Rick Hahn

[oldsox]

1) Chicago media market

2) Unique position of the team having ownership rights of its television provider and having the future ability to take advantage of the explosion in local/regional sports network contracts

3) Cross-marketing with the Bulls

4) Weakness of AL Central for most of its history with a few recent exceptions, but lower payrolls compared to AL East and West

5) Rich and long history of the franchise in Chicago

6) Television ratings are decent despite softer attendance

7) Team still quite profitable in terms of producing overall revenues

Then why can't the White Sox get a third baseman?

[Dick Allen]

Just another day and again no moves to improve this team by Rick Hahn. I guess he will just be happy to just finish ahead of the Indians, Twins and maybe the Royals. Some of Kenny's moves were questionable but at least he tried to make this team more competitive with the Tigers. Hey Rick, grow a set and do something just to let us know you are still alive.

What was Kenny's big move last offseason?

[caulfield12]

Then why can't the White Sox get a third baseman?

 

 

Because he's learned not to get desperate and overpay in the offseason when everyone is looking for players.

 

Keppinger will be fine for this season. Acquiring someone like David Wright or Headley would have been prohibitively expensive.

 

And, in order to acquire that player, he'd have to trade a big part of the future away...so it becomes more of a "wait and see" year. Most would probably agree we're at least 2 impact players from being able to compete with the Tigers...

Edited January 12, 2013 by caulfield12

[maggsmaggs]

Just another day and again no moves to improve this team by Rick Hahn. I guess he will just be happy to just finish ahead of the Indians, Twins and maybe the Royals. Some of Kenny's moves were questionable but at least he tried to make this team more competitive with the Tigers. Hey Rick, grow a set and do something just to let us know you are still alive.

I am not sure why people think it is easy for Rick Hahn to make moves.

 

1) We don't have much money to play with in free agency, so he really can't acquire anyway using that method.

2) We don't have a deep minor league system to deal for a proven veteran.

3) We don't really have that many valuable assets on the ML team. We have old veterans making a lot of dough who are not that attractive for other organization and we don't really have the young talent that teams pine over.

[Marty34]

As crappy as your arguments and waffling has been in this thread, I have kept my opinions to myself because you seem to think the mods/admins are picking on you for some reason other than your irrational, knee-jerk responses. But you sir, have reached a new low as this retort is one of the most condescending, rude remarks that I have seen on Soxtalk in recent memory.

 

I apologize for the remark.

[Marty34]

I am not sure why people think it is easy for Rick Hahn to make moves.

 

1) We don't have much money to play with in free agency, so he really can't acquire anyway using that method.

2) We don't have a deep minor league system to deal for a proven veteran.

3) We don't really have that many valuable assets on the ML team. We have old veterans making a lot of dough who are not that attractive for other organization and we don't really have the young talent that teams pine over.

 

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

[kitekrazy]

If 117 days in first place isn't enough for fans to go to games, what is? How many years of winning are enough? Also how is what happened in 1982 relevant to what is going on in 2013?

 

There is really no answer for that, is there? This is a mystery. Maybe Wrigley Field is more popular than baseball in Chicago. Maybe Hahn thinks silence is a good thing. Maybe contract talks are too open with the "we can only keep player X if fans show up".

 

I would say the talks among fans about losing players outweighs how long they keep a player. That's the Bill Wirtz model. Doom and gloom.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

There is really no answer for that, is there? This is a mystery. Maybe Wrigley Field is more popular than baseball in Chicago. Maybe Hahn thinks silence is a good thing. Maybe contract talks are too open with the "we can only keep player X if fans show up".

 

I would say the talks among fans about losing players outweighs how long they keep a player. That's the Bill Wirtz model. Doom and gloom.

 

 

It's not the whole reason but i think part of it is the structure of the team. They don't have very much homegrown young, exciting talent. Now to get those things, teams generally go through growing pains in the process. For the White Sox, this would mean 10,000 fans per night during this process. This is a crazy thought and has close to a 0% chance of happening ,but if 3 years from now the Sox OF of Thompson, Walker, and Hawkins is one of the better ones in baseball, and Viciedo is a solid 30 HR per year guy, the Sox could easily draw 30,000 fans per night. I know there is a very slim chance that any of this happens but young, impact stars would make a huge difference.

[bhawk99]

I am not sure why people think it is easy for Rick Hahn to make moves.

 

1) We don't have much money to play with in free agency, so he really can't acquire anyway using that method.

2) We don't have a deep minor league system to deal for a proven veteran.

3) We don't really have that many valuable assets on the ML team. We have old veterans making a lot of dough who are not that attractive for other organization and we don't really have the young talent that teams pine over.

So are you saying we should just settle for a none serious season long contending team on opening day and be happy if we catch a few breaks and maybe win 85 games again? You might be contend to sit back and watch Detroit and KC get better while our off season has been a wash, we get Keppinger and lose AJ. We all hope that Danks will start the season on the opening day roster but that is not a given. Like I said previously not all of Kenny's moves were successful but at least he had the nuts to pull the trigger on deals that he though could make the team better. So far Rick Hahn has done nothing creative with the same limited resources Kenny had to show alot of us diehard Sox fans that he is serious about winning this winnable division. Of course Dunn could cut his strikeouts down to under 100, Beckham finally could hit like he belongs in the major leagues, maybe Thornton will not lose double digit games again, maybe The Tank will stop swinging at pitches that are way outside of the strike zone, just maybe the entire team will actually learn how to bunt and who knows this year we will might actually score a runner from third with less then 2 outs on a regualr basis. There's a chance Flowers will hit his weight and not his career ave of .205. That sure is alot of if's. If all that happens then Rick Hahn was right by not making any major moves. The chances of all that happening isn't to good so I say lets ket the rest of the division know that we are serious about competing this season and do something that will make us obviously better.

[caulfield12]

So are you saying we should just settle for a none serious season long contending team on opening day and be happy if we catch a few breaks and maybe win 85 games again? You might be contend to sit back and watch Detroit and KC get better while our off season has been a wash, we get Keppinger and lose AJ. We all hope that Danks will start the season on the opening day roster but that is not a given. Like I said previously not all of Kenny's moves were successful but at least he had the nuts to pull the trigger on deals that he though could make the team better. So far Rick Hahn has done nothing creative with the same limited resources Kenny had to show alot of us diehard Sox fans that he is serious about winning this winnable division. Of course Dunn could cut his strikeouts down to under 100, Beckham finally could hit like he belongs in the major leagues, maybe Thornton will not lose double digit games again, maybe The Tank will stop swinging at pitches that are way outside of the strike zone, just maybe the entire team will actually learn how to bunt and who knows this year we will might actually score a runner from third with less then 2 outs on a regualr basis. There's a chance Flowers will hit his weight and not his career ave of .205. That sure is alot of if's. If all that happens then Rick Hahn was right by not making any major moves. The chances of all that happening isn't to good so I say lets ket the rest of the division know that we are serious about competing this season and do something that will make us obviously better.

 

The difference isn't that great. It's usually just one or two moves. But consistently hitting the mark is impossible in predicting stocks or making "winning" trades year after year after year.

 

Flip Victor Martinez for Adam Dunn in 2011, the Sox have a MUCH better shot of competing.

Flip Thome (not going to the Twins) for Kotsay/Jones in 2010.

Last year, they did about as much as humanly possible with Youkilis, Myers and Liriano and it just didn't quite work out in the end.

 

On paper, the Tigers win the division 90%+ of the time if it was a computer simulation.

 

As currently comprised, this team is still at least 2 impact players away, and we can't mortgage our future, nor should we...if Paul Konerko is gone after 2013, they're going to have to find someone to market, and the plan won't be "come out and see Adam Dunn and Alex Rios play in their final seasons for the White Sox." Maybe it's Sale, Viciedo, Thompson or Hawkins, but we have to develop our own superstar-caliber player internally. We can't afford to go out and buy that player on the open market until the new local broadcasting contract comes up for renewal with a huge influx of new revenue.

[bhawk99]

The difference isn't that great. It's usually just one or two moves. But consistently hitting the mark is impossible in predicting stocks or making "winning" trades year after year after year.

 

Flip Victor Martinez for Adam Dunn in 2011, the Sox have a MUCH better shot of competing.

Flip Thome (not going to the Twins) for Kotsay/Jones in 2010.

Last year, they did about as much as humanly possible with Youkilis, Myers and Liriano and it just didn't quite work out in the end.

 

On paper, the Tigers win the division 90%+ of the time if it was a computer simulation.

 

As currently comprised, this team is still at least 2 impact players away, and we can't mortgage our future, nor should we...if Paul Konerko is gone after 2013, they're going to have to find someone to market, and the plan won't be "come out and see Adam Dunn and Alex Rios play in their final seasons for the White Sox." Maybe it's Sale, Viciedo, Thompson or Hawkins, but we have to develop our own superstar-caliber player internally. We can't afford to go out and buy that player on the open market until the new local broadcasting contract comes up for renewal with a huge influx of new revenue.

I agree were about 1 or 2 good moves from seriously contending. And I agree as the rosters stand now the Tigers are about a 90% favorite to win the division. Then do we just concede the division this season and just go through the motions and lose more fans or do we do what is needed to give the Tigers a serious run at the title and not worry that we have to save some young players for the seasons down the road. I say we worry about 2015 in 2015 and make the moves now that will give us the best shot to win now.

[caulfield12]

I agree were about 1 or 2 good moves from seriously contending. And I agree as the rosters stand now the Tigers are about a 90% favorite to win the division. Then do we just concede the division this season and just go through the motions and lose more fans or do we do what is needed to give the Tigers a serious run at the title and not worry that we have to save some young players for the seasons down the road. I say we worry about 2015 in 2015 and make the moves now that will give us the best shot to win now.

 

That's all fine and good, but overpaying for the likes of Nick Swisher and Edwin Jackson has gotten us where?

 

In a pretty difficult bind.

 

Same thing with adding Dunn coming into 2011 when that seemed like a pretty logical move to take us over the top.

 

Like most of the past decade, you'd have to guess the front office to see where they are with the roster at midseason...if Verlander and Scherzer both pitch like Cy Young winners, they suffer no major injuries and the back end of the Detroit bullpen can stand up, a huge/risky trade alone won't be enough.

 

Like it or not, we're just with "wait and see" until some of the younger position players develop.

[YASNY]

That's all fine and good, but overpaying for the likes of Nick Swisher and Edwin Jackson has gotten us where?

 

In a pretty difficult bind.

 

Same thing with adding Dunn coming into 2011 when that seemed like a pretty logical move to take us over the top.

 

Like most of the past decade, you'd have to guess the front office to see where they are with the roster at midseason...if Verlander and Scherzer both pitch like Cy Young winners, they suffer no major injuries and the back end of the Detroit bullpen can stand up, a huge/risky trade alone won't be enough.

 

Like it or not, we're just with "wait and see" until some of the younger position players develop.

 

In 1983 we won the division, then added Tom Seaver. In 2005 we won the World Series, then added Jim Thome. Great plans, but nothing is guaranteed.

 

[chisoxt]

I am not sure why people think it is easy for Rick Hahn to make moves.

 

1) We don't have much money to play with in free agency, so he really can't acquire anyway using that method.

2) We don't have a deep minor league system to deal for a proven veteran.

3) We don't really have that many valuable assets on the ML team. We have old veterans making a lot of dough who are not that attractive for other organization and we don't really have the young talent that teams pine over.

Exactly. My hope was the Sox would have made a GM move two years ago. By delaying the process, it only made it more difficult for a 'build from the ground up' guy like Hahn. This will take a while, folks.

 

[southsider2k5]

Exactly. My hope was the Sox would have made a GM move two years ago. By delaying the process, it only made it more difficult for a 'build from the ground up' guy like Hahn. This will take a while, folks.

 

This process started last winter, not this one. 2011 was just like 2012's off season.

[Tannerfan]

Historicaly I tend to be pretty pessimistic when it comes to the White Sox, but I feel pretty good about this team.

I'm sure most people on this board and especially in this thread will consider me a fool but I believe young players can improve. Dyan Viciedo has the ability to turn into a top flight hitter.

Rios can repeat what he did last year. Konerko with his wrist repaired can still be a very impactful power hitter, etc etc.

Our pitching staff has the potential to be as good if not better than the 05 staff. I think the defense will be excellent, and I have great faith in Ventura and his staff based on last year.

I'm looking forward to this season and I think we will contend.

[Balta1701]

The pitching will not be better than 05.

 

They just won't.

[Tannerfan]

The pitching will not be better than 05.

 

They just won't.

 

I wrote as good if not better.

They just will.

[Balta1701]

I wrote as good if not better.

They just will.

That 2005 rotation was incredible.

 

There is just no way these guys are going to pull that off.

[LittleHurt05]

That 2005 rotation was incredible.

 

There is just no way these guys are going to pull that off.

 

The entire pitching staff's ERA was 3.61. Since 1972, they have only matched that ERA twice. (3.47 in '81 & 3.61 in '90).

[Balta1701]

The entire pitching staff's ERA was 3.61. Since 1972, they have only matched that ERA twice. (3.47 in '81 & 3.61 in '90).

That was also right during the steroid era, in a home run hittinig ballpark. Their team ERA+ was 125. For comparison, Mark Buehrle's career ERA+ is 119.

 

Think about that. As a whole, the 2005 starting rotation pitched "Better than Mark Buehrle in a normal year".

 

The best ERA+ in the league last year was Tampa, at 120.

 

That's the best ERA+ in baseball since 2003. It's been 9 season since any team put together that good of a pitching campaign. The last team that was better? The 2003 Dodgers...with their part human, part testosterone injection closer.

 

I'm finding it amazing looking at how good that pitching staff really was compared to the rest of the league for the last decade.

[Tannerfan]

That 2005 rotation was incredible.

 

There is just no way these guys are going to pull that off.

 

Here's my hope:

 

Sale=Buehrle

Peavy=Contreras

Danks=Garland

Floyd=Garcia

Quintana/Santiago=Hernandez/McCarthy

 

Sale will be better then Mark was.

Floyd equals Garcia is my one close your eyes and hope.

 

I never liked Journey, but "Don't Stop Believing"

 

Also people forget that for the first half of 05 Shingo was our closer.

[Balta1701]

Also people forget that for the first half of 05 Shingo was our closer.

Shingo had lost the closer's position by May. Hermanson was the closer for the majority of the season, and he was incredible until his back went out.

[Tannerfan]

Shingo had lost the closer's position by May. Hermanson was the closer for the majority of the season, and he was incredible until his back went out.

 

I hate when facts get in the way of my argument.

[caulfield12]

Here's my hope:

 

Sale=Buehrle

Peavy=Contreras

Danks=Garland

Floyd=Garcia

Quintana/Santiago=Hernandez/McCarthy

 

Sale will be better then Mark was.

Floyd equals Garcia is my one close your eyes and hope.

 

I never liked Journey, but "Don't Stop Believing"

 

Also people forget that for the first half of 05 Shingo was our closer.

 

 

That would actually require Peavy beating the Tigers, well, how about just once, no, actually, three or four times and winning 16 consecutive decisions.

 

Trayce Thompson is more likely to win AL Rookie of the Year in 2013.

Edited January 14, 2013 by caulfield12