Sox seeking LH bat

[ZionrulZ]

I really hate how truly lazy it is to suggest trading people for "Good prospects!". Come on, if you can't do the work to tell me a team that could take the player on you're trying to trade, and what they'd be willing to give up...just stop. It's not an idea if you don't have an idea.

I said "if"! I don't know who they could get; I don't know who they'd want.

 

Again, the point of my postings is, that I believe an owner of a sports franchise owes it to his fan base to field the absolute best team possible, (present) and/or to put his team in position to do so (future). By not re-signing AJ when the "jury is still out" on Flowers does not do this, IMO. With re. Konerko, his (trade) value may never be higher than it is right now. If you don't think the Sox can contend with the Tigers, Jays, Yankees, Angels, Rangers, A's, etc., in 2013 (as the roster stands on 12/26/2012, I do not think they can!), it's most probable that Konerko won't be around when the Sox will be able to contend.

 

Does this make any sense?

[witesoxfan]

Like Tyler Flowers?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Perhaps.

[witesoxfan]

I said "if"! I don't know who they could get; I don't know who they'd want.

 

Again, the point of my postings is, that I believe an owner of a sports franchise owes it to his fan base to field the absolute best team possible, (present) and/or to put his team in position to do so (future). By not re-signing AJ when the "jury is still out" on Flowers does not do this, IMO. With re. Konerko, his (trade) value may never be higher than it is right now. If you don't think the Sox can contend with the Tigers, Jays, Yankees, Angels, Rangers, A's, etc., in 2013 (as the roster stands on 12/26/2012, I do not think they can!), it's most probable that Konerko won't be around when the Sox will be able to contend.

 

Does this make any sense?

 

So how are you ever going to know if Tyler Flowers can be the catcher for the future if you don't ever run him out there as a full-time starter?

 

I assure you that people understand why the idea of AJ coming back was appealing, but at some point in time, you have to let Flowers sink or swim.

[ZionrulZ]

So how are you ever going to know if Tyler Flowers can be the catcher for the future if you don't ever run him out there as a full-time starter?

 

I assure you that people understand why the idea of AJ coming back was appealing, but at some point in time, you have to let Flowers sink or swim.

Flowers never put up great numbers as a full time player in the minors, did he?

[Balta1701]

I said "if"! I don't know who they could get; I don't know who they'd want.

 

Again, the point of my postings is, that I believe an owner of a sports franchise owes it to his fan base to field the absolute best team possible, (present) and/or to put his team in position to do so (future). By not re-signing AJ when the "jury is still out" on Flowers does not do this, IMO. With re. Konerko, his (trade) value may never be higher than it is right now. If you don't think the Sox can contend with the Tigers, Jays, Yankees, Angels, Rangers, A's, etc., in 2013 (as the roster stands on 12/26/2012, I do not think they can!), it's most probable that Konerko won't be around when the Sox will be able to contend.

 

Does this make any sense?

Here's my problem. When you say "they should consider trading player x for prospects", it's a game you can play with every single good player on the roster. Every team, every player, you could say "they should trade player x for prospects".

 

The real problem is in actually finding a match. You can't fail to do the hard work and then pretend you've suggested anything useful.

 

Paul Konerko is a 37 year old, RH batter, who benefits from the DH position, with power, under contract for 1 year, with a >$10 million salary. For a team to take him on, they need to be: ready to compete this year, have a weakness at 1b, have money to spend, need RH power, have no young guy they'd be willing to risk at 1b, and have a solid prospect to give up. Oh, and throw in the fact that Konerko has 10/5 rights and can veto a trade, so it has to be a city where Konerko would be willing to go.

 

I'm not sure I can think of a single team that's a match for most of those. I can give you a couple "Maybe's", but that's about it.

 

The hard work in suggesting trading a guy is coming up with a match that makes sense on all those issues. Otherwise, there's no reason to even offer the suggestion. As you said, it's the GM's job to put the best team on the field, and if you can't find that trading partner, then you're asking the team to give the guy up for nothing, which we don't need to do.

[bigruss]

Flowers never put up great numbers as a full time player in the minors, did he?

Instead of assuming the worst for every current Sox player, why don't you go look up the stats yourself? It's been said here a lot already, Flowers put up some really good numbers in the minors.

[Kyyle23]

Flowers never put up great numbers as a full time player in the minors, did he?

 

Well, are you certain of this, or are you asking everyone else?

[Balta1701]

Flowers never put up great numbers as a full time player in the minors, did he?

How do you define great numbers? From the catcher's spot, consecutive years with OPS of .921 and .939 moving from high A ball up to AAA is pretty close.

 

The underlying problem beneath those numbers has been strikeouts, which makes you wonder whether he'll project or not. But those are pretty great numbers over a 2 year stretch.

[witesoxfan]

Flowers never put up great numbers as a full time player in the minors, did he?

 

You tell me

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=flower001tyl

[ZionrulZ]

Instead of assuming the worst for every current Sox player, why don't you go look up the stats yourself? It's been said here a lot already, Flowers put up some really good numbers in the minors.

Here are his minor league numbers...Flowers was a 33rd round draft choice in 2005.

 

 

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB K BA OBP SLG OPS TB TB GDP HBP SF IBB

6 Seasons 535 2233 1852 307 510 133 7 80 315 18 12 324 519 .275 .391 .484 .876 897 40 38 4 15 10

 

 

These are serviceable (not spectacular) numbers.

 

I really hope I'm wrong about him, and that he flourishes as a starter.

[ZionrulZ]

How do you define great numbers? From the catcher's spot, consecutive years with OPS of .921 and .939 moving from high A ball up to AAA is pretty close.

 

The underlying problem beneath those numbers has been strikeouts, which makes you wonder whether he'll project or not. But those are pretty great numbers over a 2 year stretch.

Hasn't he struck out pretty often for the Sox (albeit in a small sample size) already?

[bigruss]

Here are his minor league numbers...Flowers was a 33rd round draft choice in 2005.

 

 

G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB K BA OBP SLG OPS TB TB GDP HBP SF IBB

6 Seasons 535 2233 1852 307 510 133 7 80 315 18 12 324 519 .275 .391 .484 .876 897 40 38 4 15 10

 

 

These are serviceable (not spectacular) numbers.

 

I really hope I'm wrong about him, and that he flourishes as a starter.

Career in minors: .876 OPS

 

AJ topped that once in his career, in Rookie ball.

[ZionrulZ]

Career in minors: .876 OPS

 

AJ topped that once in his career, in Rookie ball.

But AJ proved his value in MLB. Flowers has not done so as of yet.

[Balta1701]

Hasn't he struck out pretty often for the Sox (albeit in a small sample size) already?

Yes and he should.

 

The difference for a guy like him might be pretty small though. If he strikes out >200 times a year, he might well just be a guy you can't afford to have in the lineup. If he strikes out 150 times per year, he might well be hitting 30 home runs a year and giving Adam Dunn type production out of the catcher's spot. His strikeout rates in the minors would put him in that range...where he winds up and whether he can learn to make just a bit more contact with time could be the difference between a backup and an all star.

[bigruss]

But AJ proved his value in MLB. Flowers has not done so as of yet.

In 15 years, AJ is a 96 OPS+ hitter, meaning he's below average. AJ was a solid catcher, that shouldn't be discounted, but we're not even losing a perennial All star at the position.

 

[witesoxfan]

But AJ proved his value in MLB. Flowers has not done so as of yet.

 

And has never been given the opportunity to do so. AJ was.

[bigruss]

And has never been given the opportunity to do so. AJ was.

Fact is, unless you have a payroll of $200m +, than you'll have to fill out wholes with younger players. And that means taking risks with them.

 

The Sox just need to make sure they have more depth at key positions next year.

[Balta1701]

Fact is, unless you have a payroll of $200m +, than you'll have to fill out wholes with younger players. And that means taking risks with them.

 

The Sox just need to make sure they have more depth at key positions next year.

With how the OF and the bullpen are developing, I think we have plenty of depth at most key positions.

 

I don't think our problem is lack of depth. I think our problem is lack of plausible stars.

[bigruss]

With how the OF and the bullpen are developing, I think we have plenty of depth at most key positions.

 

I don't think our problem is lack of depth. I think our problem is lack of plausible stars.

I think we need a solid UT, backup 3b, and another reliever (especially if they trade MT).

 

I fully expect them to try and add a big bat as well.

[TaylorStSox]

The legend of AJ knows no bounds. The other day, somebody took a shot at Flowers by calling him another Karkovice. Statistically, AJ was no Karkovice.

[Buehrle>Wood]

But AJ proved his value in MLB. Flowers has not done so as of yet.

Flowers has no value, outside of being a decent backup for half a season.

[Dick Allen]

The legend of AJ knows no bounds. The other day, somebody took a shot at Flowers by calling him another Karkovice. Statistically, AJ was no Karkovice.

 

Karkovice was basically a back up catcher. He caught 1000 innings once in his career. His entire value was his defense, and Flowers isn't anywhere near Karkovice defensively.

[TaylorStSox]

Karkovice was basically a back up catcher. He caught 1000 innings once in his career. His entire value was his defense, and Flowers isn't anywhere near Karkovice defensively.

He managed to produce a higher WAR than AJ. WAR doesn't account for grinderism though.

[Dick Allen]

He managed to produce a higher WAR than AJ. WAR doesn't account for grinderism though.

And fangraphs WAR is the end all. Instead of standings, they should just add up all WARs and pass out trophies. The fact is if AJ hit .215 with a .275 OBP but threw out runners just like Karkovice used to, you would say he sucked. AJ was a good player for the Sox and had an impact far beyond numbers. The fact that he kept some of his back ups off the field alone should be appreciated.

[TaylorStSox]

And fangraphs WAR is the end all. Instead of standings, they should just add up all WARs and pass out trophies. The fact is if AJ hit .215 with a .275 OBP but threw out runners just like Karkovice used to, you would say he sucked. AJ was a good player for the Sox and had an impact far beyond numbers. The fact that he kept some of his back ups off the field alone should be appreciated.

WAR isn't the end all, but when your best attribute is in intangibles, you better be damn good defensively. AJ was mediocre to awful during his tenure.