2013 TV Thread

[Chicago White Sox]

Yeah I can't think of a ton of major mysteries that they didn't explain by the end of the show.

 

edit: a good read

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/108-answers-to...ered-questions/

Surely you're not serious? And that article is a joke right? I mean, using "magic" as the answer to any unanswered question is pretty ridiculous.

[StrangeSox]

I still think they tried to make too many episodes of Lost . The good thing about Breaking bad is there was always an end point and better yet the entire story was completed before the series even began shooting.

 

They knew where they ultimately wanted to go with Walt, but most of the episode plots evolved over the course of a season, e.g. Jesse was supposed to die in Season 1.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah I can't think of a ton of major mysteries that they didn't explain by the end of the show.

 

edit: a good read

 

http://www.cracked.com/blog/108-answers-to...ered-questions/

 

They "explained" some things but basically the whole first three or four seasons ended up being completely irrelevant to the end of the show. All of the mystery around Dharma, the one lady's dad's company, the bunkers, all of it really meant absolutely nothing by the end.

 

eta: that article is horrible. Every "answer" is basically "who cares" or "magic," i.e. not actually answers at all.

 

eta2: this is a good comment on that article. You can suspend disbelief and accept magic, unique physics, etc. in a story as long as it's internally coherent. I've no problem with magic and dragons in ASOAIF (GoT) because Martin took the time to establish the rules of his universe and stick to them. By the end, Lost was one deus ex machina after silly idea after another.

Edited September 27, 2013 by StrangeSox

[Harry Chappas]

They knew where they ultimately wanted to go with Walt, but most of the episode plots evolved over the course of a season, e.g. Jesse was supposed to die in Season 1.

 

I did not mean they literally had every script written I just meant the story arc was completed.

 

I really hope that the Walking Dead has an end point

 

[juddling]

Prison break jumped the shark real early for me.

 

 

Sopranos is still numba one for me. #2 is Seinfeld.

 

 

Vic Mackey would like a word with you........lol

 

personally Vic Mackey > Tony Soprano

[Jenksismyhero]

Surely you're not serious? And that article is a joke right? I mean, using "magic" as the answer to any unanswered question is pretty ridiculous.

 

Pretty sure that's the point - they didn't need to explain why things were the way they were, it just is. Martin doesn't need to explain how/why dragons exist in the GoT universe, you just go with it.

 

I totally agree that a lot of the stuff they brought up didn't necessarily fit with the world they ended up creating by the end, but I think that's just the nature of creating a story and having the network suits tell you that you need to extend the story out so they can get more episodes.

[Jenksismyhero]

They "explained" some things but basically the whole first three or four seasons ended up being completely irrelevant to the end of the show. All of the mystery around Dharma, the one lady's dad's company, the bunkers, all of it really meant absolutely nothing by the end.

eta: that article is horrible. Every "answer" is basically "who cares" or "magic," i.e. not actually answers at all.

 

eta2: this is a good comment on that article. You can suspend disbelief and accept magic, unique physics, etc. in a story as long as it's internally coherent. I've no problem with magic and dragons in ASOAIF (GoT) because Martin took the time to establish the rules of his universe and stick to them. By the end, Lost was one deus ex machina after silly idea after another.

 

I disagree. It was part of the world. It was part of the island's story. All of that stuff happened. It was all experiences that the characters had on the island. Why does that have to fit into the larger story of "what the hell is going on?"

 

I agree with the second bolded. But everyone bought into it right up until the finale.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Pretty sure that's the point - they didn't need to explain why things were the way they were, it just is. Martin doesn't need to explain how/why dragons exist in the GoT universe, you just go with it.

 

That's not the same at all. GOT is a fantasy world. Dragons were an established element of the universe - their presence was not mysterious. The origins of dragons was 0% of why people read the books or watched the show.

 

Lost takes place in what is presented as the real world. The crazy things that happened were mysterious and this was the *primary hook* of the show. Viewers were waiting for interesting and well-written solutions to the mysteries and we got bupkis.

 

 

 

 

I totally agree that a lot of the stuff they brought up didn't necessarily fit with the world they ended up creating by the end, but I think that's just the nature of creating a story and having the network suits tell you that you need to extend the story out so they can get more episodes.

 

I think that's the nature of creating a story without bothering to care if you have an end-game or not.

[StrangeSox]

I disagree. It was part of the world. It was part of the island's story. All of that stuff happened. It was all experiences that the characters had on the island. Why does that have to fit into the larger story of "what the hell is going on?"

 

I agree with the second bolded. But everyone bought into it right up until the finale.

 

See, the last sentence is exactly what's wrong with the first section of your post.

 

Lost was a 'mystery,' plot-driven show. It was presented as if they were giving you all of these different puzzle pieces for you to figure out, and eventually it'll all (mostly) make sense by the end as more and more is revealed. Except the problem was that most of the stuff was completely irrelevant other than providing a sense of "mystery" for whatever episode they threw it in and was never relevant again.

 

I accept that "dragons just exist" in ASOIAF, but they're pretty key plot elements. They didn't appear in the first and second books and then just vanish in the background. Lost repeatedly broke Chekhov's rule that goes "remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." There was so much there that, ultimately, had zero relevance to the story.

 

Compare the way Lost presented itself to Pulp Fiction or Ronin. Those movies had a briefcase whose contents were never revealed but still drove the plot. The difference is that those movies never pretended to be mystery movies that would give the viewers clues along the way as to what was in the case or how its contents all tied back to the rest of the plot. The contents were irrelevant. If you remove the mystery element of Lost, though, you're left with a cheesy soap opera.

[StrangeSox]

That's not the same at all. GOT is a fantasy world. Dragons were an established element of the universe - their presence was not mysterious. The origins of dragons was 0% of why people read the books or watched the show.

 

Lost takes place in what is presented as the real world. The crazy things that happened were mysterious and this was the *primary hook* of the show. Viewers were waiting for interesting and well-written solutions to the mysteries and we got bupkis.

 

GoT also has it's own internal logic and rules for how magic works. It's not reality, but it's not just complete randomness explained away by "magic" that never makes any sense.

 

Lost didn't need a scientific, real-world explanation, but it needed a story arc that didn't render most of the plot lines irrelevant and/or contradictory.

[StrangeSox]

I did not mean they literally had every script written I just meant the story arc was completed.

 

I don't know how much Vince Gilligan really had beyond building a boring, blend-into-the-wall Walt into a drug kingpin and then showing his undoing. I'm sure there were some general elements, like Hank finding him out, but a lot of the story has been crafted as it's gone on. There was an interview in GQ Bryan Cranston, and it included quotes from VG about how they'd throw out something early in a season knowing where they wanted to go but not really knowing yet how they would get there.

 

The Breaking Bad writers' room was known as one of the more collaborative in television. ("The worst thing the French ever gave us was the auteur theory," Gilligan said. "It's horses***.") That spirit applied even to crafting The End, the exact nature of which was undecided for longer than you might expect. "A lot was still in play. You'd be surprised at how much," he says. "There were moments that we thought would be very provocative and evocative and interesting, but we didn't know their exact full meaning yet. We figured we'd make it up later."

 

As had happened several times over the course of seasons, the group had set themselves a destination—in the first episode of season five, a flash-forward, we see Walt far from home, with a full head of hair, on his fifty-second birthday—without a clear sense of how they were going to get there. Think of it as Chekhov, with his imprecation about guns appearing in the first act needing to be fired by the third, as hair-raising hedge against writer's block. In this case, the gun was entirely literal: an M60 assault weapon in Walt's trunk.

 

 

 

Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/celebritie...6#ixzz2g7v0TVO8

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I don't know how much Vince Gilligan really had beyond building a boring, blend-into-the-wall Walt into a drug kingpin and then showing his undoing. I'm sure there were some general elements, like Hank finding him out, but a lot of the story has been crafted as it's gone on. There was an interview in GQ Bryan Cranston, and it included quotes from VG about how they'd throw out something early in a season knowing where they wanted to go but not really knowing yet how they would get there.

 

 

 

 

 

Read More http://www.gq.com/entertainment/celebritie...6#ixzz2g7v0TVO8

 

 

Some of the major characters that were never to be major were obvious Jesse Pinkman, who was supposed to die 6 episodes in to the show, and Mike, who was never supposed to exist, but the writers made him up on the spot because Bob Odenkirk was not available to shoot the scene at Jesse's apartment where they clean up Jane's death. Jonathan Banks happen to be there and then an amazing and long-living character was born.

[ILMOU]

Vic Mackey would like a word with you........lol

 

personally Vic Mackey > Tony Soprano

 

At the end of the day, I wound up preferring the Shield to the Sopranos, primarily because of the compelling Mackey, but also because of how they wrapped it up - a fitting ending for Vic and Shane.

 

My ranking of serial dramas:

1. BB

2. Shield

3. Sopranos

4. Wire

 

Other favorite show:

Rockford Files (mainly for the love of Garner's Rockford and Stuart Margolin's Angel Martin)

 

Many others discussed here I haven't seen.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Stan Bahnsen

[Rowand44]

I haven't seen The Sopranos or The Wire and never finished The Shield but the consenus anywhere you look seems to be that all those shows despite being fantastic all had a bad season or two mixed in, where BB has just been fantastic from start to finish here(obviously depending on the actual ending).

Edited September 27, 2013 by Rowand44

[Jenksismyhero]

See, the last sentence is exactly what's wrong with the first section of your post.

 

Lost was a 'mystery,' plot-driven show. It was presented as if they were giving you all of these different puzzle pieces for you to figure out, and eventually it'll all (mostly) make sense by the end as more and more is revealed. Except the problem was that most of the stuff was completely irrelevant other than providing a sense of "mystery" for whatever episode they threw it in and was never relevant again.

 

I accept that "dragons just exist" in ASOIAF, but they're pretty key plot elements. They didn't appear in the first and second books and then just vanish in the background. Lost repeatedly broke Chekhov's rule that goes "remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." There was so much there that, ultimately, had zero relevance to the story.

 

Compare the way Lost presented itself to Pulp Fiction or Ronin. Those movies had a briefcase whose contents were never revealed but still drove the plot. The difference is that those movies never pretended to be mystery movies that would give the viewers clues along the way as to what was in the case or how its contents all tied back to the rest of the plot. The contents were irrelevant. If you remove the mystery element of Lost, though, you're left with a cheesy soap opera.

 

Eh, I think you're being a bit extreme. 90-95% of the mysteries and weird crap that came up was eventually explained in some way. I'm not sure what you think was ultimately irrelevant. Some things were emphasized more than they probably should have been, but that was mainly early plot points that were introduced and they were mostly explained later on (Walt/Michael's importance, Witmore's involvement, etc.) Yes, some huge portions of the story - like the Dharma initiative, Richard, or Jacob - didn't really have a reason for existing in the grand scheme, but so what? They were just a part of the ongoing "present" of the story. Why did Jack grow a beard? Why was Charlie a drug addict? Why was that necessary? I NEED TO KNOW THE ANSWER! Yes, some of the explanations/storylines were pretty stupid (like the origin of the smoke monster coming from the inside of the island with a magical fountain....or the entire Jacob reveal/continued storyline). But I dunno, I watched a show about a polar bear on an island coming through a time traveling portal, i'm not really going to get upset about small plot points introduced in 160 episodes that don't make total sense or seem relevant in the long run. I enjoyed the ride while it lasted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

GoT also has it's own internal logic and rules for how magic works. It's not reality, but it's not just complete randomness explained away by "magic" that never makes any sense.

 

Lost didn't need a scientific, real-world explanation, but it needed a story arc that didn't render most of the plot lines irrelevant and/or contradictory.

 

Can you throw out a few examples?

 

I'm conceding that some of the early stuff (again, Walt/Michael) were throw ins that didn't really go anywhere. The emphasis on The Others in the early seasons, in hindsight, was a bit of misdirection. But once the story got going and the writers got an end date to work with, what was totally irrelevant and/or contradictory?

[LittleHurt05]

Glad to see CT finally win, first time I rooted for Boston.

 

That food challenge was out of control, did not need to see that much vomit.

 

Watched the reunion just to see the punch, but that was a tough watch.

[juddling]

I haven't seen The Sopranos or The Wire and never finished The Shield but the consenus anywhere you look seems to be that all those shows despite being fantastic all had a bad season or two mixed in, where BB has just been fantastic from start to finish here(obviously depending on the actual ending).

 

Been a while since i saw the early seasons of The Shield but i don't recall any bad seasons.....a bad show or two....but not a bad seeason....

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Showtime has put Sunday's premiere of Masters of Sex up on Youtube. Just got done watching it. It's pretty interesting I think. I wouldn't say there was a ton of action, but obviously it was an introductory episode to the characters. As expected, lots of nudity and sex, and a good amount of humor too. I IGN review I read said the first 2 episodes are a little slower, but the show really takes off after Episode 3, and through the first 6 episodes that she saw, she loved it.

 

I'll keep watching.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxoEZBjRacU&oref

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Caught up with Ray Donovan tonight. It's a decent show, but it's slow at times, and Jon Voight's motives are really all over the place. He never seems to have a side.

 

I really like that Avi character though, I hope he returns next season. Also, I really enjoy how enthusiastic the black son is over Mick. That poor kid just doesn't even know who his father is, yet he is just so excited to have one, even though everyone tells him how awful he is.

[Steve9347]

Glad to see CT finally win, first time I rooted for Boston.

 

That food challenge was out of control, did not need to see that much vomit.

 

Watched the reunion just to see the punch, but that was a tough watch.

I also was glad to see CT get his W.

[Jenksismyhero]

Showtime has put Sunday's premiere of Masters of Sex up on Youtube. Just got done watching it. It's pretty interesting I think. I wouldn't say there was a ton of action, but obviously it was an introductory episode to the characters. As expected, lots of nudity and sex, and a good amount of humor too. I IGN review I read said the first 2 episodes are a little slower, but the show really takes off after Episode 3, and through the first 6 episodes that she saw, she loved it.

 

I'll keep watching.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxoEZBjRacU&oref

 

Sepinwall said it was the best new drama this fall. Im excited to see that, Homeland and Stephen Merchant‘s new show on HBO.

[Brian]

Finally watching LUTHER S3 on the DVR. So good.

[CrimsonWeltall]

Eh, I think you're being a bit extreme. 90-95% of the mysteries and weird crap that came up was eventually explained in some way. I'm not sure what you think was ultimately irrelevant. Some things were emphasized more than they probably should have been, but that was mainly early plot points that were introduced and they were mostly explained later on (Walt/Michael's importance, Witmore's involvement, etc.) Yes, some huge portions of the story - like the Dharma initiative, Richard, or Jacob - didn't really have a reason for existing in the grand scheme, but so what? They were just a part of the ongoing "present" of the story. Why did Jack grow a beard? Why was Charlie a drug addict? Why was that necessary? I NEED TO KNOW THE ANSWER! Yes, some of the explanations/storylines were pretty stupid (like the origin of the smoke monster coming from the inside of the island with a magical fountain....or the entire Jacob reveal/continued storyline). But I dunno, I watched a show about a polar bear on an island coming through a time traveling portal, i'm not really going to get upset about small plot points introduced in 160 episodes that don't make total sense or seem relevant in the long run. I enjoyed the ride while it lasted.

 

The main mystery towards the beginning was the weird island full of hatches/bunkers with the Dharma Initiative, which you admitted had no point. The main mystery later in the series was Jacob/Smokey/Magic Fountain, which you admitted was stupid.

 

So what important mysteries actually had GOOD payoffs?

[Rowand44]

It's Sunday and football is not the first thing on my mind.