General Questions About Baseball

[iamshack]

This is a good question--I'll do my best to explain it.

 

Since first base, for example, requires a little less quickness and athleticism, you often get a lot of power hitters emerge at the position. So, the average first baseman might have a rather high slugging percentage, compared to, say, a shortstop or second baseman.

 

The question is about value--if you have someone at shortstop, or second base, or catcher with great power, that's a huge upgrade--it's power from an unexpected position. A .280, 25 homer season from a first baseman might be seen as somewhat pedestrian because it's close to the average for a first baseman, whereas if you got that from a middle infielder, it's a huge bonus.

 

You see this debate unfold when talking about a great-hitting catcher like Buster Posey. His numbers are tremendous for a catcher! But, if/when he moves to first base, his value could drop because that kind of production from first base would be expected. He could be blocking a good-hitting first baseman. Posey at catcher + average-hitting first baseman would be better production than average-hitting catcher + Posey at first base.

Ultimately, you can only put 9 players in your lineup at any given time. These players have to serve two purposes: offense and defense. The goal is to find the optimal mix of players to produce the best result both offensively and defensively for your club. This may be influenced by your pitching staff and your home field, as well.

 

As others have said, there are certain defensive positions, such as catcher, second base, shortstop, and center field, which are considered to be more important than others because of their relative positions on a baseball diamond and number of balls put in play towards them. Therefore, the players chosen to play those positions are typically going to have the skills requisite to succeed there...speed, agility,good hands.

 

If you can have players that serve both purposes, offense and defense, in positions that are traditionally very defense-centric, you are really putting yourself in a position of strength.

 

Constructing the optimal baseball lineup is NOT a zero-sum game. Having a player that plays a defense-centric position that also excels at offense does not take away anything from any other position defensively or offensively. Therefore, by having players at defense-centric positions that also excel offensively, you are allowing yourself to constuct a more optimal lineup than most others because most players that play up the middle are going to produce less from an offensive standpoint.

 

This might be similar to having a soccer player who is strong defensively but is also very talented offensively. Ultimately, players with both skills are very valuable and highly-coveted, so the more of them you have on the field at one time, the better.

Edited April 4, 2013 by iamshack

[ScottyDo]

Ultimately, you can only put 9 players in your lineup at any given time. These players have to serve two purposes: offense and defense. The goal is to find the optimal mix of players to produce the best result both offensively and defensively for your club. This may be influenced by your pitching staff and your home field, as well.

 

As others have said, there are certain defensive positions, such as catcher, second base, shortstop, and center field, which are considered to be more important than others because of their relative positions on a baseball diamond and number of balls put in play towards them. Therefore, the players chosen to play those positions are typically going to have the skills requisite to exceed there...speed, agility,good hands.

 

If you can have players that serve both purposes, offense and defense, in positions that are traditionally very defense-centric, you are really putting yourself in a position of strength.

 

Constructing the optimal baseball lineup is NOT a zero-sum game. Having a player that plays a defense-centric position that also excels at offense does not take away anything from any other position defensively or offensively. Therefore, by having players at defense-centric positions that also excel offensively, you are allowing yourself to constuct a more optimal lineup than most others because most players that play up the middle are going to produce less from an offensive standpoint.

 

This might be similar to having a soccer player who is strong defensively but is also very talented offensively. Ultimately, players with both skills are very valuable and highly-coveted, so the more of them you have on the field at one time, the better.

I always view it as a game of attrition. As a prospect progresses through the development system, you're really looking for offense, but you're only willing to accept a certain level of mediocrity defensively before you have to find another position. As you progress from level to level, the defensive bar gets higher.

 

So let's say you come out of high school as a shortstop because you were the best athlete at your school, you're moderately fast and have a great arm, and you have tons of power. You go to college and there are 3 other guys like you but two of them are quicker defenders than you. They still want your bat, but they're not willing to put up with a mediocre range from their shortstop so they move you to 3b where your range isn't so important, but your arm is. They still get to have your bat and your defensive shortcomings are masked because your position is less demanding. You get drafted and play in the minors, but now you're in professional baseball so everyone is really freaking good. Now there are other guys in your system who successfully played shortstop in college but are moving to 3b, and they're better than you. But you've still got power so they still want you, and relative to these other pros you're a lumbering ox, even though you were the best in high school. So they're going to stick you at 1b where you will be considered an acceptable defender, and your power is what made it worth it.

 

If you go through the same process, but with less offensive output and equal defense, you probably get cut or don't get drafted at all.

 

If you go through the same process with less offensive output but better defense, you might end up at 2b or 3b.

 

Everybody goes through a similar filtration process where you get moved down the defensive totem pole (or up if you want to get technical about how totem poles work) or removed from the system based on offensive output as the concentration of talent increases. That explains some of what you see in the majors.

[witesoxfan]

There is really only 1 sport where offensive players' requirements doesn't involve playing defense, and that's football. Football is 100% the most specialized sport in all of American sports, and that is likely true internationally too, though I'm not familiar with every sport around the world.

[iamshack]

There is really only 1 sport where offensive players' requirements doesn't involve playing defense, and that's football. Football is 100% the most specialized sport in all of American sports, and that is likely true internationally too, though I'm not familiar with every sport around the world.

Umm, clearly you aren't familiar with gof...

[ScottyDo]

Umm, clearly you aren't familiar with gof...

Don't act like you don't jump in front of your buddies' drives when you're playing skins.

[Joxer_Daly]

Clay pigeon shooting.

 

Nothing but slaying those poor clay bastards all day long.

[Jake]

The harder the position defensively, the fewer players that can play it. If 1 out 10 professional players can hit at the big league level (I'm pulling that number out of thin air) -- everyone can play 1B, so 1 out of 10 batters can be a 1B. Let's say 1 out of 10 players can play SS, so that means hitters that play SS will be 10x as scarce. That is the simplest way to put it. There are body type and athleticism considerations at play, but the assumption is a SS could drop into any other position other than catcher if needed while a 1B would not normally have the defensive talent to play ANY other position.

 

 

[Joxer_Daly]

The harder the position defensively, the fewer players that can play it. If 1 out 10 professional players can hit at the big league level (I'm pulling that number out of thin air) -- everyone can play 1B, so 1 out of 10 batters can be a 1B. Let's say 1 out of 10 players can play SS, so that means hitters that play SS will be 10x as scarce. That is the simplest way to put it. There are body type and athleticism considerations at play, but the assumption is a SS could drop into any other position other than catcher if needed while a 1B would not normally have the defensive talent to play ANY other position.

 

And the useless c*** is the DH??

[farmteam]

And the useless c*** is the DH??

AND THAT'S A WHITE SOX WINNER!

[Jake]

And the useless c*** is the DH??

 

Haha, yes. Whoever is so f***ing talentless that he can't be the best 1B on his team DHs. I will say that I suspect our better defensive 1B (not including the reserves) is our starting DH, but yeah. If you have two 1Bs, one will be a DH. Also, you'll get guys that through age or injury like Sox great Frank Thomas that are better served as a DH only -- sometimes this is more of a team protecting its asset than anything else, though.

[witesoxfan]

Umm, clearly you aren't familiar with gof...

 

I am not.

 

There is GOLF. And you don't play directly against 1 person as you do in many other; as such, you never really play offense either. You just play.

 

[longshot7]

Joxer, I'd also heartily recommend the Ken Burns Baseball documentary miniseries - it's chock full of stuff like this and was a primer for baseball history when I was just starting to get into the game really in-depth wise.

 

Should be available streaming online somewhere I'd imagine...

[ptatc]

Clay pigeon shooting.

 

Nothing but slaying those poor clay bastards all day long.

Have you ever gotten the shards from one of those in your eye? It really stings!

[Joxer_Daly]

Joxer, I'd also heartily recommend the Ken Burns Baseball documentary miniseries - it's chock full of stuff like this and was a primer for baseball history when I was just starting to get into the game really in-depth wise.

 

Should be available streaming online somewhere I'd imagine...

 

That the ten part one for about a hundred bucks? Yeah, was looking at that alright. Hoping to get a pal to bring it home for me in the summer as the shipping adds on a crazy amount. Thanks.

[Joxer_Daly]

Have you ever gotten the shards from one of those in your eye? It really stings!

 

 

Exactly!* They're vicious little bastards and deserve to be slain mercilessly.

 

Attack! Attack! Attack!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*No, actually. Never.

[knightni]

That the ten part one for about a hundred bucks? Yeah, was looking at that alright. Hoping to get a pal to bring it home for me in the summer as the shipping adds on a crazy amount. Thanks.

You can acquire them online for less than that.

[Joxer_Daly]

You can acquire them online for less than that.

 

 

Oh? Must have a better look. I think I searched a while ago, but probably the shipping put me off. I'll have another look.

[knightni]

Oh? Must have a better look. I think I searched a while ago, but probably the shipping put me off. I'll have another look.

If you don't mind watching them on your computer instead of DVD - they're around.

[flavum]

I got one that I thought of with the homerun the other day that Alex Gordon almost caught.

 

When the ball is in the stands in foul territory, a fan can interfere with it because that's their domain.

 

Does the same hold true for homeruns? Could a guy in the Sox bullpen actually interfere as long as the ball is already past the fence line?

 

I can't imagine it's allowed, but how is it any different than a fan interfering if the ball is past the plane of the fence?

[cabiness42]

I got one that I thought of with the homerun the other day that Alex Gordon almost caught.

 

When the ball is in the stands in foul territory, a fan can interfere with it because that's their domain.

 

Does the same hold true for homeruns? Could a guy in the Sox bullpen actually interfere as long as the ball is already past the fence line?

 

I can't imagine it's allowed, but how is it any different than a fan interfering if the ball is past the plane of the fence?

 

If a ball has crossed the plane of the wall, fans have the right to interfere with the ball on a home run just the same as with a foul ball.

 

I'm not sure about players (or any other team/stadium employee) in the bullpen, but I would think they are not allowed to interfere.

[Reddy]

Oh? Must have a better look. I think I searched a while ago, but probably the shipping put me off. I'll have another look.

 

 

it's on netflix as well

[Joxer_Daly]

it's on netflix as well

 

Sorted.

[TaylorStSox]

Fantastic thread.

 

CF and SS are the "leaders" of the OF and IF. On pop ups and fly balls that 2 players have a chance at, it's their job to make the catch and call off other fielders. The IF defers to the OF because its easier to make the catch and get into position to make a throw while moving forward. RF and LF defer to CF on fly balls. All IF defer to SS. IF defer to OF.

 

When kids start playing, the majority if the time, the best athlete will play SS. The SS gets the most balls hit to him and its the most physically demanding position. The position needs the best combination of quickness, speed, arm and glovework.

 

One of the many beautiful things about baseball is that you never stop learning. It's truly unique.

[southsider2k5]

How about a situation in which the defense never puts a glove/hand to the ball... yet they record three outs in an unassisted fashion?

 

Runners passing each other on the basepaths?

[Pants Rowland]

I am not.

 

There is GOLF. And you don't play directly against 1 person as you do in many other; as such, you never really play offense either. You just play.

 

In Scotland, they call it "Gof", without the "L"