Rick Hahn

[Eminor3rd]

Kenny made some questionable deals that didn't pan out and he also made some excellent deals that really improved the team. The point being Kenny had the cahones to do a deal. He was never content with the roster and he was always looking for a way to make the team on the field better. Dumping AJ and adding Keppinger is a wash at best. Will Danks be ready for opening day, who knows? Will Flowers hit his weight or will he continue to be a .205 hitter? Will Dunn not strike out 200 times? Will Tank stop swinging at pitches 6 inches outside the plate? Will Beckham hit like he actually belongs in the big leagues? Will Thornton not lose 10 games again? Will the Sox actually score runners from 3rd with less then 2 outs? I say we have alot of questions to answer to be considered serious contender to the always strong and improved Tigers. If Hahn adds some more talent we will have a fun summer but he has to prove to a lot of us that he is actually serious about winning this year, so far he has not !!!

 

But how do you know he hasn't tried? What if other teams are outbidding him in terms of talent/salary? Do you want him to overpay? I don't. I want him to make deals that make sense. It isn't about being risky, it's about determining how you value players and making an exchange of talent or money where you don't pay more than you think a guy is worth.

[Marty34]

I'm assuming this is a bit of a sarcastic question. Fans shouldn't be "punished" for not showing up to the games. We've discussed before that it's not just attendance that fuels a team's income. It's a big part of it, though. I think this might be one area where we agree (I think based on some of your previous posts). Many people, especially those with families, have better places to spend their money than at a baseball game. It's just so damn expensive anymore (as is attending a Bulls, Hawks, or Bears game). The Sox did drop prices, and that will help.

 

I suppose eventually if the fans continue to "not show up", they will be "punished" by their team not being able to go out and get those impact players that would make the team better.

 

Careful, the media and many of your fellow Sox fans would label you a whiner for a comment like that.

[witesoxfan]

Careful, the media and many of your fellow Sox fans would label you a whiner for a comment like that.

 

Stop it.

[Marty34]

Well it's a ridiculous question to ask. The burden for getting fans to the park is on the team, and the best way to do that is is to put a winning product out there ....

 

 

So, yes, bottom line, if the fans don't show up, the Sox won't spend money.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the burden lies with the team to attract fans. If the Sox don't spend money the burden still lies with them to get fans in the park.

[witesoxfan]

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the burden lies with the team to attract fans. If the Sox don't spend money the burden still lies with them to get fans in the park.

 

And that is why they still spend $100 million, even if they only get 85 wins and a 2nd place finish out of it - history has proven that a great sell-off and a lack of spending by the team in turn leads to a huge decrease in attendance.

[Marty34]

And that is why they still spend $100 million, even if they only get 85 wins and a 2nd place finish out of it - history has proven that a great sell-off and a lack of spending by the team in turn leads to a huge decrease in attendance.

 

I think we agree then the Sox get the attendance they deserve.

[caulfield12]

I think we agree then the Sox get the attendance they deserve.

 

 

That's usually true of almost ANY business.

 

Kind of like you get what you pay for...on the other hand, you seem to be taking issue with the fact that the team has skyrocketed in value (as have most teams in the last 3-5 years), and the ownership is not investing even more than $100-105 million.

 

So the real question is how many teams (not moving into new stadiums) consistently increase their payroll every year to keep up with those escalating franchise values...and some are assessing the White Sox as much closer to the $1-1.2 billion range than the more conservative estimates of $600 million...are there ANY that have done so?

 

You'll see one year blips (occasionally) from every team, like the Sox going into 2006 or 2011, but you hardly ever see 15-25% payroll increases year after year after year except for teams rebuilding from near the bottom of the payroll scale and over time escalating into a more competitive salary range. The White Sox have been in the top half for nearly the entire KW regime. We're not talking the Oakland A's here.

 

If you want the closest example of a team being in a similar situation to the White Sox from an economics standpoint, the deterioration of the Mariners fanbase when the organization tried to rebuild after a nearly decade of success matching or even bettering the Sox (no, they didn't win the WS, but they were more consistent) shows what can happen. Or Cleveland. Or Baltimore. Or Toronto. Or SD.

[Jerksticks]

The Yankees haven't done a damn thing and they're the Yankees! Signing the leftover corpse remains of Youk, after the buzzard White Sox already picked out what was left of the eyeballs and organs...deplorable.

 

Doesn't that say something about this offseason? It's a crap pool of FAs so everybody is holding on to their good guys. Like 5 teams have actually done something interesting. Granted I wish we were one of them but I'm not quite ready to label Hahn a p****. Not quite...

[fathom]

My choice for back-up catcher, George Kottaras, was DFA'd by the A's today

Edited January 17, 2013 by fathom

[Balta1701]

My choice for back-up catcher, George Kottaras, was DFA'd by the A's today

Left or righty?

[fathom]

Left or righty?

 

Lefty

[Balta1701]

Lefty

I'm in without even looking at his stats.

[chw42]

I'm in without even looking at his stats.

 

He's a walks machine. At one point last year, he was hitting .200, but had a .400+ OBP.

[fathom]

He's a walks machine. At one point last year, he was hitting .200, but had a .400+ OBP.

 

Yep, Flowers-esque in his power/on base ability

[chw42]

Yep, Flowers-esque in his power/on base ability

 

Flowers has more power, but Kotarras has better plate discipline.

[Eminor3rd]

My choice for back-up catcher, George Kottaras, was DFA'd by the A's today

 

Yeah that's almost TOO perfect. Rick better have already made that call.

[chw42]

Yeah that's almost TOO perfect. Rick better have already made that call.

 

He's a great backup and backup plan in case Flowers sucks.

 

Now my question is why would an organization like the A's get rid of him?

Edited January 17, 2013 by chw42

[Eminor3rd]

He's a great backup and backup plan in case Flowers sucks.

 

Now my question is why would an organization like the A's get rid of him?

 

Well they just got John Jaso to split time with Norris: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/mari...th-nats-as.html

[fathom]

He's a great backup and backup plan in case Flowers sucks.

 

Now my question is why would an organization like the A's get rid of him?

 

Cause they traded for Jaso today, who is a monster against RHP

[chw42]

Well they just got John Jaso to split time with Norris: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/mari...th-nats-as.html

 

Oh I was unaware.

[gosox41]

What should the fans punishment be for "not showing up"?

 

 

Payroll reduction and a lack of moves due to financial inflexibility. We're seeing it right now. That way these whiny fans can whine some more but instead of hearing about how uninspiring the team is and how 'they knew' the Sox weren't going to the playoffs, we can hear how greedy and cheap Sox ownership is for not shelling out more money, even if it's been proven the customer won't show until all the starts align just right...and even then it's a big maybe because it could be too hot, too cold, the grass is cut too short, the trainer is too fat and that is offensive, there's no dynamic personality, or the dybamic personality is a selfish a-hole, etc.

 

 

 

Bob

[bhawk99]

Maybe some of us "whiny" fans simply realize that the already loaded Tigers became even tougher to beat during this off season and the Sox didn't. Do you really feel that adding Keppinger and losing AJ made us a better club? We will still support our team but in the back of our minds we know that making the playoffs with this current lineup even as a wildcard is a longshot.

[witesoxfan]

Maybe some of us "whiny" fans simply realize that the already loaded Tigers became even tougher to beat during this off season and the Sox didn't. Do you really feel that adding Keppinger and losing AJ made us a better club? We will still support our team but in the back of our minds we know that making the playoffs with this current lineup even as a wildcard is a longshot.

 

Then I ask for the fortieth time, what would you have done differently? Who would you have added?

 

I feel that Hahn has played it close to the vest with regard to expenditures so they can make a move come midseason to improve the club if necessary while they can also sell pieces off if they don't. The Sox can't spend money frivolously right now like Mike Illitch can (because he doesn't give a f***).

 

Personally, I feel like next year's club could be as good if not better, but I so happen to be a believer in Tyler Flowers while you obviously do not.

[PorkChopExpress]

Then I ask for the fortieth time, what would you have done differently? Who would you have added?

 

I feel that Hahn has played it close to the vest with regard to expenditures so they can make a move come midseason to improve the club if necessary while they can also sell pieces off if they don't. The Sox can't spend money frivolously right now like Mike Illitch can (because he doesn't give a f***).

 

Personally, I feel like next year's club could be as good if not better, but I so happen to be a believer in Tyler Flowers while you obviously do not.

 

This is what I was thinking back in early December. Trade Floyd + Viciedo to the Rangers for Mike Olt and low level prospect(s) (not too unreasonable, I think, but maybe I'm crazy). Trade Alexei to whoever is looking for a SS for high level prospect or mid level prospects. Move Gordo to SS (his college position) and put Keppinger at 2B. Sign Hamilton to 5/$125K. That adds around $9M to payroll for 2013, and leaves the lineup as:

 

 

 

De Aza – L – CF/LF

 

Keppinger – R – 2B

 

Hamilton - L - CF/LF

 

Dunn - L – DH

 

Rios – R – RF

 

Konerko – R – 1B

 

Olt – R – 3B

 

Flowers – R – C

 

Beckham – R – SS

 

Rotation - Sale, Peavy, Danks, Quintana, Santiago/other

 

Bullpen - Jones, Reed, Crain, Thornton (or trade him as well for salary relief to whoever will take him), farm guys/scrap heap FA's.

 

Obviously, I'm not privy to the Sox budget, and who knows if the Rangers want to make that trade, but it was what I was thinking.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

________

 

That being said, over the past few days, I have come to accept this team, and even begun to look forward to this season again. I'm looking forward to see what this year holds for Flowers, Beckham and Viciedo, Flowers in particular. He's been clamoring for the starting role, and now it is his. He seems like the kind of personality that wants to prove he deserved it. Plus those minor league numbers - wow. I want to see if Peavy gets better after another full year since his surgery. I think Dunn returns to career norms this year, i.e., a BA of 220-.230, which hopefully carries over to improvements in his other stat cats. as well. Rios stays good this year. De Aza continues to prove he could have been a star had he not broken his leg years ago. Ramirez - eh. I've never been a huge fan - status quo. Keppinger - grindy. Konerko - more like end of last year and not beginning, but still solid. Sale - Cy Young. Danks - won't start the season with the team but will be a boost in May and he'll be dying to compete. Floyd - contract year.

 

Anyway, I've been waiting and hoping for Hahn to do something because I felt this team needed a change. Hahn appears to be taking the calm and collected approach, and after thinking on it, I'm on board. Let's see what these guys have got. At worst, we suck and institute changes mid-year. At best, it's a magical year and everything clicks and goes our way. More than likely, we're in between, but we answer some questions about some young guys, and see if vets like Rios, Dunn and Peavy increase their value as potential trade pieces (assuming in the middle means competitive, but not headed to the post-season). Anyways, I'm just officially saying I'm off the "Do something, Rick!" wagon. I've accepted his methods. He's not rash. He is going to be a good GM. Let's get on with some baseball.

 

 

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Thank you. A critic who finally stepped up and put themself out there. I think there are some problems with it - primarily the Olt deal (I think the value is fine, I just don't think Texas would have accepted it, preferring to deal Olt as part of a package for a great player) as well as playing Beckham at SS - he has good range at 2B which generally translates to OK range at SS. But I do thank you for sticking your neck out there. It's not empty criticisms of a front office doing nothing with no other viable suggested solution.