TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 11:15 AM) Thank you. A critic who finally stepped up and put themself out there. I think there are some problems with it - primarily the Olt deal (I think the value is fine, I just don't think Texas would have accepted it, preferring to deal Olt as part of a package for a great player) as well as playing Beckham at SS - he has good range at 2B which generally translates to OK range at SS. But I do thank you for sticking your neck out there. It's not empty criticisms of a front office doing nothing with no other viable suggested solution. Beckham doesn't have good range. Trading Ramirez to put Beckham at SS is one of the worst ideas of the off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 12:26 PM) Beckham doesn't have good range. Trading Ramirez to put Beckham at SS is one of the worst ideas of the off season. It would depend a bit on what you got back...you'd have to have some team really overpay for Alexei to make it worth while... But that's sorta been the problem with every proposed trade/every comment about why Hahn hasn't moved someone...we're waiting on teams to overpay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 This off season was a bad one for the Sox. The positions of strength were the places the Sox didn't really need help, and the spots that were weakest were the exact one the Sox needed help in. I'm not positive that the trade market is dead yet, but I guess we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) It would depend a bit on what you got back...you'd have to have some team really overpay for Alexei to make it worth while... But that's sorta been the problem with every proposed trade/every comment about why Hahn hasn't moved someone...we're waiting on teams to overpay. I hate speculating about a player's value. Typically, us message board experts are completely wrong. Nevertheless, I'd imagine Ramirez doesn't have a whole lot of value on the trade market due to his age and subpar season. He's a classic case of being more valuable to the Sox than to other teams. Ultimately, this team is going to win or lose on their pitching and defense. Trading a player with a history of being good to very good and replacing him with a player who has a history of being bad to very bad doesn't help the team now, or in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) Beckham doesn't have good range. Trading Ramirez to put Beckham at SS is one of the worst ideas of the off season. I think you are mistaken here. He goes into the outfield to throw guys out and ranges far behind second to do the same. I'm not sure if it would be great at SS but to say he doesn't have good range, is a little harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 g QUOTE (ptatc @ Jabn 17, 2013 -> 12:58 PM) I think you are mistaken here. He goes into the outfield to throw guys out and ranges far behind second to do the same. I'm not sure if it would be great at SS but to say he doesn't have good range, is a little harsh. His range is what separates him from being a good defender to an excellent defender. He doesn't move well laterally. He does go back on balls well. Where he really excels is turning the double play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) I hate speculating about a player's value. Typically, us message board experts are completely wrong. Nevertheless, I'd imagine Ramirez doesn't have a whole lot of value on the trade market due to his age and subpar season. He's a classic case of being more valuable to the Sox than to other teams. Ultimately, this team is going to win or lose on their pitching and defense. Trading a player with a history of being good to very good and replacing him with a player who has a history of being bad to very bad doesn't help the team now, or in the future. You're 100% right. And the problem for the Sox this offseason is that they're loaded with guys who are more valuable to them than to other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) g His range is what separates him from being a good defender to an excellent defender. He doesn't move well laterally. He does go back on balls well. Where he really excels is turning the double play. I know I can't really ask for reliable "proof" here but that's not what I see at all. I think he goes back exceptionally well and laterally very well. A lot of balls I feel like would sneak through most infields because of their trajectory towards 2b, he ends up snagging or at least knocking down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 We better start adding pieces to this team soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 As of today, this team will be lucky to win 72 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) As of today, this team will be lucky to win 72 games Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:24 PM) Why? Why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:15 PM) As of today, this team will be lucky to win 72 games As of today, this team will be lucky to win 100 games See? Works both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 05:24 PM) Why? Clearly, the sum of the move from AJ to Flowers + the move from Morel/Hudson/Youkilis to Keppinger = negative 13 wins, if we're lucky. Nobody will improve, everyone had career years last year. God, Hahn is the worst. Why did he do this to us!? /green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) Clearly, the sum of the move from AJ to Flowers + the move from Morel/Hudson/Youkilis to Keppinger = negative 13 wins, if we're lucky. Nobody will improve, everyone had career years last year. God, Hahn is the worst. Why did he do this to us!? /green If only I could be as optimistic as you. I don't see this team winning more than 42 games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettie4sox Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 There way tooooo many crybaby whiners on soxtalk. I bet the same people who were b****ing last year are the same people b****ing this year. Give it a f***ing rest people! Sit down and enjoy the ride people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:52 PM) Clearly, the sum of the move from AJ to Flowers + the move from Morel/Hudson/Youkilis to Keppinger = negative 13 wins, if we're lucky. Nobody will improve, everyone had career years last year. God, Hahn is the worst. Why did he do this to us!? /green John Danks= -44.7 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Why? We got weaken at C, 3B and our bench. While other teams in our divison added key pieces to their team Besides Dunn we have no left handed power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 And last year we actually underperformed based on our run differential. Our Pythagorean record was 88 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) We got weaken at C, 3B and our bench. While other teams in our divison added key pieces to their team Besides Dunn we have no left handed power Third base will most definitely be an upgrade from last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 We should trade for (insert teams best prospects) with (insert multiple mediocre unheard of prospects) and (player i dont like) and (decent player). And we should have spent (large sum of money) in free agency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:56 PM) We got weaken at C, 3B and our bench. While other teams in our divison added key pieces to their team Besides Dunn we have no left handed power We did not get weaker at 3B when you take the sum of the entire season. Same with the bench. I am also betting money that AJ does nothing near what he did in 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 02:57 PM) We should trade for (insert teams best prospects) with (insert multiple mediocre unheard of prospects) and (player i dont like) and (decent player). And we should have spent (large sum of money) in free agency Here's the guide. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 (edited) We did not get weaker at 3B when you take the sum of the entire season. Same with the bench. I am also betting money that AJ does nothing near what he did in 2012. Who are our bench players? I've no faith that Wise will have a decent year or even make the team Edited January 17, 2013 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 03:02 PM) Who are bench players? I've no faith that Wise will have a decent year or even make the team Who was our bench last year? Jose Lopez? Rey Olmedo? Orlando Hudson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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