Rick Hahn

[Marty34]

The Sox are that team in the middle that last offseason KW said he did not want to be. I don't think the next couple of years are going to be particularly fun to watch, but they have to wait until some contracts roll off the books to build an offense. Hopefully in that time they will have solidified their top 3 or 4 starters.

[Balta1701]

Can Kepplinger start at 3rd and be a Utility player at the same time? I agree that Sanchez will probably get the shot as a back up utility guy. There has been plenty of buzz about him!

There's not a lot of buzz about Angel Sanchez, are you thinking of Carlos Sanchez instead? He'll likely be starting in the minors this year, he's barely had any time above single-A ball, but he might well see the big squad this year if there's a need.

 

Keppinger clearly can't start at 3rd and be a utility player on the same day...but in the event someone hits the DL for a week or so, moving Keppinger to Short/2nd and calling up Morel is at least an option on the list, depending on how people are doing at Charlotte and if they pick up any veterans to play at AAA.

[GreatScott82]

The Sox are that team in the middle that last offseason KW said he did not want to be. I don't think the next couple of years are going to be particularly fun to watch, but they have to wait until some contracts roll off the books to build an offense. Hopefully in that time they will have solidified their top 3 or 4 starters.

Well put, Marty. I think this team is kind of in MLB hell...stuck with certain contracts that cant rid of and no true farm depth. I think the current MLB roster is as average is it truly gets. Now that 'average' label can change if any of these guys break out this year:

Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers or Viciedo.

 

We pretty much know what we will get from Konerko, Dunn, Keppinger and hopefully Rios.

[beck72]

Also, can our current roster compete with Detroit or even KC at this point? We will need multiple guys to have career years to do so. I just do not anticipate that happening. (I have been wrong before!) I would like Hahn to make a bold move. Take a risk. Its not like we have any guys on our major league roster (except Sale) that are untouchable.

I'm with you. Just to be competitive, the sox need guys to repeat what they did last year. I'd rather the sox take a risk or two with trades, esp. with Rios to upgrade the talent and potential. The sox right now have a decent floor--similar to last years, 85 win team. Yet their ceiling is limited.

[Balta1701]

I'm with you. Just to be competitive, the sox need guys to repeat what they did last year. I'd rather the sox take a risk or two with trades, esp. with Rios to upgrade the talent and potential. The sox right now have a decent floor--similar to last years, 85 win team. Yet their ceiling is limited.

Why would a team take on Rios's remaining salary obligations while giving the White Sox anything useful back?

[southsider2k5]

Who is the backup catcher? Utility infielder?

 

Also, can our current roster compete with Detroit or even KC at this point? We will need multiple guys to have career years to do so. I just do not anticipate that happening. (I have been wrong before!) I would like Hahn to make a bold move. Take a risk. Its not like we have any guys on our major league roster (except Sale) that are untouchable.

 

The Tigers I can accept, but the Royals need many career years to compete.

[Chicago White Sox]

Why would a team take on Rios's remaining salary obligations while giving the White Sox anything useful back?

Did you see what free agent outfielders were going for in free agency?

[Chicago White Sox]

The Sox are that team in the middle that last offseason KW said he did not want to be. I don't think the next couple of years are going to be particularly fun to watch, but they have to wait until some contracts roll off the books to build an offense. Hopefully in that time they will have solidified their top 3 or 4 starters.

We were 7th in runs scored last year, let's not pretend we have a bad offense.

 

And let's be honest, this team's strength is its pitching and defense. We had one of the better defenses in baseball last year and it should only get better next season with the changes we've made. The starting pitching is the big wild card for us, but it has the potential to be one of the best in the game.

 

People can continue to hate on this team if they want, but there's more than enough talent on the roster to win the division.

[southsider2k5]

Did you see what free agent outfielders were going for in free agency?

 

A lot of the Sox "bad' contracts don't look nearly as bad after this off season. A guy like Rios is tradable now.

[Balta1701]

A lot of the Sox "bad' contracts don't look nearly as bad after this off season. A guy like Rios is tradable now.

I'm not saying he's unmovable right now.

 

I'm saying he's movable, but not for a very high return. You're not going to get Rios's ready to step in replacement by trading Rios, Floyd, or any other expensive piece on our roster.

 

If you want to move Rios, you better be comfortable with Jordan Danks or Dewayne Wise as your starting RF, because you're not finding anything better to cover it in free agency, and our system doesn't have anyone who can.

[Marty34]

Well put, Marty. I think this team is kind of in MLB hell...stuck with certain contracts that cant rid of and no true farm depth. I think the current MLB roster is as average is it truly gets. Now that 'average' label can change if any of these guys break out this year:

Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers or Viciedo.

 

We pretty much know what we will get from Konerko, Dunn, Keppinger and hopefully Rios.

 

Things could really get ugly if Konerko is who he was the second half, Dunn, Rios regress, and Danks isn't recovered from his surgery. All reasonably within the realm of possibility. They have a better chance of losing 90 games than winning 90.

[Balta1701]

Things could really get ugly if Konerko is who he was the second half, Dunn, Rios regress, and Danks isn't recovered from his surgery. All reasonably within the realm of possibility. They have a better chance of losing 90 games than winning 90.

So it's more likely that this team will be 15 games worse than 5 games better?

 

There you go again.

[Marty34]

So it's more likely that this team will be 15 games worse than 5 games better?

 

There you go again.

 

Your post is in line with the mods. Yes, I believe this team has a better chance to lose 90 than to win 90 because of age/health issues.

[Balta1701]

Your post is in line with the mods. Yes, I believe this team has a better chance to lose 90 than to win 90 because of age/health issues.

Going in to last season, the White Sox had the 9th youngest roster in the league. And with Pierzynski swapping for Flowers and continuing addition of Youth in the pen, they have not gotten much older on average either. Maybe a little bit because Wise is the backup OF, but that's about it.

 

This is actually a great example of the kind of pessimistic garbage I keep crapping on. You come up with a list of things that could go right and a list of things that could go wrong. Danks being healthy/struggling again, Sale winning the Cy Young/putting up an ERA of 5 by being tired, Konerko continuing his reliability/getting hurt.

 

For no reason, or at least none that is ever explained, it's then asserted that the bad ones are > 3 times more likely to happen than the good ones.

 

Great example. Perfect actually. The bad things are much more likely to happen...because they're the bad things.

[Eminor3rd]

Why would a team take on Rios's remaining salary obligations while giving the White Sox anything useful back?

 

You don't think Rios at 3/36 has value? I think he'd beat that on free agency this year.

 

That being said, I'm not supporting the idea of trading him.

[Balta1701]

You don't think Rios at 3/36 has value? I think he'd beat that on free agency this year.

 

That being said, I'm not supporting the idea of trading him.

Yes, he has value. I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm saying his contract is movable, but if a team is going to give up real legit talent for an OF signed for 3/$36...they may as well go get Justin Upton.

 

If you wanted to sell Rios off now, you could get something for him. That's a big change from last year when he might not have gotten a major league offer if the Sox released him, but you're not getting a guy who is ready to step in as a starter for him.

[Marty34]

Going in to last season, the White Sox had the 9th youngest roster in the league. And with Pierzynski swapping for Flowers and continuing addition of Youth in the pen, they have not gotten much older on average either. Maybe a little bit because Wise is the backup OF, but that's about it.

 

This is actually a great example of the kind of pessimistic garbage I keep crapping on. You come up with a list of things that could go right and a list of things that could go wrong. Danks being healthy/struggling again, Sale winning the Cy Young/putting up an ERA of 5 by being tired, Konerko continuing his reliability/getting hurt.

 

For no reason, or at least none that is ever explained, it's then asserted that the bad ones are > 3 times more likely to happen than the good ones.

 

Great example. Perfect actually. The bad things are much more likely to happen...because they're the bad things.

 

You had the team losing 90 games last offseason. now you are anti-pessimism?

[Bubba Philips]

You don't think Rios at 3/36 has value? I think he'd beat that on free agency this year.

 

That being said, I'm not supporting the idea of trading him.

Rios surprised even himself last year. I would gamble that 2013 Rios stats will be at least the same or better than last year's stats.

[Balta1701]

You had the team losing 90 games last offseason. now you are anti-pessimism?

Yes. And the team wound up winning 85 games with a similar roster, which is now more potent on paper since it no longer has the gaping hole at 3b and since we have some idea of which bullpen rookies we can trust.

 

That team had a ton of things go wrong with it and won 85 games. Danks got hurt. Morel was terrible for 2 months because of injury. Youkilis put up a sub -.350 OBP. Dunn could barely hit .200. They ran through to their 10th starting pitcher for a game because no one else was a plausible option. They gave innings to guys like Septimo to see what they could do. Reed was exhausted in the 2nd half. Quintana was exhausted in the 2nd half. Sale was exhausted around the AS break. Ramirez had a really bad season for him.

 

The natural thing to do, with a similar roster, would be to recalibrate to 85 as a starting point, since that's what happened last year. For them to be 15 games worse, not only those kind of things would have to happen, but a whole lot more would have to happen. For them to be 3-4 games better...that same list of things could happen, except Danks not getting hurt and Keppinger being not the worst 3b in history.

 

I said that team could lose 90 last year, and they had a pretty low ceiling. They almost reached what I thought their ceiling was. The same guys are now a year older, there's a lot more depth particularly in the pitching, and for a young team, that means the ceiling is a lot higher.

[Marty34]

Yes. And the team wound up winning 85 games with a similar roster, which is now more potent on paper since it no longer has the gaping hole at 3b and since we have some idea of which bullpen rookies we can trust.

 

That team had a ton of things go wrong with it and won 85 games. Danks got hurt. Morel was terrible for 2 months because of injury. Youkilis put up a sub -.350 OBP. Dunn could barely hit .200. They ran through to their 10th starting pitcher for a game because no one else was a plausible option. They gave innings to guys like Septimo to see what they could do. Reed was exhausted in the 2nd half. Quintana was exhausted in the 2nd half. Sale was exhausted around the AS break. Ramirez had a really bad season for him.

 

The natural thing to do, with a similar roster, would be to recalibrate to 85 as a starting point, since that's what happened last year. For them to be 15 games worse, not only those kind of things would have to happen, but a whole lot more would have to happen. For them to be 3-4 games better...that same list of things could happen, except Danks not getting hurt and Keppinger being not the worst 3b in history.

 

Sale and Peavy's workloads last year are reason's for pause when thinking this team can win 90 games as well as Konerko's second half.

 

In my opinion for the Sox to have a chance to contend, Sale and Peavy have to equal last year's performances and Danks has to have a career best season as I believe the offense is likely to regress. I have a difficult time seeing that happening.

[Balta1701]

Sale and Peavy's workloads last year are reason's for pause when thinking this team can win 90 games as well as Konerko's second half.

 

In my opinion for the Sox to have a chance to contend, Sale and Peavy have to equal last year's performances and Danks has to have a career best season as I believe the offense is likely to regress. I have a difficult time seeing that happening.

Great. You did exactly what I just said. You listed a couple of the possible bad things that could happen...assumed that they were very likely to do so, and then assumed that nothing else would go right to offset those things. No improvement from the bullpen, no improvement from the other starters thanks to additional rotation depth, no help from Quintana being there, no help from better defense at 3b, etc.

 

List the bad things, assume they'll happen, and assert that none of the possible good things that could offset them will happen. You just repeated the script I laid out.

[The Ginger Kid]

Sale and Peavy's workloads last year are reason's for pause when thinking this team can win 90 games as well as Konerko's second half.

Ah, the "Verducci effect." Haven't seen much discussion about that and Chris Sale, at least not yet.

[Marty34]

Great. You did exactly what I just said. You listed a couple of the possible bad things that could happen...assumed that they were very likely to do so, and then assumed that nothing else would go right to offset those things. No improvement from the bullpen, no improvement from the other starters thanks to additional rotation depth, no help from Quintana being there, no help from better defense at 3b, etc.

 

List the bad things, assume they'll happen, and assert that none of the possible good things that could offset them will happen. You just repeated the script I laid out.

 

I'm assuming improvement from the pen.

 

[elrockinMT]

Hahn has filled the holes the Sox have already. At least in terms of the major league roster.

 

You may not like the guys he's filled them with, but if the season started today, they can field a full roster with an obvious starter and backup at each position, a rotation 6+ deep, and a full bullpen.

 

 

I know people call for trades and question the line up, but really we are basically where we were in 2012. Possibly-yet to be determined obviously- less offense at catcher and better at 3B even if Keppinger starts. I would like to see a 3B move, but can live with who is on the roster now. We have pitching but no team in my opinion ever has enough. Plus another good player on the bench never hurt either.

[Balta1701]

I'm assuming improvement from the pen.

And yet somehow you say that it's more likely that this team will be 15 games worse than 5 games better.

 

I guess the only thing I can take from this is that you're planning to assassinate the entire starting pitching staff.