Rick Hahn

[southsider2k5]

Forbes magazine is a reliable source.

 

From the Forbes 2012 team valuations article on the Sox.

 

The White Sox have been expanding their retail operations to boost revenue. Last year the team opened up Bacardi at the Park, a new restaurant across the street from U.S. Cellular Field. The Illinois Sports Facilities Commission, which built the stadium, paid $3.2 million for the construction of the new, 10,000 square foot, upscale restaurant, but the White Sox keep all the profits. The team also opened up a store late last year, the Chicago Sports Depot, which will sell sports apparel and paraphernalia across from the South Side stadium. The White Sox’s lease with the ISFA, which allows the team to keep all profits from team-run operations on state-owned property, runs through 2029. Owner Jerry Reinsdorf has been reinvesting the revenue gains in the team, increasing payroll 12% over 2010, to $126 million by the end of the 2011 season.

[southsider2k5]

You haven't explained how a group of owners could turn that equity into liquid cash.

 

Do they all sell some portion of their stake to generate cash? If so, what if the new ownership group opposes that spending because they aren't as charitable as you want them to be?

 

Does one owner do so and then give the cash to the team as a gift? Why?

 

Do they take out a loan against the value of the team, effectively giving a financial institution a portion of the control over the team? (Because the bank, in that case, would be very unlikely to allow the team to operate at a revenue deficit for even a short time).

 

That none of them are practical options with even a basic understanding of financial accounting? You're correct.

 

Historical citation needed here. I am on the same page as Balta.

[southsider2k5]

We're fine with outfield prospects, the biggest issue for this organization in the last decade has been developing catchers (of course, with AJ, they didn't absolute have to produce one, so they traded for Flowers) and infielders (3B, SS, 2B).

 

We "lucked" into Ramirez and unfortunately failed in our project of making Viciedo a 3B, where his offense would have been a huge plus. Uribe/Crede turned into Teahen/Viciedo/Vizquel, into Morel, into Hudson/Youk, into Keppinger. Not a lot of stability over there.

 

Sanchez definitely looks very promising, but he still has to prove last year wasn't a fluke.

 

When you project the 2013 season, the biggest risk right now is the failure of Tyler Flowers to stick as the everyday catcher. If that happens, then they're in a world of hurt. A lof of the offensive pressure will be on both Flowers and Beckham (and Dayan) to pick up the offensive slack.

 

And there has to be at least MILD concern about DeAza making the readjustment back to everyday play in CF, both psychologically and in terms of the wear and tear on his body playing 150+ games at that position.

 

How did we luck into Ramirez?

[caulfield12]

How did we luck into Ramirez?

 

 

I meant in the sense nobody bid against us (or maybe it was only the Indians), and that 10-12 major league teams perceived him as more of a utility/bench player than a legit starter and the rest didn't even bother to scout him at all.

 

We didn't "develop" him per se, and we certainly didn't get as big a bargain a year later with Viciedo because of the complete lack of hype that the unnoticed Ramirez signing failed to get the first time...the microscope was definitely on the rest of MLB not to make the same mistake twice.

 

Still, it's the main reason we've survived the past 10-12 years, our scouting internationally and of other MLB teams and scouring their minor league rosters.

 

Maybe not luck...we were able to temporarily exploit an advantage, and partially due to the presence of Contreras and El Duque in 2005. And the common bonds among the agent and the Sox front office/Cuban players.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Back to the baseball side of things, what is really annoying me about this offseason is that we were in prime position to better set us up for the future and we have done absolutely nothing (I'm not counting Peavy because that's all him; Sox lowballed him & he took it). Keppinger is the only move and that's probably a bad deal in 1.5-2 years anyway.

 

Thornton, Crain, and Floyd all should have had some value for sure. It's doubtful any of them are getting the QO and the Sox seem pretty likely to be a middling team that does just enough to keep the parts into August but not enough to really threaten for the division. We'll probably lose all 3 for nothing after the year when they could have brought back a couple decent (if unspectacular) prospects/projects, especially if some cash is included.

 

Selling high on Rios may have been an option. We really don't know. It's hard to have faith in him and it's disappointing he's still here.

 

At least the DBacks had interest in Alexei Ramirez. If we had a shot at moving his contract now and we still didn't, then there's a good chance that was a real big mistake.

 

Maybe the worst part is hearing that DeAza & Viciedo are apparently not in the Sox long-term plans and yet they too are still here. Why? Viciedo I understand if the offers weren't there, as you don't want to give up that potential for so little, but DeAza? What are the odds he stays healthy and repeats or betters his performance? He's a LF who wants to play LF and you already think he's getting expensive, so you keep him? Strange.

 

Hahn's offseason has been garbage. There was a fork in the road and instead of picking a direction he pulled off the road and took a nap. Now Soxtalk is all "me against the mods" and more bulls*** about attendance and ownership. It's all because of you Rick Hahn. Wake up.

[bigruss]

Soxtalk is not "me against the mods", it's ridiculous posters who want change for change sake and disregard reason vs realists.

Edited January 15, 2013 by bigruss22

[LittleHurt05]

How did we luck into Ramirez?

 

 

If he was on the Tigers, it would be due to the dilligence and skill of their scouting department, not luck,

[caulfield12]

If he was on the Tigers, it would be due to the dilligence and skill of their scouting department, not luck,

 

 

Nope, they've spent a lot more unwisely over the last decade than the White Sox.

 

However, having Verlander, Scherzer, Cabrera, Austin Jackson and now Fielder cancels out a majority of the stupid financial decisions they've made....

[Chicago White Sox]

Nope, they've spent a lot more unwisely over the last decade than the White Sox.

 

However, having Verlander, Scherzer, Cabrera, Austin Jackson and now Fielder cancels out a majority of the stupid financial decisions they've made....

Fielder will quickly turn into a stupid financial decision.

[Kyyle23]

Fielder will quickly turn into a stupid financial decision.

 

His dad managed to have a pretty long and very good career carrying around the extra weight, I think Prince will be ok.

[Balta1701]

His dad managed to have a pretty long and very good career carrying around the extra weight, I think Prince will be ok.

His dad only played until he was 34 and his last full season was when he was 32.

[NorthSideSox72]

His dad only played until he was 34 and his last full season was when he was 32.

Also, I don't recall Cecil every being as hefty/stocky as Prince is. Prince is listed as 5'11" and 275, but his dad was 6'3", and he weighed less.

 

[Dick Allen]

His dad only played until he was 34 and his last full season was when he was 32.

Yeah, I mentioned this a while ago. He may have a couple of really productive seasons left, but his gene pool suggests he isn't going to be anywhere near worth his contract the last 4 or 5 years of that deal.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

Also, I don't recall Cecil every being as hefty/stocky as Prince is. Prince is listed as 5'11" and 275, but his dad was 6'3", and he weighed less.

 

LOL @ 275.

[Kyyle23]

His dad only played until he was 34 and his last full season was when he was 32.

 

He played 13 years. Considering how big he was, that is pretty incredible.

[Balta1701]

He played 13 years. Considering how big he was, that is pretty incredible.

Prince is signed through his 16th year.

[southsider2k5]

FWIW, Prince will turn 34 during what would be his 14th year in the majors, 2018. It would still leave at least two full years on his contract, and $48 million.

[Kyyle23]

Prince is signed through his 15th year.

 

Cecil played a few years in Japan.

 

Lets keep arguing minor points its fun. Prince is gonna be a large DH, just like his dad

[Balta1701]

Cecil played a few years in Japan.

 

Lets keep arguing minor points its fun. Prince is gonna be a large DH, just like his dad

His dad was not really an effective player after age 32. I corrected my previous number, thought he was on an 8 year deal, checked and it was 9. Prince is signed through 36.

 

And the Tigers are going to wind up with a couple of large-DH's by the last few years of that deal.

[Dick Allen]

Cecil played until he was 34 but was breaking down before that. I would imagine the same thing might happen to Prince. I don't think there are very many teams that would take on his contract. He still should be productive for a while, but I think he has 8 more years on his contract. Of course he could always get in some sort of shape. I'm still waiting for someone to go on the DL with the gout. I do know David Wells missed starts with the gout, but wasn't DL'd.

[Kyyle23]

His dad was not really an effective player after age 32. I corrected my previous number, thought he was on an 8 year deal, checked and it was 9. Prince is signed through 36.

 

And the Tigers are going to wind up with a couple of large-DH's by the last few years of that deal.

 

Thats not really the point. The point is will Prince be effective? Considering Prince has done nothing but destroy MLB pitching since the moment he stepped into the league, and has remained reasonably healthy throughout his stay, I dont see why it is a foregone conclusion that he will just fall off.

 

Also, I sincerely doubt his dad had/sought out access to the same kind of health treatment that Prince currently does. While I doubt that Prince is a vegetarian like he says he is, I dont doubt that he keeps himself in better condition than his Dad did. His dad in slow motion was like watching the homer simpson softball episode.

[Dick Allen]

Thats not really the point. The point is will Prince be effective? Considering Prince has done nothing but destroy MLB pitching since the moment he stepped into the league, and has remained reasonably healthy throughout his stay, I dont see why it is a foregone conclusion that he will just fall off.

 

Also, I sincerely doubt his dad had/sought out access to the same kind of health treatment that Prince currently does. While I doubt that Prince is a vegetarian like he says he is, I dont doubt that he keeps himself in better condition than his Dad did. His dad in slow motion was like watching the homer simpson softball episode.

Prince has more girth than his dad, and whatever kind of condition he is in, eventually that weight on your joints takes a toll. I don't think its too crazy to look at his dad to try to determine when it might start going south for his son. It's not a guarantee, but it's a better tool than denial, and I would venture teams that were interested in signing him looked at it as well.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

And this isn't about whether or not he will completely fall apart, it's about the fact that they'll be paying Prince $24 million a season for several years when he's outside of his prime. To think he'll be anywhere close to the same player he is now, when he's 34, 35, & 36 seems crazy to me. I get why the Tigers signed him, but these 9 & 10 year contracts are going to end badly. Just look at the Arod deal. I'm sure the Tigers know there will be repercussions down the road for immediate benefit Prince provides.

[ZionrulZ]

Back to the baseball side of things, what is really annoying me about this offseason is that we were in prime position to better set us up for the future and we have done absolutely nothing (I'm not counting Peavy because that's all him; Sox lowballed him & he took it). Keppinger is the only move and that's probably a bad deal in 1.5-2 years anyway.

 

Thornton, Crain, and Floyd all should have had some value for sure. It's doubtful any of them are getting the QO and the Sox seem pretty likely to be a middling team that does just enough to keep the parts into August but not enough to really threaten for the division. We'll probably lose all 3 for nothing after the year when they could have brought back a couple decent (if unspectacular) prospects/projects, especially if some cash is included.

 

Selling high on Rios may have been an option. We really don't know. It's hard to have faith in him and it's disappointing he's still here.

 

At least the DBacks had interest in Alexei Ramirez. If we had a shot at moving his contract now and we still didn't, then there's a good chance that was a real big mistake.

 

Maybe the worst part is hearing that DeAza & Viciedo are apparently not in the Sox long-term plans and yet they too are still here. Why? Viciedo I understand if the offers weren't there, as you don't want to give up that potential for so little, but DeAza? What are the odds he stays healthy and repeats or betters his performance? He's a LF who wants to play LF and you already think he's getting expensive, so you keep him? Strange.

 

Hahn's offseason has been garbage. There was a fork in the road and instead of picking a direction he pulled off the road and took a nap. Now Soxtalk is all "me against the mods" and more bulls*** about attendance and ownership. It's all because of you Rick Hahn. Wake up.

 

 

Amen brother!

[witesoxfan]

Another "should have traded everyone post." Awesome. Those have gotten to the point where they've joined any number of other pipedream scenarios on this board, except that I don't know why it should be a pipedream considering the track record of blowing teams up.

Edited January 15, 2013 by witesoxfan