Eminor3rd Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel is lefty DH that can fake LF but shouldn't. He's basically a worse version of Dunn. We already have Dunn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Markakis has rated below average in RF each of the past three years after being good the three years previous. I'm not sure he hasn't lost a step and become a scratch or worse defender. I do like the OBP though -- his defense has dragged his WAR down since 2009. He's been basically an average major leaguer since then. Weird. Edit: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=OF Edited December 23, 2012 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel? HELL No. I can't believe some people wouldn't mind trading for him. The only way I would ever want the Sox to get him is if he was included with some other really nice player and they received him as a stopgap. He's not an improvement to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 01:09 AM) Kubel? HELL No. I can't believe some people wouldn't mind trading for him. The only way I would ever want the Sox to get him is if he was included with some other really nice player and they received him as a stopgap. He's not an improvement to the Sox. I agree if the Sox wanted Kubel that much they could have signed him in as a FA last off-season. He wasn't even that expensive as there wasn't a whole lot of interest. I think he signed something like 3 Years and $27M with AZ last winter. Now the sox want him all of a sudden and are willing to give up a significant piece of their everyday lineup to get him. Im calling BS on that. The only thing the sox would be interested in doing would be adding to their lineup without giving up significant everyday players, except for Floyd that is. A trade package around Floyd + Others the team would like to move (Thornton, Viciedo) for either Upton or Markakis makes a heck of a lot more sense than some asinine Ramirez for Kubel deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Again if dunn weren't here la Roche would be the target. I'm not the fondest of Lexi but he's worth more than kubel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel could be had for maybe a bullpen arm. It won't take much. Axelrod plus a lower level prospect. But I view that as the beginning point of deals, certainly not the end. With a supposed decent market for Gavin, this is the year he's traded. I could see the Sox going for Markakis around a package of Floyd and Viciedo. That would mean two OFer's going in deals. Probably Rios if they could land Nick. They could sell high on Rios with a consistent bat like Markakis in order to get near major league ready talent, something the sox are sorely lacking, esp. position players. The sox get an injury or two in a few keys spots-SS esp., and they have few options to go to. The same question will come up, why trade Dayan? I think it's all about getting consistent, steady production, getting on base, and diversifying a RH heavy lineup. Right now, SS, 2b and C are not consistent spots, with low avg. and OBP. 3b is a question as well. LF with Dayan also. Yet he could also bring back the greatest return. The sox aren't in a position where they can just stand still. Rios and Dunn could easily fall back and the Sox would be in a huge hole. Standing pat won't be enough to overtake let alone be competitive with the Tigers. They need to take some calculated risks to get some proven talent in, along with acquiring some new talent that is near ready for the bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I know the Sox have been linked with Kubel, but the sox could use a guy like AJ Pollock. Even though he's a RH bat, the sox need a young hitter like him. He may not start 2013. But could be ready if anyone went down. But if the sox got more LH bats, then a young, RH hitting OF who could play all 3 spots would be an ideal get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurt35 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I hope the Sox can make a trade for Granderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 12:53 AM) Kubel is lefty DH that can fake LF but shouldn't. He's basically a worse version of Dunn. We already have Dunn. If the point is to replace AJ's numbers better to take a flier om Hafner and play Dunn/Viciedo in left than trade for Kubel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I don't see the Orioles trading Markakis. He, Jones, and Wieters are the collective face of the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 03:23 PM) If the point is to replace AJ's numbers better to take a flier om Hafner and play Dunn/Viciedo in left than trade for Kubel. both are poor options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Those of you who think Kubel is worth nothing or not an upgrade to this lineup/team don't know anything about him, so why don't you come up with other ideas and stop talking about someone you obviously know nothing about. Kubel signed for 2 years/16 million, so hes got $8 mil this year and a reasonable team option for '14. He batted .253/30/90 in a struggling light hitting lineup in AZ. I watched plenty of Dbacks games, he was all they had. Upton was a joke, Young was hurt, and Goldy slumped most of the season. Pitchers pitched around him, but as aggressive as he is, he swung at some junk because that's all he was getting and he had to do something for that offense. He's only 30. Does everyone forget that he hit .300/28/103 in 2009 w the twins and killed us? What about his down year in 2010 when he hit .249/21/92? Or his one injury plagued season in 2011 when he only played 99 games and still hit .273/12/58? He is an underappreciated hitter. If he played for a team in contention with some protection last season he could have easily hit .300/40/120. Nick Swisher just got 4/52 with the indians. He sucks. Kubel fits well in US Cellular and on our team, assuming we don't move major pieces to get him. Here's why... Although his defense is below average, he can play the corner OF spots well enough and he can DH. We have a lefty power DH you say. Well, he can barely bat his weight in a good season and needs time off when he is struggling and at least once a week against a LHP he has no chance against. We need more LH hitting in the lineup, tank and rios struggle against RHP. There's at least a game a week each they could use off. We have an all of a sudden somewhat injury prone 1b in Paul. He goes down from time to time and needs days off. Dunn to 1b and Kubel to DH. There's at least 4 games a week we could use Kubel. An injury of Konerko, Dunn, Tank, or Rios makes him a staple every day player. We do not want to trade Alexi for him, as we can't create a hole there. But if we can get him for bullpen or prospects, he is a no-brainer to me and anyone with any baseball sense that has knowledge of the player he is/our team as it is. He makes our lineup powerful enough to contend with Detroit, even with an injury to one of our hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 ^ You honestly think's Kubel BA would have jumped 47 points with better protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 QUOTE (Sox1 @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 08:27 AM) I hope the Sox can make a trade for Granderson He is not getting traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ultimate Champion Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 06:51 AM) Kubel could be had for maybe a bullpen arm. It won't take much. Axelrod plus a lower level prospect. But I view that as the beginning point of deals, certainly not the end. With a supposed decent market for Gavin, this is the year he's traded. I could see the Sox going for Markakis around a package of Floyd and Viciedo. That would mean two OFer's going in deals. Probably Rios if they could land Nick. They could sell high on Rios with a consistent bat like Markakis in order to get near major league ready talent, something the sox are sorely lacking, esp. position players. The sox get an injury or two in a few keys spots-SS esp., and they have few options to go to. The same question will come up, why trade Dayan? I think it's all about getting consistent, steady production, getting on base, and diversifying a RH heavy lineup. Right now, SS, 2b and C are not consistent spots, with low avg. and OBP. 3b is a question as well. LF with Dayan also. Yet he could also bring back the greatest return. The sox aren't in a position where they can just stand still. Rios and Dunn could easily fall back and the Sox would be in a huge hole. Standing pat won't be enough to overtake let alone be competitive with the Tigers. They need to take some calculated risks to get some proven talent in, along with acquiring some new talent that is near ready for the bigs. Axelrod lands no one with a pulse. Reed for Kubel straight-up is a pretty fair deal; Jones + a halfway decent spect is also fair. Kubel is a good lefty bat under control for 2 years at a reasonable salary. He has value. If Dayan and Floyd went to Baltimore there would have to be a hell of a lot more coming back than Markakis. If Dayan is on the block it is IMO because the organization doesn't want to commit a possible large future salary to a LF who isn't a true #3/#4 hitter. He's getting paid now so if he's not in the 3-5 year plan then make the deal if you get the right return. You take back prospects though, with very high ceilings, and/or Beckham-like players who are still young, talented, and may need a change of scenery. Short-term high salary players shouldn't be on the table in any Viciedo deal unless we're taking on a contract in order to land better prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel or Upton fron the D-Backs. But, if AZ is asking for Ramirez I say forget it. I don't see trading a strength to fill a perceived hole. You don't really do anything except weaken yourself at one position to get stronger at another. I would also look at Upton before Kubel rehardless of Kubel being a left handed bat. Upton is younger, has mor speed and is a better fielder. If you acquire another outfielder who goes from the exisiting complement? De Aza? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel doesn't fill a hole on this team unless we can have two DH's or play a rover in the OF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yes, Kubel was hitting .300 over halfway through the year before a bad last few months. if he had protection from the get go he would have hit higher than .300 the first part and not had as bad if any falling off the second half if the team was in contention, too. If you don't think there's any chance Tank, Dunn, Rios, or Konerko get hurt or slump badly then yes, Kubel does not fill a hole. And you are the guy who plays video games with injuries off and baseball seasons with 81 games. It's a long season to have no backup plan for those 4...Kubel gives us good depth and our lineup a big boost whenever he plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel spent most of the season hitting in front of Goldschmidt, as well as at least 10 games in front of either Montero or Hill. All three players had a higher wOBA than Kubel. To say with better protection Kubel would have easily hit .300 with 40 HRs and 120 RBIs (something that has been done once in baseball since 2010) is preposterous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) If you watched that DBacks team this past season you would know how silly everything you just said sounds and realize I am right. I know the numbers sound crazy, but ask anyone who watched the Dbacks last year and they will tell you hitting .050 higher with an extra 10 hrs and 30 rbis was definitely possible. He was hitting .298 July 26th before the slide started. 90 games in. He had only 18 RBIs after July 25th, with 72 RBIs in the first 90 games. He had only 8 HRs after July 26th, with 22 HRs in the first 90 games. 90 games is a pretty good sample size, so he was on pace to hit around .300 sustaining the first 90 games. On pace to hit 128 RBIs sustaining that pace for 160 games. On pace to hit 39 HRs sustaining that pace for 160 games. With better protection that a slumping sophomore strike out king in Goldy, a streaky catcher for 10 games or whatever, and a super streaky hill for up to 10 games, or just keeping the pace he was at, he hits .300/39/128... Edited December 23, 2012 by rowand's rowdies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Also consider what you have to give up to get that "depth". Kubel has been a 1-2 win player historically, so assume that continues going forward. Do you trade a 24 year old with big time talent before his second season, or a pitcher who will likely be worth 2-3 wins in the coming season? Or something else? If so, what's the future cost there? I don't think the cost justifies the return in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Paul Konerko would have kept up his .400 pace if it weren't for Orlando Hudson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Kubel doesn't fill a hole on this team unless we can have two DH's or play a rover in the OF If the Sox get Kubel, then they are likely going to trade Viciedo, Rios, or maybe even Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 12:44 PM) If the Sox get Kubel, then they are likely going to trade Viciedo, Rios, or maybe even Konerko. Trading any one of those guys and replacing them with Kubel is a downgrade. Viciedo's value is in the future. He's only 23. He is most likely going to get better. Rios and Konerko are WAY better than Kubel ever will be. And this is coming from someone that despises Rios and wants him moved. If the Sox get Kubel, they better have another trade lined up that nets them one hell of a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Hurt35 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 How about we trade Tank to Oakland for Reddick? It will give us the LH bat while Tank could be reunited with his friend Cespedes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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