Google Generation

[iamshack]

I agree. Not necessarily useful for everyday stuff, but for when you really need to actually look at original source material, you're going to benefit by having those critical thinking skills Jenks is talking about.

Yeah, I am just not sure there are "critical thinking skills" associated with doing research using primary sources. Research skills, perhaps...but there are also research skills one develops when doing online research. I don't necessarily see what critical skills arise and develop from digging through physical libraries or books that are absent when doing online research.

[farmteam]

Yeah, I am just not sure there are "critical thinking skills" associated with doing research using primary sources. Research skills, perhaps...but there are also research skills one develops when doing online research. I don't necessarily see what critical skills arise and develop from digging through physical libraries or books that are absent when doing online research.

Ah, so are you saying these critical thinking skills could be just as easily (if not better) honed by just reading a novel and analyzing it? Essentially that the secondary research itself doesn't really help with critical thinking skills?

 

If that's what you're saying, I agree to an extent -- but there's still value in learning how to evaluate secondary sources, which is a critical thinking skill in itself.

[iamshack]

Ah, so are you saying these critical thinking skills could be just as easily (if not better) honed by just reading a novel and analyzing it? Essentially that the secondary research itself doesn't really help with critical thinking skills?

 

If that's what you're saying, I agree to an extent -- but there's still value in learning how to evaluate secondary sources, which is a critical thinking skill in itself.

No...I am saying the primary sources are available online usually as well...just in electronic form as opposed to physical form.

 

Many times things are just better organized electronically, because they can be recalled instantaneously. I thought where Jenks was going was to say critical thinking skills develop from having to find the primary sources themselves and go from there as opposed to having the tendency to just read some schmoe's rehashing of the topic that is instantly available on the internet.

 

That is not how I research electronically though if the subject matter is at all import to me. I still try to find the primary sources, still try and arrive at my own conclusions, etc., etc.

 

I guess I see what you guys mean though if you're talking about me doing a book report now and just pulling up some other guy's report and plagiarizing it instead of reading the book myself.

[IlliniKrush]

No...I am saying the primary sources are available online usually as well...just in electronic form as opposed to physical form.

 

Many times things are just better organized electronically, because they can be recalled instantaneously. I thought where Jenks was going was to say critical thinking skills develop from having to find the primary sources themselves and go from there as opposed to having the tendency to just read some schmoe's rehashing of the topic that is instantly available on the internet.

 

That is not how I research electronically though if the subject matter is at all import to me. I still try to find the primary sources, still try and arrive at my own conclusions, etc., etc.

I guess I see what you guys mean though if you're talking about me doing a book report now and just pulling up some other guy's report and plagiarizing it instead of reading the book myself.

That's what we're getting at. I agree with your point, and it seems you agree with what we're saying too. I think we're all on the same page, but it's an interesting conversation.

 

I'm with you on finding information faster and easier, I think there's just two different things we're discussing here.

[farmteam]

That's what we're getting at. I agree with your point, and it seems you agree with what we're saying too. I think we're all on the same page, but it's an interesting conversation.

 

I'm with you on finding information faster and easier, I think there's just two different things we're discussing here.

Hah, definitely. By original primary sources I didn't necessarily going to find the dusty in the copy in the corner of the library -- the original copy of an opinion I can find on WestLaw or LexisNexis is just as good (better, because of all the associated research tools that come with it).

[iamshack]

That's what we're getting at. I agree with your point, and it seems you agree with what we're saying too. I think we're all on the same page, but it's an interesting conversation.

 

I'm with you on finding information faster and easier, I think there's just two different things we're discussing here.

Well, that is where the teachers and the schools need to require a better product out of their students.

 

They should adjust the curriculum so that students can't cheat. Require in-class exams on the book instead of a do-at-home book report.

[iamshack]

Hah, definitely. By original primary sources I didn't necessarily going to find the dusty in the copy in the corner of the library -- the original copy of an opinion I can find on WestLaw or LexisNexis is just as good (better, because of all the associated research tools that come with it).

Yeah, I guess I didn't think of it that way because doing that wouldn't really occur to me. I don't trust other people with things that are important to me...which is why I have a difficult time working on group projects

 

 

[mr_genius]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...ity-skills.html

 

 

 

Perhaps it's my old ass 30 years on this planet, but I totally get his point. I think the internet/google is an amazing tool that is making people smarter (no more need to debate over certain facts, just look them up instantly on your phone). But on the other hand, kids/people look stuff up on the internet instead of thinking for themselves or creating something for themselves.

 

Thoughts?

 

that's basically like saying that books make people dumb because they can just read them to learn stuff, rather than endless trial and error.

[Yoda]

I work for the IT department as a sysadmin in a university with well over 10k students and have yet to go a day without 'Googling' something. I'm in a field that requires efficient but timely solutions to services vital to students and staff. If I tried being creative, I'd probably screw things up more instead of reading an article or two from a Microsoft certified MVP. Picking up a 1000 page book on how to fully leverage Group Policy is not the most appealing answer either so I know I'm not being less creative I'm just thinking smart.

[Jake]

I research on a regular basis for academic purposes and I've gotta say that I only gain from the status quo. I can't always access what I need from my laptop, but I can find out that things exist that I'd otherwise never have known. In my bedroom I can look at everything that has ever even mentioned my desired topic, read much of these things online, perhaps stimulate the economy by buying the ebook, and at worst place an electronic order for an inter-library loan.

 

In the span of a day, I can construct a publish-ready draft/concept on a film I've never even seen before. With some googling, I can discover some low budget film from an obscure market, download it, overlay subtitles in VLC player, then access the full breadth of discourse about the film and/or pertinent subjects. I can't wait for the time when almost all the book length academic research is available in ebook form and I can make it completely feasible to have zero unproductive waiting time in my research and drafting.

[chw42]

I work for the IT department as a sysadmin in a university with well over 10k students and have yet to go a day without 'Googling' something. I'm in a field that requires efficient but timely solutions to services vital to students and staff. If I tried being creative, I'd probably screw things up more instead of reading an article or two from a Microsoft certified MVP. Picking up a 1000 page book on how to fully leverage Group Policy is not the most appealing answer either so I know I'm not being less creative I'm just thinking smart.

 

Yeah...people in CS are f***ed without Google. Imagine programming with a giant API reference book. Yuck.

[Quin]

Ban technology.

[Y2HH]

Now if the power grid goes down like in Revolution...

 

So long as everyone has perfectly cut and styled hair, as everyone in Revolution does -- somehow, without electricity -- all is fine. Apparently, losing electricity culls about 99.9% of the ugly people in the world. Sadly, that means most of you people are dead.

[Rowand44]

Google make smart Rowand.

[bigruss]

Google make smart Rowand.

Rowand don't know, Rowand only pawn in game of life.

[bmags]

that's basically like saying that books make people dumb because they can just read them to learn stuff, rather than endless trial and error.

 

Though snarky, I think this cuts to the heart of the point. I think it's possible the internet accelerates the poor learning behavior jenks is worried about. But that behavior was there prior to the internet. The difference between students regurgitating 50 online sources now, is only different in that they previously regurgitated 10 print sources. American students were trained to do 1 thing, navigate what you need to do to get a good grade. Sometiems the teacher sets this up so they learn a lot, others it sets it up so the student is just hustling in the class.

[iamshack]

Though snarky, I think this cuts to the heart of the point. I think it's possible the internet accelerates the poor learning behavior jenks is worried about. But that behavior was there prior to the internet. The difference between students regurgitating 50 online sources now, is only different in that they previously regurgitated 10 print sources. American students were trained to do 1 thing, navigate what you need to do to get a good grade. Sometiems the teacher sets this up so they learn a lot, others it sets it up so the student is just hustling in the class.

Agreed...I have had classes where the teacher allowed students to regurgitate other sources rather than actually read the work at hand, and then I have had classes where teachers recognized students would do that, and therefore had students arrange all the secondary sources and report on those as well.

 

The schools and the teachers need to adjust to the changing landscape of technology as much as the students do.

[Quin]

Rowand don't know, Rowand only pawn in game of life.