Google Generation

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...ity-skills.html

 

One of Britain's leading inventors has warned that a 'Google generation' who rely on the internet for everything are in danger of becoming 'brain-dead'.

 

Trevor Baylis, who invented the wind-up radio, said children are losing creativity and practical skills because they spend too much time in front of screens.

 

The 75-year-old said he fears that the next generation of inventors is being lost, with young people often unable to make anything with their hands.

 

Perhaps it's my old ass 30 years on this planet, but I totally get his point. I think the internet/google is an amazing tool that is making people smarter (no more need to debate over certain facts, just look them up instantly on your phone). But on the other hand, kids/people look stuff up on the internet instead of thinking for themselves or creating something for themselves.

 

Thoughts?

 

[bmags]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...ity-skills.html

 

 

 

Perhaps it's my old ass 30 years on this planet, but I totally get his point. I think the internet/google is an amazing tool that is making people smarter (no more need to debate over certain facts, just look them up instantly on your phone). But on the other hand, kids/people look stuff up on the internet instead of thinking for themselves or creating something for themselves.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Unsurprisingly it's an article not backed up with anything remotely objective or scientific, and just about how an old person thinks this next generation has it too easy.

[iamshack]

I think this happened a long time before the internet...

 

I was about 18 by the time the interwebs were used by any significant number of people and I don't know how to make s***.

[Steve9347]

Old person complains "kids these days" have it easier and are spoiled and didn't walk up hill to school both ways in snow. This is not news, it's just an old, bitter man.

[LittleHurt05]

How about all of the technological advances created by computers? All of the programs and machines run by computers that make our life easier? Are those not inventions too? Those same kids he b****es about created all of that by sitting in front of the computer.

 

He is just grumpy because his grandkids don't wanna collect rubbish with him.

[Steve9347]

LOL, just use "Mecanno" - the tinker toys of the 40s! That's how children will get smart!

 

We wouldn't want them using practical tools such as computers to design things, which is what their future positions will call for, they need to BUILD with metallic tinker toys. Stupid old man just wants to be a kid again.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, this is a crock. I'm sure similar things were said when the first video game game out, and the TV, and the radio. People will continue to find faults with "stuff" and will continue trying to improve the experience.

 

I'm sure in some examples it will be perfectly true - just as it's been true with the hardcore gamer who does nothing but play video games, just as it did with the couch potato who did nothing but watch TV.

[iamshack]

Yeah, this is a crock. I'm sure similar things were said when the first video game game out, and the TV, and the radio. People will continue to find faults with "stuff" and will continue trying to improve the experience.

 

I'm sure in some examples it will be perfectly true - just as it's been true with the hardcore gamer who does nothing but play video games, just as it did with the couch potato who did nothing but watch TV.

The bigger concern in my opinion is the health of our bodies, not our minds. A lot of these activities don't involve much exercise (if any) and lead to all sorts of chronic health problems.

[Steve9347]

The bigger concern in my opinion is the health of our bodies, not our minds. A lot of these activities don't involve much exercise (if any) and lead to all sorts of chronic health problems.

Well, people should exercise.

[bmags]

Well, people should exercise.

 

[iamshack]

But they clearly do not.

[IlliniKrush]

I get it to a certain point. You don't have to work your brain or memory as much. Instead of trying to figure something out or remember a fact, someone just looks it up immediately. Instead of trying to figure out where something is or how to get somewhere efficiently, you just throw it into a GPS.

[Jenksismyhero]

I get it to a certain point. You don't have to work your brain or memory as much. Instead of trying to figure something out or remember a fact, someone just looks it up immediately. Instead of trying to figure out where something is or how to get somewhere efficiently, you just throw it into a GPS.

 

That's what I was getting at.

 

And my wife does the GPS thing. She relies on that thing totally. We could go to the same place 10 times, with the same route, but she refuses to pay attention and learn where she's going. "Why do that, the GPS tells me where to go."

 

[iamshack]

That's what I was getting at.

 

And my wife does the GPS thing. She relies on that thing totally. We could go to the same place 10 times, with the same route, but she refuses to pay attention and learn where she's going. "Why do that, the GPS tells me where to go."

But there is a payoff to that at the same time...you can accomplish much more in a shorter period of time by being able to access the information more quickly.

 

In instances where you might want to work through a math problem or something, I can see the utility in doing in yourself rather than looking up the answer, but in terms of having to go to the library and research something, I don't really see the utility in that.

[farmteam]

But there is a payoff to that at the same time...you can accomplish much more in a shorter period of time by being able to access the information more quickly.

 

In instances where you might want to work through a math problem or something, I can see the utility in doing in yourself rather than looking up the answer, but in terms of having to go to the library and research something, I don't really see the utility in that.

I suppose it could better lay the foundation for research projects where you have to actually, you know, do some research, instead of just looking up a single fact.

[Jenksismyhero]

But there is a payoff to that at the same time...you can accomplish much more in a shorter period of time by being able to access the information more quickly.

 

In instances where you might want to work through a math problem or something, I can see the utility in doing in yourself rather than looking up the answer, but in terms of having to go to the library and research something, I don't really see the utility in that.

 

English professors would disagree with you. There's a lot of critical thinking that you just don't need to do anymore with literature. If you have a book report project, you go read the internet for 10 minutes, get about 100 ideas for your report, and you just use those ideas. You don't need to sit down and think about the text anymore.

 

I think it cuts both ways. I think it's amazing you can get those 100 ideas from different people so quickly. But at the same time you do lose that basic, fundamental ability to think on your own as well. It's the same argument about teaching math versus just giving a kid a calculator. At some point it becomes pointless to do long division or whatever by hand when it can be done in 2 seconds with a calculator. But you still need to teach those skills up to a certain point.

[iamshack]

I suppose it could better lay the foundation for research projects where you have to actually, you know, do some research, instead of just looking up a single fact.

Well I always believed that the utility in doing research (other than to learn what you were researching about) was to learn how to become better at doing research.

 

That hasn't changed. Now, we learn how to efficiently research using the internet as opposed to digging through books all day.

 

I really don't see why one method is any better than the other.

[iamshack]

English professors would disagree with you. There's a lot of critical thinking that you just don't need to do anymore with literature. If you have a book report project, you go read the internet for 10 minutes, get about 100 ideas for your report, and you just use those ideas. You don't need to sit down and think about the text anymore.

 

I think it cuts both ways. I think it's amazing you can get those 100 ideas from different people so quickly. But at the same time you do lose that basic, fundamental ability to think on your own as well. It's the same argument about teaching math versus just giving a kid a calculator. At some point it becomes pointless to do long division or whatever by hand when it can be done in 2 seconds with a calculator. But you still need to teach those skills up to a certain point.

Hmm...I disagree...ultimately, the goal is still to improve the quality of the end result. If I can access 50 sources instead of 10 because accessing the source data electronically is five times more efficient than digging through books in a library, then I can consume more source data. I can have a more well-thought out paper because of the additional viewpoints.

 

I understand the math argument, because in some tasks there are practical skills one can benefit from learning.

 

But I am not sure there is utility in knowing how to dig through a library if no one digs through libraries anymore.

 

Sort of like yes, I would like to be able to drive a manual transmission, but if I'll never drive a manual transmission car again because they are hardly manufactured anymore, knowing how to drive one is of little use to me.

 

So I guess ultimately, the issue is framed as "how practical is the skill learned from doing the task in a less efficient manner"?

 

I don't know that old school research skills are particularly practical in this day and age anymore.

 

Now if the power grid goes down like in Revolution...

Edited December 27, 2012 by iamshack

[chw42]

Where the hell would I be without Google and Wikipedia? Flipping through giant reference books? f*** that s***.

[iamshack]

Where the hell would I be without Google and Wikipedia? Flipping through giant reference books? f*** that s***.

I actually took a course for a semester in college that taught us how to most efficiently use a library. Most of those skills are now useless or forgotten, basically due to atrophy. That is not to say that there is nothing to be gained from actually going to a library and reading books. There is. But it isn't all that necessary in today's world. I haven't been to a library since 2007, when I graduated law school.

[Jenksismyhero]

The argument isn't whether google making it faster to research is the problem, it's the critical thinking aspect that's the problem. In my field (law) it's obviously 1000 times easier to do legal research via online databases than physically picking up books from a library shelf. The issue becomes when I start relying on secondary sources where other people have done the step of reviewing the cases for me. I start relying on what other people think and write and stop doing the work myself. That can happen in school environments constantly and it's setting up kids to not think about what they're doing because they can rely on someone else to do that for them.

 

Edit: if you graduated law school then you'll know what i'm talking about. I can either research a topic of law on my own, or I can rely on secondary sources like American Jurisprudence 2nd or Illinois Civil Practice and "learn" the issue, but not fully.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Jenksismybitch

[Balta1701]

The argument isn't whether google making it faster to research is the problem, it's the critical thinking aspect that's the problem. In my field (law) it's obviously 1000 times easier to do legal research via online databases than physically picking up books from a library shelf. The issue becomes when I start relying on secondary sources where other people have done the step of reviewing the cases for me. I start relying on what other people think and write and stop doing the work myself. That can happen in school environments constantly and it's setting up kids to not think about what they're doing because they can rely on someone else to do that for them.

This is a good insight and it makes me think of the next question...does "picking up an encyclopedia" really develop critical thinking skills more than going to Wikipedia/Google?

 

I'd say the answer is probably no. Being able to turn around information on those sources might well be even more useful at developing critical thinking skills, because you're interpreting data more quickly....but either way, critical thinking development is a different tack from having to go to a book.

[farmteam]

Edit: if you graduated law school then you'll know what i'm talking about. I can either research a topic of law on my own, or I can rely on secondary sources like American Jurisprudence 2nd or Illinois Civil Practice and "learn" the issue, but not fully.

I've been taught to use these types of sources as starting points for my research -- get a bunch of general info on the topic, but then drill down to the point where I'm looking at the actual cases myself.

[iamshack]

This is a good insight and it makes me think of the next question...does "picking up an encyclopedia" really develop critical thinking skills more than going to Wikipedia/Google?

 

I'd say the answer is probably no. Being able to turn around information on those sources might well be even more useful at developing critical thinking skills, because you're interpreting data more quickly....but either way, critical thinking development is a different tack from having to go to a book.

Well this is the point I have been trying to make.

 

I think it is generally exchanging one research methodology for another one, neither necessarily better than the other.

 

Ultimately, I think there is something to be said for returning to the source data of a subject matter sometimes, and anything you are genuinely interested in or that is extremely important to you, I think one would do so. But for every day life, not really.

[farmteam]

Ultimately, I think there is something to be said for returning to the source data of a subject matter sometimes, and anything you are genuinely interested in or that is extremely important to you, I think one would do so. But for every day life, not really.

I agree. Not necessarily useful for everyday stuff, but for when you really need to actually look at original source material, you're going to benefit by having those critical thinking skills Jenks is talking about.