Your 2013 Chicago White Sox lineup

[flippedoutpunk]

Good enough to win the BP Cup

[Balta1701]

Depending on what Hahn is targeting, Beckham could be traded (in a package) for a 3B and Keppinger moved to 2nd. Or an outfielder could be traded for an impact LH bat.

Beckham has effectively zero trade value right now. He's not negative like Floyd would be to some teams because he doesn't have a huge salary, but he's a first-year arb player, so he won't be underpaid any more, and if he puts up another year like 2011-2012, he's going to be non-tendered at the end of this year.

 

Basically, if I'm a team that might like to try him out, I might as well wait until the end of the year when I can get him off the scrap heap, rather than trade something for him now.

[witesoxfan]

Beckham has effectively zero trade value right now. He's not negative like Floyd would be to some teams because he doesn't have a huge salary, but he's a first-year arb player, so he won't be underpaid any more, and if he puts up another year like 2011-2012, he's going to be non-tendered at the end of this year.

 

Basically, if I'm a team that might like to try him out, I might as well wait until the end of the year when I can get him off the scrap heap, rather than trade something for him now.

 

Unless of course you see the flaw in his swing and want to guarantee that you can acquire him.

[Balta1701]

Unless of course you see the flaw in his swing and want to guarantee that you can acquire him.

At this point, I can't fathom why any team would believe there's a simple flaw in his swing that can be corrected. He's tried a hundred corrections...to the point where I can't believe he'd have any confidence in what he was doing.

 

But if you want to make the comparison...yeah, the Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton trade would be a comp. The most anyone would give up for Beckham is a struggling failed prospect on the verge of being non-tendered.

 

Even if a team wants Beckham for that reason, they're not giving you anything but their own scrap heap in order to get him.

[witesoxfan]

At this point, I can't fathom why any team would believe there's a simple flaw in his swing that can be corrected. He's tried a hundred corrections...to the point where I can't believe he'd have any confidence in what he was doing.

 

But if you want to make the comparison...yeah, the Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton trade would be a comp. The most anyone would give up for Beckham is a struggling failed prospect on the verge of being non-tendered.

 

Even if a team wants Beckham for that reason, they're not giving you anything but their own scrap heap in order to get him.

 

Well that's exactly it, and that's never going to be worth it to the White Sox unless they seem the same thing. A Carlos Quentin in waiting or something like that.

[hogan873]

Beckham has effectively zero trade value right now. He's not negative like Floyd would be to some teams because he doesn't have a huge salary, but he's a first-year arb player, so he won't be underpaid any more, and if he puts up another year like 2011-2012, he's going to be non-tendered at the end of this year.

 

Basically, if I'm a team that might like to try him out, I might as well wait until the end of the year when I can get him off the scrap heap, rather than trade something for him now.

Right, which is why I said he could be traded as part of a package. If Hahn swings some deal to acquire an infielder and needs to move someone, Beckham could be a throw in along with Floyd and Thornton for example.

 

In the long run, however, I think it's more likely an outfielder gets traded, and we will be watching Beckham struggle at the plate again.

[Balta1701]

Right, which is why I said he could be traded as part of a package. If Hahn swings some deal to acquire an infielder and needs to move someone, Beckham could be a throw in along with Floyd and Thornton for example.

 

In the long run, however, I think it's more likely an outfielder gets traded, and we will be watching Beckham struggle at the plate again.

The other thing to ask is...why should the Sox trade him for anything right now? He's not going to break the bank, he's not blocking anyone, and maybe somehow this offseason is the one where he straightens things out. Sure, could be really low probability at this point, but the Sox wouldn't give him away as a throw-in.

[hogan873]

The other thing to ask is...why should the Sox trade him for anything right now? He's not going to break the bank, he's not blocking anyone, and maybe somehow this offseason is the one where he straightens things out. Sure, could be really low probability at this point, but the Sox wouldn't give him away as a throw-in.

Good point. And unless Hahn makes a deal and brings in a quality infielder that fits another hole (LH bat), there would be no sense in trading Beckham.

[GreatScott82]

Good point. And unless Hahn makes a deal and brings in a quality infielder that fits another hole (LH bat), there would be no sense in trading Beckham.

To me it makes the most sense to deal an OF. Beckham does not hurt the team defensively regardless of his below average bat. We have been super patient with him- it really makes no sense to deal him at this point. Hopefully he can turn things around with the bat this summer.

 

 

[Balta1701]

To me it makes the most sense to deal an OF. Beckham does not hurt the team defensively regardless of his below average bat. We have been super patient with him- it really makes no sense to deal him at this point. Hopefully he can turn things around with the bat this summer.

The problem with dealing an OF for this team is we don't have an OF ready to step in either...so we're in the position of dealing one of our OF's, trying to find a taker for that OF, but then also trying to find an OF of our own somewhere else. At the very least, that's complicated...if you deal one away, now you're left with Dewayne Wise and Jordan Danks as the replacement OF's at this point. Yeah you can sign someone to fill the gap...but then why is the team you're trading with not signing that same guy?

[Marty34]

The problem with dealing an OF for this team is we don't have an OF ready to step in either...so we're in the position of dealing one of our OF's, trying to find a taker for that OF, but then also trying to find an OF of our own somewhere else. At the very least, that's complicated...if you deal one away, now you're left with Dewayne Wise and Jordan Danks as the replacement OF's at this point. Yeah you can sign someone to fill the gap...but then why is the team you're trading with not signing that same guy?

 

Dunn returning to OF is an option depending on what you'd get in return for an OF'er you traded.

[spiderman]

Right, which is why I said he could be traded as part of a package. If Hahn swings some deal to acquire an infielder and needs to move someone, Beckham could be a throw in along with Floyd and Thornton for example.

 

In the long run, however, I think it's more likely an outfielder gets traded, and we will be watching Beckham struggle at the plate again.

 

I could live with Beckham for another season if he hits 18-20 HR and plays great defense. Yes, his .240 average, or less, would be hard to take, but he's still young enough I'd rather exhaust every opportunity with him and walk away knowing he was given every last doubt than moving him for nothing.

[southsider2k5]

Dunn returning to OF is an option depending on what you'd get in return for an OF'er you traded.

 

I'll never understand why people offer putting Sox players in positions they have already proven awful in (Dayan at 3B, Rios in CF, or Dunn in OF).

[Marty34]

I'll never understand why people offer putting Sox players in positions they have already proven awful in (Dayan at 3B, Rios in CF, or Dunn in OF).

 

All things being equal, I'd rather have Dunn in left than create a hole in the starting rotation. All this assumes the Sox are planning on contending this year.

[Dick Allen]

All things being equal, I'd rather have Dunn in left than create a hole in the starting rotation. All this assumes the Sox are planning on contending this year.

After May 29th last year, Dunn hit.188 with a .305 OBP and a .727 OPS. If you think Viciedo is a guy you can't play and contend, what makes Dunn someone you can play out of position to contend?

[Marty34]

After May 29th last year, Dunn hit.188 with a .305 OBP and a .727 OPS. If you think Viciedo is a guy you can't play and contend, what makes Dunn someone you can play out of position to contend?

 

I think Dunn is a liability to this team wherever you put him. Unfortunately, the money he is owed dictates he plays which is different from Viciedo.

 

I believe the best chance the White Sox have to contend next year is to keep Floyd, Quintana, Santiago and try to cobble together enough offense. If that means putting Dunn in left and signing Hafner, I can live with that for a year. If Santiago, Quintana, and Danks all perform well that opens up a lot of options for 2014.

[Brian26]

I think Dunn is a liability to this team wherever you put him. Unfortunately, the money he is owed dictates he plays which is different from Viciedo.

 

I believe the best chance the White Sox have to contend next year is to keep Floyd, Quintana, Santiago and try to cobble together enough offense. If that means putting Dunn in left and signing Hafner, I can live with that for a year. If Santiago, Quintana, and Danks all perform well that opens up a lot of options for 2014.

 

HAFNER?

 

Dear God.

[LittleHurt05]

I think Dunn is a liability to this team wherever you put him. Unfortunately, the money he is owed dictates he plays which is different from Viciedo.

 

I believe the best chance the White Sox have to contend next year is to keep Floyd, Quintana, Santiago and try to cobble together enough offense. If that means putting Dunn in left and signing Hafner, I can live with that for a year. If Santiago, Quintana, and Danks all perform well that opens up a lot of options for 2014.

 

Who is gonna take Hafner's place for the 80 games he misses with injury?

[Dick Allen]

Who is gonna take Hafner's place for the 80 games he misses with injury?

Grady Sizemore should be ready to play 10-15 games.

[Marty34]

Who is gonna take Hafner's place for the 80 games he misses with injury?

 

My view is that the Sox going to have a tough time contending next year given the current roster unless they are willing to trade a SP for a bat and replace that SP with a free agent signing, even that might not be enough. My Plan B would be to replace AJ's offensive numbers with Hafner, Dunn in LF (Viciedo plays LF v. LH'ers, Dunn DH's) and keep the pitching depth of Floyd, Quintana, and Santiago. If things work out pitching wise the Sox can contend. I understand the liability Dunn would be in the OF, but the need for another bat (cheap) outweighs the defensive issue with Dunn. No, I don't think the Sox would do it so don't worry.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Marty34

[Balta1701]

HAFNER?

 

Dear God.

 

 

Who is gonna take Hafner's place for the 80 games he misses with injury?

 

 

Grady Sizemore should be ready to play 10-15 games.

And this is why Marty always suggests trading our guys but never suggests what player he wants back, because no where is it possible that Dunn in LF and Hafner at DH is an upgrade over our current setup.

 

A 36 year old DH who has played 100 games once in the last 5 seasons, had a OPS barely over .800, and dropped down to .784 last year. That's somehow an improvement?

[Marty34]

And this is why Marty always suggests trading our guys but never suggests what player he wants back[/b], because no where is it possible that Dunn in LF and Hafner at DH is an upgrade over our current setup.

 

A 36 year old DH who has played 100 games once in the last 5 seasons, had a OPS barely over .800, and dropped down to .784 last year. That's somehow an improvement?

 

It's an excercise in futility to make up trades on a message board because in most instances we don't know who is on the block or have any idea what the players trade value really is because there are so many factors we don't know.

 

As far as Hafner/Dunn goes:

 

1.) Road to contention is to equal last year's offense while relying on the possibility of having a much better rotation than last year.

1.) Hafner replaces AJ's production cheap.

3.) Until further notice, can't have Viciedo and Flowers both in lineup vs, right-handers.

4.) Dunn in LF for 100 games wouldn't be pretty, but AJ was awful behind the plate and you lived with it last year.

5.) Sale/Peavy/Danks/Floyd/Quintana or Santiago gives the Sox an opportunity to have a good, cheap, rotation for 2014.

 

Because of the injury to Danks, and the heavy workloads on Sale and Peavy, I think it's more important to keep Floyd, Quintana, and Santiago to protect those guys than to use them to upgrade the offense.

 

What's your "path to contention" in 2013?

[Balta1701]

Over the last 2 seasons, Hafner has fewer HR than AJ hit last year. Tell me again about how Hafner somehow replaces AJ's production?

 

Dunn in LF would be much, much worse than Viciedo and Flowers in the same lineup.

 

You said yourself protecting your rotation is more important than the offense, and yet you're willing to destroy, utterly utterly destroy the defense behind them?

[Balta1701]

How do we make up the ground against Detroit?

 

1. Better starting pitching. Basically, that means:

a.) Sale doesn't take a step back due to innings

b.) Quintana is an adequate 3rd or 4th option and doesn't take a step back due to innings

c.) Get Danks back, get a nearly full season from him with at least solid performance

 

We're in pretty good shape on depth/guys from AAA who can step in if someone gets hurt, better than last year probably. Those 3 things are the rotation keys.

 

2. Better bullpen performance.

That happens, mostly, by having Jones and Reed no longer be rookies, and perhaps by a full season by Veal.

 

3. Same defense, if not better.

A couple guys might take steps back with age. Viciedo hopefully could get somewhat better in a 2nd full season out there. The possible real upgrades...3b now has a stable player at it when 1/2 the season last year was awful and You wasn't great, and Flowers hopefully can match, if not improve upon defense at home.

 

4. Only a small step backwards on offense. There are still a lot of guys who could get better there, but we've played moneyball too. We've improved 3b substantially even if Kep doesn't have a good year, solely by getting rid of Hudson and Morel's 1/2 season. Flowers should be an OBP upgrade at C, even if he's a slugging downgrade.

 

5. Better bench. This really was a big weakness last year, particularly in the 2nd half. It made people wear down, and cost us games every time someone like Olmedo was out there.

[Marty34]

Over the last 2 seasons, Hafner has fewer HR than AJ hit last year. Tell me again about how Hafner somehow replaces AJ's production?

 

Dunn in LF would be much, much worse than Viciedo and Flowers in the same lineup.

 

You said yourself protecting your rotation is more important than the offense, and yet you're willing to destroy, utterly utterly destroy the defense behind them?

 

 

Since when do you measure production solely on homers? Hafner's OPS v. right-handers last year was .798. AJ's overall was .827. No way would Dunn in left be worse than the expected ~.625 OPS in ~650 plate appearances versus right-handers from Flowers and Viciedo.

 

What's the best chance the Sox have to contend next year in your opinion?