Fiscal Cliff Discussion

[Texsox]

Whatever dude. It's not a cut if it stays the same. Quit lying... oh wait, Barackus Droids don't realize that it's all been a big lie from the beginning anyway.

 

Are you saying staying at the same level as before the Bush cuts or after the Bush era cuts?

 

And speaking of Barakus Droids, is that a new phrase that "Dittoheads" are suppose to use or something you made up?

 

 

[Jake]

I heard rush talking about that or maybe some other GOP boob on 890 AM a few weeks ago.

 

I don't try to listen to it, btw, its on at work. :/

 

 

You don't have to be ashamed, I often listen to conservative talk and FOX news as well as poking around Breitbart, the Blaze, etc. Don't live in an echo chamber is what I say.

[kapkomet]

Are you saying staying at the same level as before the Bush cuts or after the Bush era cuts?

 

And speaking of Barakus Droids, is that a new phrase that "Dittoheads" are suppose to use or something you made up?

 

I have no idea, I don't listen to any of it unless I'm trying to catch traffic reports.

[mr_genius]

And speaking of Barakus Droids, is that a new phrase that "Dittoheads" are suppose to use or something you made up?

 

I have never heard the term "Barakus Droids" on the Rush Limbaugh show.

[BigSqwert]

In discussing compromise, remember: Republicans lost the election

 

snippet:

 

What’s striking about McConnell’s rhetoric — and the calls for compromise writ large — is the extent to which they seem to operate in a vacuum. Neither McConnell, nor Boehner, nor Schultz (or similar-minded people at organizations such as Fix the Debt) have acknowledged one key fact about the current situation: That it comes just a month after a presidential election, where the incumbent won a solid victory after campaigning for a stronger safety net, tax increases on the rich and a “balanced” solution to deficit reduction.

 

“Both sides” don’t need to compromise. Rather, Republicans need to reconcile themselves to the fact that the public voted decisively against their policies, both in the presidential election and in congressional elections around the country, where Democrats won most open Senate seats and came away from House elections with a larger share of votes (which, due to redistricting and population movement, didn’t translate to a large gain in the chamber itself). The fiscal cliff shouldn’t be used to circumvent the clear preferences of the electorate.

[Jenksismyhero]

In discussing compromise, remember: Republicans lost the election

 

snippet:

 

Lol, seriously? 2 years ago I should have written the same article that Obama and the congressional democrats needed to abandon their political ideologies because the nation overwhelming supported the Tea Party movement. I'm sure you totally agree with that!

[Y2HH]

In discussing compromise, remember: Republicans lost the election

 

snippet:

 

Look at the ignorant, uninformed and just flat out stupid comments in response to that article from both sides.

 

Those comments highlight why it's impossible to have any sort of meaningful political discussion these days.

 

A thousand people in the street,

Singing songs and carrying signs,

Mostly saying, "Hooray for our side."

 

The more that things change...the more they stay the same.

[bmags]

The problem with the Republicans claiming compromise is that they can't deliver their sides votes in the house. They couldn't even pass a ridiculous bill aimed to pass among only republicans in the house. With that in mind, they are going to need heavy democratic support, so the idea that the democrats need to give 90 and them only 10 is delusional.

[pettie4sox]

This is going to suck for everyone but maybe just maybe this is the kick in the ass we need to realize that s*** needs to change.

 

That being said, how many of us middle class taxpayers will be really scrapping by with the tax increase? Will anyone be forced to go on the government tit?

 

The problem with the argument I hear from people is that we paid these rates prior to 2001 so it shouldn't be a problem. However, inflation has caused price increases to basic goods and I don't know about you, but my salary has been low or stagnant for the better part of a few years so there is no cost of living adjustment.

[Y2HH]

The problem with the Republicans claiming compromise is that they can't deliver their sides votes in the house. They couldn't even pass a ridiculous bill aimed to pass among only republicans in the house. With that in mind, they are going to need heavy democratic support, so the idea that the democrats need to give 90 and them only 10 is delusional.

 

The Republicans don't seem to realize it yet, but as it stands, their party is dead man walking. They need to step back, reevaluate what "center-right" actually means, start communicating this to the party and to the people...but changes need to be made internally.

 

The Democrats have their own problems, but as it stands, IMO, they're the more sane of the two parties at the moment...and this is coming from me.

[bmags]

The Republicans don't seem to realize it yet, but as it stands, their party is dead man walking. They need to step back, reevaluate what "center-right" actually means, start communicating this to the party and to the people...but changes need to be made internally.

 

The Democrats have their own problems, but as it stands, IMO, they're the more sane of the two parties at the moment...and this is coming from me.

 

I hope this is the end of the suicide pacts in washington. These austerity packages end up hurting real people while not doing much to the politicians elected. Matt Yglesias offered that instead of these cliff packages, the agreement should be that the speaker of the house, senate leader, etc get kicked in the nuts if they don't come to an agreement. It makes more sense.

 

However, I do kind of enjoy how we have this huge austerity package to dramatically reduce the debt. And suddenly this "serious" washington clique that has claimed the debt is the country's biggest problem, is falling over themselves to prevent it because it will hurt the economy. Stupid is as stupid does.

[Balta1701]

This is going to suck for everyone but maybe just maybe this is the kick in the ass we need to realize that s*** needs to change.

 

That being said, how many of us middle class taxpayers will be really scrapping by with the tax increase? Will anyone be forced to go on the government tit?

 

The problem with the argument I hear from people is that we paid these rates prior to 2001 so it shouldn't be a problem. However, inflation has caused price increases to basic goods and I don't know about you, but my salary has been low or stagnant for the better part of a few years so there is no cost of living adjustment.

The real problem is...if you take $3000 out of the pocket of the average middle class taxpayer, that's $3000 less they have to spend this year...which is $2000 or so less they actually do spend, which winds up knocking a lot of people back out of work and pushing the country back into recession.

 

It's not the household teetering on the edge that this impacts heavily; there are programs to help with that, and if they're teetering on the edge right now, there's more going on (job loss or poor financial decisions or health care costs).

[Balta1701]

I hope this is the end of the suicide pacts in washington. These austerity packages end up hurting real people while not doing much to the politicians elected. Matt Yglesias offered that instead of these cliff packages, the agreement should be that the speaker of the house, senate leader, etc get kicked in the nuts if they don't come to an agreement. It makes more sense.

 

However, I do kind of enjoy how we have this huge austerity package to dramatically reduce the debt. And suddenly this "serious" washington clique that has claimed the debt is the country's biggest problem, is falling over themselves to prevent it because it will hurt the economy. Stupid is as stupid does.

These suicide pacts are doing great for the people out to force cutbacks in everything. Just look at the offers that have been put on the table, including large Social Security cuts, spending cuts on everything, etc.

[Cknolls]

People are deluding themselves if they believe Washington is going to cut the deficit. It has not happened, is not happening, and will never happen. Current day Washington is Illinois and Cali 5-10 years ago. The current gov't is unsustainable. Sadly, it will be a few years before people realize it. I say let NARCISSUS have whatever he wants. Without blowing up the Budget Control Act this problem only festers and grows.

[bmags]

Prove it.

[Balta1701]

Prove it.

He might actually be right in one sense.

 

A minority which has no interest in governing, gains a minority large enough to prevent budgetary agreements from passing due to supermajority requirements, and uses that power to protect the wealthiest stakeholders to the point that they're willing to sacrifice the credit-worthiness of the state itself...

 

sounds an awful lot like what happened to California to me.

[bmags]

You can only be serious about "reducing the deficit" if you plan on doing it with cuts only. Generating revenue and cuts? That's a god damn pipe dream.

[NorthSideSox72]

Looks like we're going over.

 

Also looks like a solution to hit the big stuff will be done pretty quickly after, though.

 

Forgetting what side I'm on with any one of the many cliffs coming up and/or their solutions (income tax rates, high and low earners, UE benefits, Doc Fix, AMT fix, Farm Bill, defense cuts, social security changes, medicare changes, discretionary spending cuts, tuition and child tax credits, etc.)... I am embarrased for our elected officials right now. And it is NOT the system, per se, that is the problem - it is the people elected to run said system. It is just 100%, outright unprofessional and a stunning failure on their parts. They are acting like addicts - even when they set a deadline for themselves that results in a severe beating if they can't get it done, they STILL can't get it done.

 

Now the partisan bits...

 

Democrats continue to be in denial of the impact of overspending, and Republicans continue to be in denial of the reality that compromise is not a sin. The entry of the Tea Party crowd - once Libertarian and now mostly just an angry, incapable mob - was the straw that broke the camel's back. We were headed this way anyway, maybe, but the trajectory took a steeper dive due to their involvement in things. Maybe in the long run that is better, but for now, it sucks. And there is no guarantee that the impacts will result in longer term gains. Don't get me wrong, ObamaCo has plenty of blame here too, as does the Dem party as a whole.

 

Stick the President (not his advisors), and a few leaders of each party from each chamber (not THEIR advisors), in a room, with food, water, computers, pens and papers (and maybe a port-a-potty), and don't let them the f*** out until they have come to a solution on ALL the things in the cliff list I mentioned above. And not something for a year - I mean non-time-limited changes for all of it. That's what I'd love to see. Yes, I know that won't happen. I'm just pissed. Meantime, Joe Biden can keep the ship running, which should be motivation enough for all involved to get it done as quickly as humanly possible.

 

[Jake]

Fixing the debt is not about budgets, it's about jobs

 

It's not a spending problem, it's a low taxes and high spending problem --- Likewise, taxes are not at historic highs

 

And...once again...Medicare costs aren't going up as expected?

 

 

[Balta1701]

Nss, haven't you been one of the many saying how terrible, awful the deficit is and how we need to solve tht immediately because of the imminent enormous inflation spike that was supposed to happen in 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012?

 

The fiscal cliff gets rid of the deficit.

 

The biggest problem with the fiscal cliff is the deficit rapidly shrinks in the middle of a minor depression. But anyone who has complained about the deficit...should have very little problem with this.

 

And finally...you accuse me of denial about "overspending". Yet you ignore the fact that spending has gone up over the past presidents term by the lowest admount in decades and the yearly deficit has shrunk more rapidly since 2009 than at any point since 1946.

 

Anyone who is not in denial about the long term budget will talk about health care costs growing at 8% a year, because if Medicare grows at 5% a year, it eats up the entire budget...at a time when 50% of our economy is health care costs. The PPACA bought us maybe a 5-10 year delay, but that is literally the entire long term budget gap (assuming we can get back to 6% unemployment).

[Balta1701]

Some sort of deal about to be announced according to Cooper.

[Jake]

Passes through the Senate. Expected to reach House tomorrow morning.

[farmteam]

This kind of stuff drives me nuts. Democrats do it too; this happens to be a GOP example because that's what I stumbled upon in this article.

 

In the House, GOP sources said earlier Monday that there's little practical difference in settling the issue Monday night versus Tuesday. But if tax-averse House Republicans approve the bill on Tuesday -- when taxes have technically gone up -- they can argue they've voted for a tax cut to bring rates back down, even after just a few hours, GOP sources said. That could bring some more Republicans on board, one source said.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/01/politics/fis...edmn_topstories

[Texsox]

I love it. Excellent work so far from what I am reading. Not nearly enough to fix the long term budget issues, but a nice step in the right direction. I also like how they gave political cover to some members.

[Balta1701]

I love it. Excellent work so far from what I am reading. Not nearly enough to fix the long term budget issues, but a nice step in the right direction. I also like how they gave political cover to some members.

Hate it. We're going to be in a worse boat in 2 months because this didn't cover the debt ceiling.

 

Jumping from one crisis to another because Congress votes for laws that create crises is literally insane.