Your 2013 Chicago White Sox lineup

[Marty34]

How do we make up the ground against Detroit?

 

1. Better starting pitching. Basically, that means:

a.) Sale doesn't take a step back due to innings

b.) Quintana is an adequate 3rd or 4th option and doesn't take a step back due to innings

c.) Get Danks back, get a nearly full season from him with at least solid performance

 

We're in pretty good shape on depth/guys from AAA who can step in if someone gets hurt, better than last year probably. Those 3 things are the rotation keys.

 

2. Better bullpen performance.

That happens, mostly, by having Jones and Reed no longer be rookies, and perhaps by a full season by Veal.

 

3. Same defense, if not better.

A couple guys might take steps back with age. Viciedo hopefully could get somewhat better in a 2nd full season out there. The possible real upgrades...3b now has a stable player at it when 1/2 the season last year was awful and You wasn't great, and Flowers hopefully can match, if not improve upon defense at home.

 

4. Only a small step backwards on offense. There are still a lot of guys who could get better there, but we've played moneyball too. We've improved 3b substantially even if Kep doesn't have a good year, solely by getting rid of Hudson and Morel's 1/2 season. Flowers should be an OBP upgrade at C, even if he's a slugging downgrade.

 

5. Better bench. This really was a big weakness last year, particularly in the 2nd half. It made people wear down, and cost us games every time someone like Olmedo was out there.

 

So what's your rotation for next year? I don't think we have the depth in the rotation to trade a starter if the plan is to contend next year.

 

As far as the offense goes, I'll call Keppinger an upgrade over the totality of 3B last year, but that still leaves them a bat short from possibly matching last year's offense and the simplest way to improve it is to sit Viciedo v. right-handers.

[Kyyle23]

Since when do you measure production solely on homers? Hafner's OPS v. right-handers last year was .798. AJ's overall was .827. No way would Dunn in left be worse than the expected ~.625 OPS in ~650 plate appearances versus right-handers from Flowers and Viciedo.

 

What's the best chance the Sox have to contend next year in your opinion?

 

Travis Hafner played 66 games last year. Only once in the last 6 years has he played over 100 games, and only once in his career has he missed less than 20 games a season. Also keep in mind, it isnt like Cleveland was running him out at first every time he played. he was only DHed, so even doing something like swinging a bat 3-4 ABs per game shelved him almost 100 games last season.

 

My "path to a championship" isnt clear at this point, but I do know that Hafner is a dead end that will lead the Sox into a direction in which bench players that shouldnt be playing every day are in the lineup every day, and that is not good.

[Balta1701]

So what's your rotation for next year? I don't think we have the depth in the rotation to trade a starter if the plan is to contend next year.

 

As far as the offense goes, I'll call Keppinger an upgrade over the totality of 3B last year, but that still leaves them a bat short from possibly matching last year's offense and the simplest way to improve it is to sit Viciedo v. right-handers.

Sale

Peavy

Danks

Quintana

Floyd

Santiago

Axelrod

Castro

 

They may...may have the depth to trade a starter, but that depends on how comfortable they are going with a lefty-heavy rotation, or going with Axelrod or Castro in the 5th slot for a portion of the year. IMO, if they want to trade Floyd, it's because they've decided they're comfortable with Santiago in the 5th slot.

 

And they're not a bat short, on paper. They could benefit from having more LH hitters on the bench, I'll grant you that...but that ship already sailed in the OF when they resigned Wise.

[southsider2k5]

Travis Hafner? lol. Really?

[mr_genius]

This is going to be brutal.

 

1. RF Alejandro DeAza

2. 3B Jeff Keppinger (if healthy)

3. DH Adam Done

4. 1B Paul Konerko (is this the year of the massive decline?)

5. CF Alex "every other year" Rios (he's do for an "other" year!)

6. LF Dayan Viciedo

7. SS Alexei Ramirez

8. C Tyler Flowers (at this point he's going to have to start 162 games)

9. 2B Gordon Beckham

 

That might, honestly, be the worst lineup in the AL. We have to expect regression from our best hitter in his age 36 season after watching his OPS+ plummet in the 2nd half of last season.

 

yea that's looking pretty rough

Edited December 29, 2012 by mr_genius

[chw42]

Travis Hafner? lol. Really?

 

Marty just likes to point out flaws on this team (sometimes nonexistent). But when you ask him for solutions, there usually is none or it's Travis Hafner.

Edited December 29, 2012 by chw42

[Marty34]

Marty just likes to point out flaws on this team (sometimes nonexistent). But when you ask him for solutions, there usually is none or it's Travis Hafner.

 

The solution is a 3-5 year plan.

[Marty34]

Sale

Peavy

Danks

Quintana

Floyd

Santiago

Axelrod

Castro

 

They may...may have the depth to trade a starter, but that depends on how comfortable they are going with a lefty-heavy rotation, or going with Axelrod or Castro in the 5th slot for a portion of the year. IMO, if they want to trade Floyd, it's because they've decided they're comfortable with Santiago in the 5th slot.

 

And they're not a bat short, on paper. They could benefit from having more LH hitters on the bench, I'll grant you that...but that ship already sailed in the OF when they resigned Wise.

 

Not a bat short on paper? I was being kind, if you mean they are more than a bat short you're closer to being right. If you are counting Axelrod and castro as rotation depth there are at least 25 teams who have 8 better starters.

[Balta1701]

Not a bat short on paper? I was being kind, if you mean they are more than a bat short you're closer to being right. If you are counting Axelrod and castro as rotation depth there are at least 25 teams who have 8 better starters.

Please name them.

 

Yes, I would say that the team which scored the 7th most runs in the AL last year and has upgraded its team OBP is not a bat short on paper. You'd say the Yankees are a bat short on paper.

[Marty34]

Travis Hafner played 66 games last year. Only once in the last 6 years has he played over 100 games, and only once in his career has he missed less than 20 games a season. Also keep in mind, it isnt like Cleveland was running him out at first every time he played. he was only DHed, so even doing something like swinging a bat 3-4 ABs per game shelved him almost 100 games last season.

 

My "path to a championship" isnt clear at this point, but I do know that Hafner is a dead end that will lead the Sox into a direction in which bench players that shouldnt be playing every day are in the lineup every day, and that is not good.

 

Danks, Dunn, and Konerko accounted for 2 WAR last year. They account for roughly 43% of the current payroll, there are no simple answers. Everything should be open for discussion.

[Rowand44]

The solution is a 3-5 year plan.

A 3-5 year plan where we give up on 23 year olds after 1 season.

[Balta1701]

Danks, Dunn, and Konerko accounted for 2 WAR last year. They account for roughly 43% of the current payroll, there are no simple answers. Everything should be open for discussion.

And Travis Hafner accounted for 0.6 WAR last year while playing the DH spot.

 

So, you basically want to take Viciedo's 0.5 WAR last year, assume he won't get any better, move Dunn to the LF spot where his value will go significantly down because of his defense (typically 1 WAR to 3 WAR worse based on his NL history), and put Hafner into the DH spot to get 0.6 WAR.

 

Net loss, 1 to 3 WAR, due mostly to your obsession with putting Dunn in LF.

[Marty34]

Please name them.

 

Yes, I would say that the team which scored the 7th most runs in the AL last year and has upgraded its team OBP is not a bat short on paper. You'd say the Yankees are a bat short on paper.

 

You got me. I can't name the 25 teams who have a better top 8 than the Sox, given that I suggest they use Axelrod and Castro to bolster the offense.

[Rowand44]

Danks, Dunn, and Konerko accounted for 2 WAR last year. They account for roughly 43% of the current payroll, there are no simple answers. Everything should be open for discussion.

Might want to check your math.

[GreatScott82]

The Rockies are throwing Carlos Gonzalez's name out there. They need young pitching... this could be option to add that lefty bat to our lineup. The dude can play! Also, Kubel seems to be coveted by White Sox management. Bruce Levine thinks something may happen there.... An outfield with Kubel, Gonzalez and Rios wouldn't be too bad. It would also balance our lineup as well.....

[Marty34]

And Travis Hafner accounted for 0.6 WAR last year while playing the DH spot.

 

So, you basically want to take Viciedo's 0.5 WAR last year, assume he won't get any better, move Dunn to the LF spot where his value will go significantly down because of his defense (typically 1 WAR to 3 WAR worse based on his NL history), and put Hafner into the DH spot to get 0.6 WAR.

 

Net loss, 1 to 3 WAR, due mostly to your obsession with putting Dunn in LF.

 

I'd rather not have Dunn in LF, but if the goal is to give yourself the best chance to contend without adding payroll it should be considered. Play the odds that dWAR is overrated.

[Marty34]

The Rockies are throwing Carlos Gonzalez's name out there. They need young pitching... this could be option to add that lefty bat to our lineup. The dude can play! Also, Kubel seems to be coveted by White Sox management. Bruce Levine thinks something may happen there.... An outfield with Kubel, Gonzalez and Rios wouldn't be too bad. It would also balance our lineup as well.....

 

Gonzalez home/road splits shows he loves hitting at Coors. I'd think twice before committing to the $70M he's owed over the next 5 years.

[GreatScott82]

Gonzalez home/road splits shows he loves hitting at Coors. I'd think twice before committing to the $70M he's owed over the next 5 years.

The $ is serious.... BUT the Cell is the AL version of Coors... I think he will be fine.

[Marty34]

A 3-5 year plan where we give up on 23 year olds after 1 season.

 

Viciedo would not be in my 3-5 year plan currently. If he were playing 3B or RF, yes. If you're going to stick a 24 y.o. in LF he needs to produce quickly, if not he can be replaced fairly easily.

[Rowand44]

Viciedo would not be in my 3-5 year plan currently. If he were playing 3B or RF, yes. If you're going to stick a 24 y.o. in LF he needs to produce quickly, if not he can be replaced fairly easily.

Giving up on a 23 yr old because he plays lf is just so ridiculous and I'm just going to leave it at that.

[Marty34]

The $ is serious.... BUT the Cell is the AL version of Coors... I think he will be fine.

 

It's a tough decision. Forgetting for the moment the players they'd have to give up for him, can the Sox win with Gonzalez as the highest paid position on their team of the course of those 5 years?

[Dick Allen]

The $ is serious.... BUT the Cell is the AL version of Coors... I think he will be fine.

I agree with Marty here. If you can get him and the price is reflective of a guy owed a lot of money who has yet to prove he is elite anywhere but Coors Field, jump on it. But if your paying for a 26 year old with his overall numbers, it could really blow up in your face. He is a talent and may produce big numbers for years no matter where he plays, but up until now, despite some great overall numbers, he hasn't done much to warrant his paycheck or a large package of talent to acquire him close to sea level.

[Balta1701]

I agree with Marty here. If you can get him and the price is reflective of a guy owed a lot of money who has yet to prove he is elite anywhere but Coors Field, jump on it. But if your paying for a 26 year old with his overall numbers, it could really blow up in your face. He is a talent and may produce big numbers for years no matter where he plays, but up until now, despite some great overall numbers, he hasn't done much to warrant his paycheck or a large package of talent to acquire him close to sea level.

Especially since his contract is backloaded, I'd expect the asking price right now for him would be enormous. The kind of price they got for Jiminez. They can wait a year to move him to see if his numbers explode one of these years.

[southsider2k5]

The solution is a 3-5 year plan.

 

Which seems to involved trading 23 year old Cuban outfielders and replacing them with old American injury prone DH's.

[Marty34]

Which seems to involved trading 23 year old Cuban outfielders and replacing them with old American injury prone DH's.

 

Why are you bringing ethnicity into it?