a lot of craftsmen to start making them.

 

[StrangeSox]

Then it'll happen. But if Dad is such a poor father that he hasn't been seeking help to get his son help with some sort of disorder or hasn't taught him well enough the dangers of guns in the first place, Dad likely doesn't own this gun legally in the first place. Like I said, these sorts of behaviors don't appear overnight and most people don't snap without some sort of warning signs (though warning signs are hard to pick up and decipher at times).

 

If you really run people through a gauntlet to allow handguns, you are severely going to limit the number of handguns in the United States and you will allow for both personal freedom and the ability to still own handguns if they so choose.

 

(I admittedly hate handguns and I do get very uncomfortable around them, even when unloaded and handled by people who know what they're doing, and I don't plan on ever owning one)

 

I think we're on the same page here, I was just devils-advocating it.

[RockRaines]

Has anyone gone through the pre-check process to get authorized to be fast tracked through TSA and Customs? SO much harder than buying a gun.

[StrangeSox]

Has anyone gone through the pre-check process to get authorized to be fast tracked through TSA and Customs? SO much harder than buying a gun.

 

And we're in Illinois, which actually has fairly restrictive gun laws. In many other states, you don't have to do anything but pay the cashier after waiting for a few days.

[Soxbadger]

Then whydoes the US constantly have one of the highest homicides rates of civilized first world countries? The UK and Europe overall have about 25% of the homicide rate. WHy is that?

 

Why?

 

Because the US has the most guns and guns are a very effective way of killing people. There are tons of posts of mine on the 2nd Amendment. Just this week I was arguing with Jenks why (imo) the 2nd amendment explicitly allows gun control and at best guarantees a militia the right to bear arms.

 

There was a lot of debate on it because of the IL law being overturned by the 7th circuit. I really hate the hypocritical nature of the argument about drugs and guns.

[Wanne]

Dude...there's an estimated well over 300,000,000 firearms in America. How on earth do you get them all? Not gonna happen. I'm a law abiding gun owner...and proud of it and carry daily. Have always been under the idea of: "Rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it...".

 

Where's the outrage at the number of drunk driving deaths each year which hover around 12,000?

[StrangeSox]

Has anyone gone through the pre-check process to get authorized to be fast tracked through TSA and Customs? SO much harder than buying a gun.

 

A good point I read elsewhere:

 

It's harder for me to get f***ing cold medicine than it is to get guns and ammo in some states.

[Jenksismyhero]

Then whydoes the US constantly have one of the highest homicides rates of civilized first world countries? The UK and Europe overall have about 25% of the homicide rate. WHy is that?

 

Gangs. Seriously, that's the answer. No other country has the number of gangs and gang members as the US. It's a small, incredibly violent, group of people in our society. I've looked before but couldn't find a study that looks at homicide rates in non-gang related shootings. I bet it's still higher than the rest of the world, but that number of gun related homicides shrinks to a much more comparable figure.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

Dude...there's an estimated well over 300,000,000 firearms in America. How on earth do you get them all? Not gonna happen. I'm a law abiding gun owner...and proud of it and carry daily. Have always been under the idea of: "Rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it...".

 

Where's the outrage at the number of drunk driving deaths each year which hover around 12,000?

There has been a decades-long campaign against drunk driving with ever-stricter requirements and penalties.

[Jenksismyhero]

Dude...there's an estimated well over 300,000,000 firearms in America. How on earth do you get them all? Not gonna happen. I'm a law abiding gun owner...and proud of it and carry daily. Have always been under the idea of: "Rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it...".

 

Where's the outrage at the number of drunk driving deaths each year which hover around 12,000?

 

Because they're generally one or maybe a handful of people involved, and it happens so frequently it's another blip on the news. A gunman killing 30 people happens every few years, and gets much more airtime.

[Wanne]

Gangs. Seriously, that's the answer. No other country has the number of gangs and gang members as the US. It's a small, incredibly violent, group of people in our society. I've looked before but couldn't find a study that looks at homicide rates in non-gang related shootings. I bet it's still higher than the rest of the world, but that number of gun related homicides shrinks to a much more comparable figure.

 

Don't disagree one bit...and I'm sure ALL of those gang members would abide by any gun control laws that would be put in place.

[StrangeSox]

Gangs. Seriously, that's the answer. No other country has the number of gangs and gang members as the US. It's a small, incredibly violent, group of people in our society. I've looked before but couldn't find a study that looks at homicide rates in non-gang related shootings. I bet it's still higher than the rest of the world, but that number of gun related homicides shrinks to a much more comparable figure.

 

If gangs have significantly less access to firearms...

[witesoxfan]

I think we're on the same page here, I was just devils-advocating it.

 

HOW COULD YOU RABBLERABBLERABBLE

 

But seriously, I do hate handguns.

[Jenksismyhero]

There has been a decades-long campaign against drunk driving with ever-stricter requirements and penalties.

 

But no one talks about banning alcohol.

[Wanne]

There has been a decades-long campaign against drunk driving with ever-stricter requirements and penalties.

 

with no bans on alcohol. If they were serious there'd be those interlock devices on all cars...

[StrangeSox]

Because they're generally one or maybe a handful of people involved, and it happens so frequently it's another blip on the news. A gunman killing 30 people happens every few years, and gets much more airtime.

 

If you set the limit at 30 dead, sure, but if you just include all mass shootings it's every couple of months, on average.

 

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/1...ince-columbine/

[StrangeSox]

with no bans on alcohol. If they were serious there'd be those interlock devices on all cars...

there have been a huge number of restrictions on drunk driving over the past several decades in response to the tragedies caused by drunk driving.

 

the opposite is pretty much true with gun laws. we cannot have a sane conversation in this country about guns thanks to groups like the NRA.

[Jenksismyhero]

If gangs have significantly less access to firearms...

 

And around and around we go. They'd find other means of killing themselves and/or would buy up illegal guns. Would the number shrink? Maybe. I still don't see how that'd stop a gunman killing 30 people though.

 

[witesoxfan]

Just as with drugs or cars or slaves or widgets, if you decrease the supply and increase the price, you are going to decrease the number of consumers who will demand the product. There is no perfect solution, but the simplest solution is simply making it harder to access handguns. Guns will be less frequent in gangs, and these shootings will be less frequent. They will still happen because of the sheer number of guns in the United States.