chw42 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) 1. Who cares? 2. Thats not true I think a lot of people on this board absolutely despise Jason Kubel. But that's beside the point. One, you're talking about acquiring another guy who is basically a DH. We already have 1.5 of those in Dunn and Konerko. Two, if you plan on playing him in the outfield, he better be 2008 Carlos Quentin, because he is straight up bad in the OF. Three, he'll never be 2008 Carlos Quentin because he's got a career OPS under .800. His last season was also incredibly inconsistent and he didn't hit all that well on the road. Not to mention he's more or less a platoon player with how well he hits righties vs. lefties. Jason Kubel doesn't make this team better if he's replacing Alex Rios (he makes it a lot worse in fact) and he doesn't even make it better by replacing Dayan Viciedo. Unless he can play 3B and play 3B well (or catcher), he's not a good acquisition for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 12:27 PM) I think a lot of people on this board absolutely despise Jason Kubel. But that's beside the point. One, you're talking about acquiring another guy who is basically a DH. We already have 1.5 of those in Dunn and Konerko. Two, if you plan on playing him in the outfield, he better be 2008 Carlos Quentin, because he is straight up bad in the OF. Three, he'll never be 2008 Carlos Quentin because he's got a career OPS under .800. His last season was also incredibly inconsistent and he didn't hit all that well on the road. Not to mention he's more or less a platoon player with how well he hits righties vs. lefties. Jason Kubel doesn't make this team better if he's replacing Alex Rios (he makes it a lot worse in fact) and he doesn't even make it better by replacing Dayan Viciedo. Unless he can play 3B and play 3B well (or catcher), he's not a good acquisition for this team. I think he would be replacing Rios. Your options are limited when it comes to LH bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 12:31 PM) I think he would be replacing Rios. Your options are limited when it comes to LH bats. The absolute best scenario I see in any acquisition with Kubel involved is if we send Floyd to Arizona and get Kubel back. Then we platoon Kubel with Viciedo. Viciedo mashes lefties, Kubel mashes righties. That could be an awesome platoon. I can handle Kubel in two out of every three games in left field. But if Kubel replaces Rios, I'm going to puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) No. I f***ing hate that guy. Plus he's not that good. Yep, his OPS was .150 higher at home than on the road last year. Regardless, he's a very average offensive player who can't play defense and is not an upgrade for our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 12:35 PM) The absolute best scenario I see in any acquisition with Kubel involved is if we send Floyd to Arizona and get Kubel back. Then we platoon Kubel with Viciedo. Viciedo mashes lefties, Kubel mashes righties. That could be an awesome platoon. I can handle Kubel in two out of every three games in left field. But if Kubel replaces Rios, I'm going to puke. Yeah your scenario works out pretty well actually. Dont see that happening though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) Yeah your scenario works out pretty well actually. Dont see that happening though. I'd rather dump Viciedo than platoon him. He's a sub-25 year old player who we're trying to develop, taking away 2/3 of his at bats might win the team an extra game or two next year, but it's going to hinder him maxing out his ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 George Ofman @georgeofman Here are Kubel's numbers at the cell. 133 AB,.270, 14HR, 41RBI. Triple the ABs and see what you get. https://twitter.com/georgeofman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 01:08 PM) I'd rather dump Viciedo than platoon him. He's a sub-25 year old player who we're trying to develop, taking away 2/3 of his at bats might win the team an extra game or two next year, but it's going to hinder him maxing out his ability. Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) George Ofman @georgeofman Here are Kubel's numbers at the cell. 133 AB,.270, 14HR, 41RBI. Triple the ABs and see what you get. https://twitter.com/georgeofman Hooray sample sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) George Ofman @georgeofman Here are Kubel's numbers at the cell. 133 AB,.270, 14HR, 41RBI. Triple the ABs and see what you get. https://twitter.com/georgeofman How would he get 400 ABs at home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 01:28 PM) George Ofman @georgeofman Here are Kubel's numbers at the cell. 133 AB,.270, 14HR, 41RBI. Triple the ABs and see what you get. https://twitter.com/georgeofman Because he will be facing Sox pitching if the Sox trade for him, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 01:30 PM) Hooray sample sizes. Yep just thought it was interesting. I think this is all academic anyway. Dont see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 01:31 PM) Because he will be facing Sox pitching if the Sox trade for him, right? yep that certainly one of the problems with his argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I see we're already discussing Kubel here....AZ wouldn't want to take on another OFer and I'm not sure they'd want another SP so a Tank or Floyd trade probably wouldn't work.... They may want Lexi, and depending on how the Sox view Sanchez I think I'd do that. Flip Tank for an upgrade at 3B/2B/SS/C and then call it an offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 @DKnobler now saying: White Sox have talked about Kubel. Also had talks about Upton earlier in winter, when Diamondbacks asked about Alexei Ramirez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) @DKnobler now saying: White Sox have talked about Kubel. Also had talks about Upton earlier in winter, when Diamondbacks asked about Alexei Ramirez. There ya go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Once again depending on how the Sox view Sanchez I'd def make a Kubel for Ramirez trade. Then use Dayan to upgrade at 3B/SS/2B/C or SP then use Floyd to upgrade at one of those positions. In that scenario you all of a sudden go from 2 LH bats to 4 (Sanchez is a switch hitter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I can't imagine what we'd have to give up in addition to Ramirez for Upton. Ramirez, Thornton, Floyd, & Mitchell? Trade Floyd for prospects and include them with Ramirez and Thornton? Sure seems like we'll see some action soon. w00t w00t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) Once again depending on how the Sox view Sanchez I'd def make a Kubel for Ramirez trade. Then use Dayan to upgrade at 3B/SS/2B/C or SP then use Floyd to upgrade at one of those positions. In that scenario you all of a sudden go from 2 LH bats to 4 (Sanchez is a switch hitter). Of course, my problem with this is...it's an incredibly difficult set of trades to pull off. You add Kubel, suddenly everyone knows the Sox are going to be forced to move an OF and find a SS. There not only has to be the 2nd and 3rd deals available, you have to be able to pull them off without having the price change. 3 way deals are hard enough, this one is set up requiring basically a 4 way deal. Otherwise, you have 3 consecutive trades you need to pull off. If it could be done it might work...but it's so complex it's hard to fathom it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 04:18 PM) Of course, my problem with this is...it's an incredibly difficult set of trades to pull off. You add Kubel, suddenly everyone knows the Sox are going to be forced to move an OF and find a SS. There not only has to be the 2nd and 3rd deals available, you have to be able to pull them off without having the price change. 3 way deals are hard enough, this one is set up requiring basically a 4 way deal. Otherwise, you have 3 consecutive trades you need to pull off. If it could be done it might work...but it's so complex it's hard to fathom it happening. I'm game with giving SS to Sanchez if they can't find anything else. We're already giving Flowers a chance to prove himself so why not Sanchez who's shown he can hit in the minors. Really all you'd have to do is find a trade partner for Dayan ahead of time (I'm sure there's been discussions). You don't HAVE to trade Floyd unless they get back a SP in the Dayan trade. Edited December 22, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 04:24 PM) I'm game with giving SS to Sanchez if they can't find anything else. We're already giving Flowers a chance to prove himself so why not Sanchez who's shown he can hit in the minors. Really all you'd have to do is find a trade partner for Dayan ahead of time (I'm sure there's been discussions). You don't HAVE to trade Floyd unless they get back a SP in the Dayan trade. Keep in mind, Sanchez is a 20 year old who has spent less than 1/2 a season above A ball. He's played less than 100 games at SS in the minors. I get the scheme here, but this isn't a setup that's going to make us better this year. You make that deal if you're getting something back that really helps long term and you can use Kubel to fill in the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) Once again depending on how the Sox view Sanchez I'd def make a Kubel for Ramirez trade. Then use Dayan to upgrade at 3B/SS/2B/C or SP then use Floyd to upgrade at one of those positions. In that scenario you all of a sudden go from 2 LH bats to 4 (Sanchez is a switch hitter). Yuck on Alexei for Kubel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 03:45 PM) Yuck on Alexei for Kubel. Way to make a hole on the infield when we technically have no holes in the outfield. Plus, I don't think AZ wants Ramirez anymore. They didn't even want Asdrubal Cabrera. They got their man in Gregorius. Edited December 22, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 04:45 PM) Yuck on Alexei for Kubel. QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 22, 2012 -> 04:46 PM) Way to make a hole on the infield when we technically have no holes in the outfield. Plus, I don't think AZ wants Ramirez anymore. They didn't even want Asdrubal Cabrera. They got their man in Gregorius. Well once again, I said depending on how the Sox view Sanchez. I don't follow the minors close enough to know whether or not he's ready, I just remember hearing he had an awesome year and some rumblings that he may be considered for a spot in the lineup this coming up year. AZ is pretty well stacked everywhere else, they don't need an OFer or SPs so that's the only logical trade I can think of. Looks like they can use Thornton but I don't think a package around him would be enough. Thornton+ for Parra?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Well on mlbtraderumors, it also states that there has been discussions around Justin Upton for Alexei and others. I would jump all over this. Trade Rios+ Thornton. End up saving money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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