Your 2013 Chicago White Sox lineup

[Princess Dye]

Not a terrifyingly powerful lineup? Compared to last year, they've subtracted Pierzynski, who hit a lot of HR, but replaced him with a guy who, if he can ever make contact, has every ability to match that HR production in flowers. Viciedo, Alexei, maybe Konerko if his bone chip has been dealt with, maybe Beckham if his head ever gets screwed on right, also have the ability to add in some HR. They got 15 HR out of third base last year, mostly by Youk, and instead replaced with the 9 HR hit by Keppinger, maybe down to 6-7 if he has a more normal year for him.

 

Those small decreases might be a problem...if we hadn't hit the 3rd most HR in the AL last year already. So we lose a few going from Youk to Kep...we also have a power upside, with Viciedo, Flowers, and the middle-infield capable of increasing HR.

 

If that's not a "terrifyingly powerful lineup", then Texas didn't have a terrifyingly powerful lineup last year either, since the Sox outhomered them by 11 last year.

 

 

This is relying on last year to repeat, and off years to bounce back.

 

We do this every year and it's never that easy. Most often times, you get, lets say, a Rios returning to earth and a different one has a production spike. And you cant reliably predict which ones will go up or down, so it's all hopefulness. Viciedo is such a total x-factor. You're making it sound like 25 hr is happening again as just a starting point. This is still a guy who is either going to be a hitting coach's pet project or a still wild unpredictable strongheaded dude every time he goes up there.

 

The eternal wait for Beckham to "screw his head on straight" makes me think....the screw is badly, permanently stripped. May be time to nail him to a wall, no less.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Jose Paniagua

[ZionrulZ]

I still have a feeling Kepp will be the 2B and Gordo dealt...

Maybe trade Beckham and Floyd and prospects for Chase Headley??? Probably have to throw in Viciedo too.

[Balta1701]

This is relying on last year to repeat, and off years to bounce back.

 

We do this every year and it's never that easy. Most often times, you get, lets say, a Rios returning to earth and a different one has a production spike. And you cant reliably predict which ones will go up or down, so it's all hopefulness. Viciedo is such a total x-factor. Who knows what effing column to put him in.

 

The eternal wait for Beckham to "screw his head on straight" makes me think....the screw is badly, permanently stripped. May be time to nail him to a wall, no less.

But take a look. We hit 211 home runs last year. We outhomered the Rangers. Yes, we lost AJ...but the guy replacing him is pretty darn powerful.

 

For a person to say "We're not a terrifyingly powerful lineup" basically means that he's projected them all to fall apart. Why he gets to do that while trying to be down on this team, I have no idea. Yes, some guys are likely to be down. Rios and Dunn might step back a bit on the power side, but we have a number of guys who can add to their numbers to make up for it.

 

It's just crazy to say this isn't a powerful team on paper. That's the one thing they're still really good at on paper.

[Balta1701]

Maybe trade Beckham and Floyd and prospects for Chase Headley??? Probably have to throw in Viciedo too.

Why on Earth would the Padres want either of those guys? To spend extra money on people who won't be with them a year from now? Floyd in particular is worth less than nothing to the Padres. They'd probably take him in exchange for nothing if the ChiSox paid 2/3 of his contract.

 

If you want to get Headley back for Floyd and Beckham, you need to add in Sale.

[Princess Dye]

It's just crazy to say this isn't a powerful team on paper. That's the one thing they're still really good at on paper.

 

Understood. With that stressed, I am on board.

 

This team is just so damn mercurial. Take Alexei. He showed his first two years he could succeed at working on different things (sacrificing walks for power, or the reverse). Then last year of course, he decided to sacrifice both. Yay

[witesoxfan]

Why on Earth would the Padres want either of those guys? To spend extra money on people who won't be with them a year from now? Floyd in particular is worth less than nothing to the Padres. They'd probably take him in exchange for nothing if the ChiSox paid 2/3 of his contract.

 

If you want to get Headley back for Floyd and Beckham, you need to add in Sale.

 

And the Sox won't deal Sale, as they shouldn't.

 

Any Headley talk is effectively pointless.

[Soxfest]

Why?

Why...............because it is not a lineup that would challenge Detroit in any way, shape or form as it is constructed today.

[Balta1701]

Why...............because it is not a lineup that would challenge Detroit in any way, shape or form as it is constructed today.

I'd believe that more if the Sox hadn't outscored Detroit last year. So whatever it was that made up those 3 games...it wasn't the offense. So somehow, the team that scored fewer runs won the division last year.

[Chicago White Sox]

The Sox were 7th in runs scored in all of baseball last year. 7 of the 9 starters are returning. Of the two spots with new starters, only catcher is a clear downgrade. The opening day ages for our current lineup is 29, 33, 33, 37, 32, 24, 31, 27, & 26.

 

So based on this info, we have one spot where we should definitely expect less production (catcher). We have another spot (1B), where age would suggest at least some regression and possibly a significant decline in production. We have four other guys at the tail-end of their primes, who have provided inconsistent production over recent years. Two of these guys are coming off great years, two are coming off below-average years. As a group, it's reasonable to expect them to be a little worse next year, but I wouldn't expect a significant decline overall.

 

So the question becomes how much better will Viciedo, De Aza, & Beckham be next year and can Flowers exceed expectations? Can these four guys offset some of the likely declines in production mentioned above.

 

IMO, I don't see the offense as a whole being that much worse next year unless Rios or Dunn have another historically bad season or if Konerko finally falls victim of age. In terms of total runs, I'd expect them to score less, but not significantly less. The real problem with our offense isn't gross output, but it's how streaky and inconsistent it can be at times. Unfortunately, that will require more contact & OBP.

[bigruss]

And the Sox won't deal Sale, as they shouldn't.

 

Any Headley talk is effectively pointless.

Yea he was a target I wanted before his big breakout season, but the Padres are being smart and aren't dealing him for anything short of the moon.

[Balta1701]

The Sox were 7th in runs scored in all of baseball last year. 7 of the 9 starters are returning. Of the two spots with new starters, only catcher is a clear downgrade. The opening day ages for our current lineup is 29, 33, 33, 37, 32, 24, 31, 27, & 26.

 

So based on this info, we have one spot where we should definitely expect less production (catcher). We have another spot (1B), where age would suggest at least some regression and possibly a significant decline in production. We have four other guys at the tail-end of their primes, who have provided inconsistent production over recent years. Two of these guys are coming off great years, two are coming off below-average years. As a group, it's reasonable to expect them to be a little worse next year, but I wouldn't expect a significant decline overall.

 

So the question becomes how much better will Viciedo, De Aza, & Beckham be next year and can Flowers exceed expectations? Can these four guys offset some of the likely declines in production mentioned above.

 

IMO, I don't see the offense as a whole being that much worse next year unless Rios or Dunn have another historically bad season or if Konerko finally falls victim of age. In terms of total runs, I'd expect them to score less, but not significantly less. The real problem with our offense isn't gross output, but it's how streaky and inconsistent it can be at times. Unfortunately, that will require more contact & OBP.

More OBP and more contact, btw, is exactly what we've changed by the 2 guys swapped out. We've added a guy who takes a lot of pitches and a contact guy.

[Chicago White Sox]

More OBP and more contact, btw, is exactly what we've changed by the 2 guys swapped out. We've added a guy who takes a lot of pitches and a contact guy.

But we lost a contact guy (A.J) and a guy who takes a lot of pitches (Youkilis). The net effect is pretty nothing.

 

I do think Sanchez will be given a chance pretty quickly if Beckham struggles out of the gate and that would definitely give the bottom of the lineup more contact and OBP.

[Balta1701]

But we lost a contact guy (A.J) and a guy who takes a lot of pitches (Youkilis). The net effect is pretty nothing.

 

I do think Sanchez will be given a chance pretty quickly if Beckham struggles out of the gate and that would definitely give the bottom of the lineup more contact and OBP.

Actually, the effect could be pretty substantial. We only had Youkilis for 1/2 of a season, and even when we had him, he really wasn't the "high OBP" guy Boston had. Over the whole season, the Sox averaged a .286 OBP out of their 3b slot last year, and that's including the time Youk was there. Flowers could hit .180 and still match the OBP that the Sox got out of 3b last year, and Keppinger ought to match AJ pretty well on that mark, if not beat it.

[Chicago White Sox]

Actually, the effect could be pretty substantial. We only had Youkilis for 1/2 of a season, and even when we had him, he really wasn't the "high OBP" guy Boston had. Over the whole season, the Sox averaged a .286 OBP out of their 3b slot last year, and that's including the time Youk was there. Flowers could hit .180 and still match the OBP that the Sox got out of 3b last year, and Keppinger ought to match AJ pretty well on that mark, if not beat it.

Good points, I sometimes forget how epically bad Morel was last year.

 

Flowers should easily exceed that .286 OBP, hell he did so last year in minimal playing time. I just think Keppinger's BA is due to fall some and so will his OBP as a result. If so, his OBP may not be that much better than A.J.'s was last year.

[Balta1701]

Good points, I sometimes forget how epically bad Morel was last year.

 

Flowers should easily exceed that .286 OBP, hell he did so last year in minimal playing time. I just think Keppinger's BA is due to fall some and so will his OBP as a result. If so, his OBP may not be that much better than A.J.'s was last year.

Kep's OBP career mark is .337, which is higher than AJ's career mark of .324 or the .318 he put up in his time in Chicago. So an "Average" season for Keppinger might be slightly better than AJ on that mark, although who knows what he'll actually do if he's considered the starter coming in to the season at a position.

 

Basically, we may have lost some slugging out of the changes this offseason, since AJ had a ridiculous year last year (depending of course on what Flowers does), but it'll be really hard to match last year's OBP, just since 3b was so bad. We've almost certainly upgraded on that regard, at least on paper. Billy Beane would be happy.

 

Oh, and while bashing Morel, don't leave out Hudson, he gets a portion of that blame too.

[JoshPR]

Why would rios be back in center when he sucks there???

[Soxfest]

I'd believe that more if the Sox hadn't outscored Detroit last year. So whatever it was that made up those 3 games...it wasn't the offense. So somehow, the team that scored fewer runs won the division last year.

Victor Martinez will be back for Detroit do not forget that he makes a HUGE difference.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Soxfest

[TomSeaverFan]

It's obviously a lineup with 4 or 5 holes, but, as has been said, I think we'll still see 1-2 of those holes be filled (or attempted to).

 

Four or five holes? That is a scary proposition. On paper, the White Sox lineup does appear to be that of a team on the offensive decline. The keys offensively would obviously be Ramirez and Beckham taking the next step into becoming truly elite players. Konerko and Rios and Dunn must be incredibly productive as well for this team to have a chance at going .500 from the offensive spectrum. I guess if the pitching and defense were dominant the team could afford to have tons of holes in the batting order. At this stage of the offseason, I'd think the team's chances of making the playoffs are very slim. You never know, though.

 

Is Keppinger very fast? How is the team speed this year? It would be nice to see some runs generated through speed.

[cabiness42]

Would think those last three slots are occupied in some order by Beckham, Ramirez, Viciedo

 

Yes.

[GreatScott82]

I think a major trade is going to happen soon. It has been way too quiet on these parts for over a month! Hahn has pretty solid pieces to move in Viciedo, Beckham, Floyd and possibly De Aza... I expect 2 out of those 4 to be dealt soon. My guess would be Viciedo and Floyd will be the ones traded.

 

BUT to go along with this thread- here is my 2013 starting lineup if the season started today:

 

De Aza CF

Beckham 2B

Rios RF

Dunn DH/1B

Konerko 1B/DH

Ramirez SS

Keppinger 3B

Viciedo LF

Flowers C

 

 

[cabiness42]

I think a major trade is going to happen soon. It has been way too quiet on these parts for over a month! Hahn has pretty solid pieces to move in Viciedo, Beckham, Floyd and possibly De Aza... I expect 2 out of those 4 to be dealt soon. My guess would be Viciedo and Floyd will be the ones traded.

 

BUT to go along with this thread- here is my 2013 starting lineup if the season started today:

 

De Aza CF

Beckham 2B

Rios RF

Dunn DH/1B

Konerko 1B/DH

Ramirez SS

Keppinger 3B

Viciedo LF

Flowers C

 

I don't see any way Robin doesn't have Keppinger batting 2nd if those are the 9 starters.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I just think trading Viciedo is risky given that we'll have five guys in our starting lineup over the age of 30 next year. We desperately need to develop some young position players soon or we're going to be in a real bad spot in the next year or two when Rios, Dunn, & Konerko are all possibly gone.

 

Viciedo will be 24 to start next season and is under control for five more years. There's an incentive to stick with him and develop him into a legit middle of the order bat. There just isn't much behind him in the system.

[hogan873]

I just think trading Viciedo is risky given that we'll have five guys in our starting lineup over the age of 30 next year. We desperately need to develop some young position players soon or we're going to be in a real bad spot in the next year or two when Rios, Dunn, & Konerko are all possibly gone.

 

Viciedo will be 24 to start next season and is under control for five more years. There's an incentive to stick with him and develop him into a legit middle of the order bat. There just isn't much behind him in the system.

Good point. I know the debate over Viciedo and whether or not he will become a dangerous MLB hitter will rage on this site until he either develops or gets past the point where we can say "let's wait and see." But with his young age and the fact that he showed flashes of what could be, I wouldn't mind hanging on to him. If he were to be traded, I would hope the Sox get something they need, especially considering he's under control for five more years.

 

I agree that Floyd and at least one more player will be traded. I could see Floyd, Thornton, and one of De Aza/Viciedo/Rios/Beckham being traded. Depending on what Hahn is targeting, Beckham could be traded (in a package) for a 3B and Keppinger moved to 2nd. Or an outfielder could be traded for an impact LH bat.

 

I just hope something happens soon. We're all getting antsy.

[ZionrulZ]

Why...............because it is not a lineup that would challenge Detroit in any way, shape or form as it is constructed today.

Right on, Soxfest! Right on!

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think a major trade is going to happen soon. It has been way too quiet on these parts for over a month! Hahn has pretty solid pieces to move in Viciedo, Beckham, Floyd and possibly De Aza... I expect 2 out of those 4 to be dealt soon. My guess would be Viciedo and Floyd will be the ones traded.

 

BUT to go along with this thread- here is my 2013 starting lineup if the season started today:

 

De Aza CF

Beckham 2B

Rios RF

Dunn DH/1B

Konerko 1B/DH

Ramirez SS

Keppinger 3B

Viciedo LF

Flowers C

It's quiet because he's still sleeping. I'll call it right now: January 14th Nappytime Hahn awakens from his slumber to trade Matt Thornton to a contender for a middling prospect.