southsider2k5 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 12, 2013 -> 09:48 PM) Agreed. The sad thing will be if they also do an about face on any of the guys that were passed this year. I'd dislike seeing him go in alongside Sosa or Bonds. I would see some writers making certain Frank enters ahead of those guys. I just realized he's about the first player I really have cared about being in the Hall. I think this is a process to be played out over years. First the "worthy" guys get in, then they soften and change on the "bad" guys. They will use most of the 15 years of eligibility up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord chas Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 If Frank Thomas is not a first ballot hall of famer then i don't know who is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 QUOTE (lord chas @ Jan 13, 2013 -> 12:57 PM) If Frank Thomas is not a first ballot hall of famer then i don't know who is Greg Maddux, who is going in next year and might get more attention than Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2013 -> 12:36 PM) Greg Maddux, who is going in next year and might get more attention than Frank. Frank's my favorite player ever, but I'd choose Maddux over him if I had to pick only 1. Either way I'll be really upset if either one doesn't make it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Maddux Thomas Mussina Glavine My rank order votes for next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian26 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 i wonder if you can be such an average pitcher and rack up 300 wins, why more non hall of fame pitchers haven't managed to do that? It seems pretty easy. Just look at the list of average players with similar stats. You'd think a few more of them would have over at least 200 wins. I'm not disagreeing with you, but Glavine's career happened to coincide with an Atlanta Braves' run where they were the best team in baseball cumulatively over a 12-year period. If Glavine isn't pitching on the Braves for those years, he has many fewer wins and probably never would have reached 300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 QUOTE (Brian26 @ Jan 13, 2013 -> 03:54 PM) I'm not disagreeing with you, but Glavine's career happened to coincide with an Atlanta Braves' run where they were the best team in baseball cumulatively over a 12-year period. If Glavine isn't pitching on the Braves for those years, he has many fewer wins and probably never would have reached 300. Was that Braves run because they had an offense carrying then or because they had a pitching staff carrying them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Oh yea, I think Frank is a first ballot HOF'er. But I heard some idiot on ESPN hinting that he thinks Thomas was on steroids and he should not get in the HOF. So you never know, a lot of dumbasses have a HOF vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jan 13, 2013 -> 03:08 PM) Oh yea, I think Frank is a first ballot HOF'er. But I heard some idiot on ESPN hinting that he thinks Thomas was on steroids and he should not get in the HOF. So you never know, a lot of dumbasses have a HOF vote. An idiot on ESPN ... imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHammer Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 11:21 PM) Tom Glavine has 305 wins, but he also has a career 3.95 FIP, which would put him in the following group (3.85-to-3.99 range) Tom Candiotti Mark Langston Danny Darwin Mike Flanagan Dennis Martinez Jimmy Key Chuck Finley David Wells Jack McDowell Kevin Millwood Derek Lowe Javier Vazquez John Lackey I only looked at starters with a career WAR of 30 or better. Glavine does not impress me. He might be the most overrated SP of the past quarter century. Those wins throw people off, and then some. You can't just say Glavine is similar to thee guys because they have the same FIP. Its not an end all statistic. And obviously it overrates guys who get a lot of strikeouts and underrates guys who are good at getting hitters off balance and getting them to consistently hit fieldable balls in play. Which is what Glavine was. Obviously when a stat puts Glavine in the same sentence with Javier Vazquez you know the stat can be misleading with certain players. Glavine is obviously one of those guys. Glavine was significantly better than every single guy you listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 QUOTE (Brian26 @ Jan 13, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) I'm not disagreeing with you, but Glavine's career happened to coincide with an Atlanta Braves' run where they were the best team in baseball cumulatively over a 12-year period. If Glavine isn't pitching on the Braves for those years, he has many fewer wins and probably never would have reached 300. True. But we run into the chicken and egg debate. Are teams with future hall of fame players more likely to win a lot of games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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